The Wheels of Justice Grind SLOWLY

The Wheels of Justice Grind SLOWLY

Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes

People lacking experience in real estate in particular, or business in general, are typically SHOCKED to learn exactly how slow, costly and aggravating taking “legal” action against someone who clearly violated a contract, can be.

One very common misconceptions amongst some of our new investors in our loan syndications is that is someone misses a payment we just “take the property”. While it may end up that way, it can take as long as three years (state dependent) or even LONGER (bankruptcy). Further, the expense of going thru foreclosure with a determined debtor who will file multiple bankruptcies, go thru multiple attorneys, lie, create false documents, etc. has reached well over $100,000 for us. And while “theoretically” all those legal fees are charged to the seller, most often the seller has no other obtainable assets to go after. The subject property itself may have, after 3 years or more, much deferred maintenance, property taxes in default, insurance payments we covered, etc. and we’re often lucky to escape at break even.

As a result we find it much to our advantage to try to secure a “deed in lieu” from the borrower. This puts the ownership in our name, and the entire foreclosure process can be eliminated. However, there are two major problems with a deed in lieu. First, if subsequent to our lien the borrower incurred additions liens or judgements, they would only be eliminated by a completed foreclosure. Second, a borrower who want to or believes it’s to his benefit to keep ownership of the property, must be properly incentivized to sign the deed.

What we’ve found that works is when a borrower defaults but believes with that he can make payments going forward, or that some event allowing him to pay us off will occur, we will offer to allow the borrower TIME during which we won’t initiate foreclosure. This is usually 3 - 6 months, and we require the borrower execute a deed granting us the property which is held in escrow not to be recorded unless the borrower fails to perform as he promised. Through the years we probably used deed in lieu more than a dozen times, and in all cases the outcome was substantially better than if we foreclosed.

Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
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Specialist · I give advice - [email protected] - I focus on states where investing is profitable, reasonably safe & secure · Member since 2026 · 142 posts · 48 votes
2d
Quote from @Don Konipol:

People lacking experience in real estate in particular, or business in general, are typically SHOCKED to learn exactly how slow, costly and aggravating taking “legal” action against someone who clearly violated a contract, can be.

One very common misconceptions amongst some of our new investors in our loan syndications is that is someone misses a payment we just “take the property”. While it may end up that way, it can take as long as three years (state dependent) or even LONGER (bankruptcy). Further, the expense of going thru foreclosure with a determined debtor who will file multiple bankruptcies, go thru multiple attorneys, lie, create false documents, etc. has reached well over $100,000 for us. And while “theoretically” all those legal fees are charged to the seller, most often the seller has no other obtainable assets to go after. The subject property itself may have, after 3 years or more, much deferred maintenance, property taxes in default, insurance payments we covered, etc. and we’re often lucky to escape at break even.

As a result we find it much to our advantage to try to secure a “deed in lieu” from the borrower. This puts the ownership in our name, and the entire foreclosure process can be eliminated. However, there are two major problems with a deed in lieu. First, if subsequent to our lien the borrower incurred additions liens or judgements, they would only be eliminated by a completed foreclosure. Second, a borrower who want to or believes it’s to his benefit to keep ownership of the property, must be properly incentivized to sign the deed.

What we’ve found that works is when a borrower defaults but believes with that he can make payments going forward, or that some event allowing him to pay us off will occur, we will offer to allow the borrower TIME during which we won’t initiate foreclosure. This is usually 3 - 6 months, and we require the borrower execute a deed granting us the property which is held in escrow not to be recorded unless the borrower fails to perform as he promised. Through the years we probably used deed in lieu more than a dozen times, and in all cases the outcome was substantially better than if we foreclosed.

Foreclosure is a nasty business no matter how much people think it will make them by doing pre- foreclosures.

And you're not exaggerating when it can take years with bankruptcy, false statements (lies), especially in a tenant friendly state like we dealt with.

My recommendation when buying a pre-foreclosure (slightly different than your situation) is to split the seller proceeds so that the seller gets some to help them move and the rest on proof of vacancy. Even that doesn’t always work. Sometimes they become squatters.

What a lot of people dealing with pre-foreclosures don't get is the timing factor, a date certain has been set for sale and you can't just miss that date or you've lost the entire transaction and all the money that you put into it. You have to understand what liens and judgments are going with the property, which the foreclosure process normally clears up.

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  • Specialist · I give advice - [email protected] - I focus on states where investing is profitable, reasonably safe & secure · Member since 2026 · 142 posts · 48 votes
    2d
    Quote from @Don Konipol:

    People lacking experience in real estate in particular, or business in general, are typically SHOCKED to learn exactly how slow, costly and aggravating taking “legal” action against someone who clearly violated a contract, can be.

    One very common misconceptions amongst some of our new investors in our loan syndications is that is someone misses a payment we just “take the property”. While it may end up that way, it can take as long as three years (state dependent) or even LONGER (bankruptcy). Further, the expense of going thru foreclosure with a determined debtor who will file multiple bankruptcies, go thru multiple attorneys, lie, create false documents, etc. has reached well over $100,000 for us. And while “theoretically” all those legal fees are charged to the seller, most often the seller has no other obtainable assets to go after. The subject property itself may have, after 3 years or more, much deferred maintenance, property taxes in default, insurance payments we covered, etc. and we’re often lucky to escape at break even.

    As a result we find it much to our advantage to try to secure a “deed in lieu” from the borrower. This puts the ownership in our name, and the entire foreclosure process can be eliminated. However, there are two major problems with a deed in lieu. First, if subsequent to our lien the borrower incurred additions liens or judgements, they would only be eliminated by a completed foreclosure. Second, a borrower who want to or believes it’s to his benefit to keep ownership of the property, must be properly incentivized to sign the deed.

    What we’ve found that works is when a borrower defaults but believes with that he can make payments going forward, or that some event allowing him to pay us off will occur, we will offer to allow the borrower TIME during which we won’t initiate foreclosure. This is usually 3 - 6 months, and we require the borrower execute a deed granting us the property which is held in escrow not to be recorded unless the borrower fails to perform as he promised. Through the years we probably used deed in lieu more than a dozen times, and in all cases the outcome was substantially better than if we foreclosed.

    Foreclosure is a nasty business no matter how much people think it will make them by doing pre- foreclosures.

    And you're not exaggerating when it can take years with bankruptcy, false statements (lies), especially in a tenant friendly state like we dealt with.

    My recommendation when buying a pre-foreclosure (slightly different than your situation) is to split the seller proceeds so that the seller gets some to help them move and the rest on proof of vacancy. Even that doesn’t always work. Sometimes they become squatters.

    What a lot of people dealing with pre-foreclosures don't get is the timing factor, a date certain has been set for sale and you can't just miss that date or you've lost the entire transaction and all the money that you put into it. You have to understand what liens and judgments are going with the property, which the foreclosure process normally clears up.

  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    1d

    Well said Don!

    Parallel to this are evictions.

    Sometimes it's better to offer cash-for-keys then take on a tenant that knows the system and can drag an eviction out for many months.

    • Don KonipolBusiness Member
      OP
      Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
      1d

      Right. The way I view it is it’s a balancing act between the lowest cost BUT you don’t want to get a reputation as a “soft touch”.

      Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
    • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
      Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
      23h

      In addition both foreclosure and eviction U hope that doing it cash for keys or deed they wont get vindictive and destroy the house on the way out.

      I bought court house steps property some years ago in Vancouver washington and the owner ( a contractor) stripped the house on the way out all the cabinets appliances lighting flooring and even sheetrock. left us a shell. :)

      ON the tenant side I have had them take hammers to the walls concrete into the plumbing take the condenser and HVAC SYSTEM etc etc. when its that egregious I have been able to turn that into insurance and get paid on a claim and they go after those folks criminally. But with foreclosures your just out.

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    16h

    That's what makes me laugh about so many of these guru "strategies" I see flying around all the time. All of them end somewhere with the RE version of "100% Money back guarantee if you're not satisfied!" Only someone who's never been through an eviction or a foreclosure would believe that's their guarantee. In reality both of those events are the approach of last resort, because in general no court wants to throw anyone out on the street. In my Florida community I was on the HOA Board and we had a homeowner who hadn't paid HOA dues in at least 5 years, and had been foreclosed on twice by his lender. Through clever maneuvering and delay tactics this guy managed to stave off losing the house the entire 5 years I was in that neighborhood, though I think he's pretty close to the end now.

    Skyline Properties
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  • Richard NeesePro Member
    Rental Property Investor · South Vinemont, AL · Member since 2026 · 8 posts · 1 vote
    5h

    Being in Real Estate for around 10 years with almost 100 doors i've found legal to be a line item on a financial report. We make decisions based on how much the potential costs is and the probability of us winning. It's never as simple as just go take it back. If you are going to take risks... make sure there is an appropriate return on the other side. Thanks for contributing to the community !

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