Florida is Not redy for Government Controlled Healthcare

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Florida is Not redy for Government Controlled Healthcare

Karen Parker
Real Estate Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2008 · 456 posts · 42 votes

Ruckus erupts at Tampa town hall meeting on health care
Friday, August 7, 2009

A town hall meeting on President Obama's health care reform proposal turned into a spectacle Thursday.

TAMPA (Bay News 9) -- A town hall meeting to talk about President Obama's health care reform proposal turned into a near-riot in Tampa on Thursday.

Hundreds of people packed into the Children's Board offices in Ybor City for the meeting sponsored by state Rep. Betty Reed and the Service Employees International Union.

But when guest speaker U.S. Rep. Kathy Castor tried to talk about health care reforms, protesters started screaming and booing, drowning her out.

"I was afraid they were going to jump on her at one time," said health care reform supporter Ann Jenkins. "They were all in her face trying to scream. What they were trying to scream and nobody knows what that was and nothing got accomplished."

"Of course, I can't pass up an opportunity to basically let my feelings be known," said health care reform protester Chris Seeger.

Sponsors closed the doors on the overflowing crowd, leaving hundreds more pounding on the doors, waiting in the halls and chanting outside.

Several people in the crowd claim they were physically attacked.

Tampa Police were called in to get the situation under control.
:roll:

Video of Thursday night's near riot is currently one of the top videos on Youtube.

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J ScottPro Member
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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
So it's ok for the Democrats to have planted, organized protests - but somehow when Republicans have a former staffer who somehow happens to be there it's a huge conspiracy.


It's okay for EITHER party to have organized rallies at public forums. I never said it wasn't. In fact, I don't think anyone here said there was an issue with that.

The part that bothers me is the need to lie about your political affiliations? The woman shouldn't have been embarrassed by her beliefs or her political party affiliations.

If the woman had said that she was a former GOP official and was still affiliated with the party, that would have been fine. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, it would have been fine if she didn't say anything about party affiliation whatsoever and just voiced her opinion.

But, instead, she went out of her way to lie about not having any affiliations. There's enough lying in politics; people should be more upset about it when it gets called out, regardless of whether it was at the executive level or the local level, and regardless of which party it is affiliated with.
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  • Karen Parker
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2008 · 456 posts · 42 votes
    17y

    Josh, is there no way to edit typos in the title?

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  • J ScottPro Member
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    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y

    I wonder if the opponents were planted by the GOP, like they did in Wisconsin:

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/grassroots-protester-actually-gop-official.php?ref=fpa

    It's sad when ANY political party is so concerned that the public won't agree with them that they feel the need to plant their own people in public forums and then lie about it.

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  • Pam Marcum
    Real Estate Investor · Wooster, OH · Member since 2009 · 42 posts · 1 vote
    17y

    Umm, though I'm sure there are some organized groups attending, I've personally run into several people in the last few days who just spontaneously say they hope there is a town hall meeting here...they can't wait to go and say what they think!!

    I'm SO GLAD they didn't vote on healthcare before summer break! Now democracy might actually have a chance to work...they are gonna get an earful while they're home, I can tell you that.

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  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Pam Marcum:
    Umm, though I'm sure there are some organized groups attending, I've personally run into several people in the last few days who just spontaneously say they hope there is a town hall meeting here...they can't wait to go and say what they think!!


    That's a good thing that people are organizing groups to attend these town hall meetings. The sad thing is when these organized groups feel the need to lie about their affiliation.

    Why say, "I'm not affiliated with any party," when clearly you are? Actually, not just affiliated, but actively involved!


    I'm SO GLAD they didn't vote on healthcare before summer break! Now democracy might actually have a chance to work...


    No doubt!

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  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    I wonder if the opponents were planted by the GOP, like they did in Wisconsin:

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/grassroots-protester-actually-gop-official.php?ref=fpa


    Full disclosure Jason. She's a former GOP official.
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  • Account Closed
    Tucson, AZ · Member since 2008 · 945 posts · 45 votes
    17y

    When the meetings are disrupted to the point that no-one can speak, no-one can be heard, that needs stopped. If those people were there to do more than stop the meeting, they would be taking turns speaking, asking questions. Those groups are there simply to shut down the meetings.
    That should not be permitted.

    The politicians need to be responsive to the people, and part of the problem is so many of us see them as being responsive only to lobbyiests and the very wealthy.
    Making noise in their face may be all we have left, but done in this manner does nothing but shut down the process, and nothing is accomplished.
    Ofgift

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  • Karen Parker
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2008 · 456 posts · 42 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    I wonder if the opponents were planted by the GOP, like they did in Wisconsin:

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/grassroots-protester-actually-gop-official.php?ref=fpa


    Full disclosure Jason. She's a former GOP official.


    Which goes back to what I have been saying all along. We're pretty much down to a one party system in this country. One group is as bad as the other. But I'm sure no one had to plant people down there since there were enough people organized to be there through the same groups that organize the tea parties. I would have been there myself but I was in the midst of making money at that time. Not that making money is a priority over defending what rights we have in this country but one must also help the pitiful economy. :mrgreen: As a matter of fact several of friends called and accused me of starting that riot :oops:

    The statement that pissed me off the most was:

    "They were all in her face trying to scream. What they were trying to scream and nobody knows what that was and nothing got accomplished."

    If they would have listened to start with, Kathy Castor would not have been here period!! We don't want this BS. Not only does she need to be screamed at but B-slapped.

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  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    I actually traveled to go to a town hall meeting for Democrat House Rep. Joe Donnelly and it was very calmly run - then again it was run on private property so it's not the same as being on public property. The only boisterous protesters there were the pro-Obamacare folks screaming and yelling for it. This is what I don't get. Joe Donnelly's already voting for this healthcare plan - why the need for protesters in favor of it screaming and yelling?

    Ok - I'll actually tell you exactly why protesters were there in favor of it. The Obama administration sent out an e-mail asking them to be there to protest for it in anticipation of opposition. Want a copy of the e-mail? I have it. So it's ok for the Democrats to have planted, organized protests - but somehow when Republicans have a former staffer who somehow happens to be there it's a huge conspiracy.

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  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    So it's ok for the Democrats to have planted, organized protests - but somehow when Republicans have a former staffer who somehow happens to be there it's a huge conspiracy.


    It's okay for EITHER party to have organized rallies at public forums. I never said it wasn't. In fact, I don't think anyone here said there was an issue with that.

    The part that bothers me is the need to lie about your political affiliations? The woman shouldn't have been embarrassed by her beliefs or her political party affiliations.

    If the woman had said that she was a former GOP official and was still affiliated with the party, that would have been fine. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, it would have been fine if she didn't say anything about party affiliation whatsoever and just voiced her opinion.

    But, instead, she went out of her way to lie about not having any affiliations. There's enough lying in politics; people should be more upset about it when it gets called out, regardless of whether it was at the executive level or the local level, and regardless of which party it is affiliated with.
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  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Jason,
    Do you have any proof that she was planted by the GOP?

    She said she had no affiliation with either party. That is true. She was a former staffer. That is a former affiliation.

    Keep trying.

    Tim

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  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    Jason,
    Do you have any proof that she was planted by the GOP?


    I don't have any proof, and it doesn't really matter to me. IMO, there's nothing wrong with parties "planting" people at rallies or public forums. So, if she was planted, great. If she wasn't, great.

    What I have a problem with is the lying about political affiliations...


    She said she had no affiliation with either party. That is true. She was a former staffer. That is a former affiliation.


    According to her LinkedIn profile (which was updated yesterday), she is a member of the following groups:

    Vice-chair, Republican Party of Kewaunee County, Executive Committee Member, 8th Congressional District Republican Party of Wisconsin, Member, Republican Party of Wisconsin, Republican National Committee

    http://www.linkedin.com/in/heatherblish

    So, while you may not consider her having an affiliation, she certainly does!

    And btw, even if she is only registered as a Republican, that's an affiliation...


    Keep trying.


    I did.

    Your turn. I have a feeling that here comes the really, really bad semantic argument that you tend to resort to because you have no substantial argument...I can feel it coming...

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  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    According to her LinkedIn profile (which was updated yesterday)


    Thanks for the source. I read her LinkedIn profile and as I suspected, it confirms that she is a former staffer who no longer is a GOP official. Association sure - affiliation (which means a heck of a lot more for a contractor), no.

    As far as that groups thing - anyone who knows how linked in operates knows you put in every group you've ever been involved in past or present on the possibility of garnering business from contacts in past groups you've been involved in. Good grief, mine has NARI and ASPE - neither of which I've been to any meeting for in over 4 years. I have no current affiliation with either group.

    This is a stupid debate though and highlights a major problem of this administration from it's campaign attacks on Joe the Plumber. The media is attacking private citizens rather than the public officials upon whom the scrutiny is SUPPOSED to be focused! Good grief, in 24 hours there's been more scrutiny about the resume of some woman named Heather than the media ever did during the campaign about Barrack Obama's resume.

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  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    in 24 hours there's been more scrutiny about the resume of some woman named Heather than the media ever did during the campaign about Barrack Obama's resume.


    Maybe Heather shouldn't have lied, in which case she wouldn't be under any scrutiny at all...


    Association sure - affiliation (which means a heck of a lot more for a contractor), no.


    Oh, and by the way, according to the Merriam Webster dictionary, "affiliation" is defined as "an association with an organization"...

    As an English major, I would have expected you to have known that...
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  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Oh, and by the way, according to the Merriam Webster dictionary, "affiliation" is defined as "an association with an organization"...


    Ok, then by your definition Obama is affiliated with domestic terrorists and racist hate mongers. Check mate. Quit making this so easy for me Jason! lol....
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  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:

    Ok, then by your definition Obama is affiliated with domestic terrorists and racist hate mongers.


    Yup, he is. I 100% agree with you on that.

    You probably are also. I probably am as well. There are lots of these types of people out there, and we associate with these types of horrible people everyday.

    Of course, hopefully our association with these people isn't to aid their terrorism or hatred, but it's hard not to be associated with bad people just by living our lives...you'd have to be living in a bubble not to be...


    Check mate. Quit making this so easy for me Jason!


    Huh? I just agreed with you 100%.

    I guess that means we completely agree on the definition of association/affiliation. Thank you for making that so easy.

    So, now that we both have agreed on that definition, it should be clear that Heather lied about her affiliation/association.

    Which was the point of this discussion. See, we agree. How easy was that?!?!

    Once again, you've done a great job of arguing with me to the point where you clearly have proven you agree with me.

    Btw, for future reference, it probably wasn't your intent, but when you take my argument and just apply it to Obama (thinking it hurts me for some reason), you're not at all refuting my argument. You're just agreeing with my argument. And you end up agreeing with the original assertion that I am making.

    Thank you for that. It nice when you admit I'm right, even if it requires you to bash Obama in the process...

    Maybe you'll get better at this debate thing in the future, and will just admit you're wrong before you start crying about Obama.

    Here are some books you might want to check out:

    http://www.bestwebbuys.com/Language_Arts-Speech-N_10017310-books.html

    Oh, and btw, instead of using the term "check mate" when you think you've won, you should use the term "mission accomplished." This way everyone will realize that you came nowhere close to winning, despite your proclamation.

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  • Adam Anderson
    General Contractor · Midland, TX · Member since 2008 · 160 posts · 24 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    I wonder if the opponents were planted by the GOP, like they did in Wisconsin:

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/grassroots-protester-actually-gop-official.php?ref=fpa

    It's sad when ANY political party is so concerned that the public won't agree with them that they feel the need to plant their own people in public forums and then lie about it.


    There is a big problem with your wondering. You have taken the story of one person in Wisconsin that had a former affiliation with the GOP and used it discount all the other protesters at these town hall meetings. Many of the politicians supporting healthcare reform have done the same thing. So instead of addressing the concerns that many citizens have many supporters have decided to turn on those protesting and bringing up concerns. The majority of Americans DO NOT approve of Obama’s approach to health care reform. Is it inconceivable that there actually those that oppose what is happening and that they are being vocal about it?
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  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Adam Anderson:

    There is a big problem with your wondering.


    There is never a problem with curiosity. Nor is there ever a problem with acting out on that curiosity by wondering.


    Is it inconceivable that there actually those that oppose what is happening and that they are being vocal about it?


    Inconceivable? How can it be inconceivable? Clearly it's happening. The link you quoted in your post (from me) is an example of it happening.

    So, obviously it's more than conceivable.

    And there's nothing wrong with it. I disagree with the approach Obama is taking towards health care, and I'm vocal about it as well. That's a good thing!

    My only question is, why does someone who has an affiliation with the GOP (even if she's just a registered Republican, that's an affiliation) disavow that affiliation when making her public argument.

    Is she embarrassed by that affiliation? Or is she lying to try to add more weight to her argument?

    Clearly it's one of those...and it would bother me just as much if she were a Democrat and disavowing her association with that party as well!
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  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Then going back to your root assertion that this Heather woman was a "plant" by virtue of her associations, this same argument makes Obama a "plant" by domestic terrorists and racist hate mongers - which is ridiculous. Good grief I thought we let this way of thinking die with McCarthy....

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  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    Then going back to your root assertion that this Heather woman was a "plant" by virtue of her associations, this same argument makes Obama a "plant" by domestic terrorists and racist hate mongers


    Wow Tim, you're inability to comprehend or make logical correlations never ceases to amaze me...

    I'd respond to your comment, but by the time I got done trying to explain to you the fallacious logic in your comment, you'd forget what we were even arguing about...

    It's just not worth it this time...you win...

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