Property Manager 路 Gatlinburg, TN 路 Member since 2020 路 3k+ posts 路 4k+ votes
Seems like once a week, someone asks about whether this or that property will "make money."
What does "make money" mean? Does it mean a positive monthly cash flow? If yes, then a vacation rental is an incredibly poor investment, regardless of price. While there are properties in the Smokies that will "make money" (positive yearly NOI), that's not as much my objective with this type of investment. I buy QUALITY real estate in the Smokies (or anywhere else) knowing it's going to rise in value significantly over time, and other people are going to service the majority of that debt for me. So if I'm having to kick in $1000 a month, it's no worry to me. If it "makes" $1,000 a month, not a big deal either. Neither of those amounts are moving my needle, and if they are moving yours, you shouldn't be buying real estate.
Serious question: How many of us are dutifully stashing $2,000 a month into a 401K with zero current income, and we are perfectly content to do so until we are old people?
My first cabin in the Smokies, I bought in 2005. I was negative $1,000 a month for a while. But the renters have long since paid that asset off, and it's now free and clear doing $50K in annual rents, and the value us probably $700K. What's wrong with that investment?
Now, I also own five Great Clips franchises. I did buy these for income. They've helped me...buy more cabins! Different investments, different objectives.
Search out what your investment objectives are. If monthly income is at the top of your list, forget about vacation rentals and buy a Great Clips franchise.
I used to preach the same thing.. but I was telling folks to buy a subway or pizza franchise.. There is just this on going idea that folks can buy rentals and all of a sudden in a few short years be making enough on positive cash flow to quit their day job. that can happen if you have very low to no debt. thats when it gets good like your paid for cabin. for me the day job is renting one to others and building new homes.. both are business's that just happen to be anchored by real estate but its not real estate investing per se. just like great clips is not real estate investing its cash flow investing.
Great points, Collin. I think the problem with those investments is not everyone starting out in real estate has the bank account to bankroll $1k in losses/month/property. Perhaps a more realistic assumption when folks are buying their first property these days is breaking even or having a plan to change the equation in those first 5 years? Maybe that鈥檚 purchasing with a higher interest rate and with a plan to lower expenses, pay off debt, increase income streams, reduce vacancies, improve PM, or whatever other special sauce an investor may bring to the table to improve the income/expense scales in their favor.
And perhaps that鈥檚 just another way of saying: know a way to find and improve an underperforming asset. 馃榾
Yeah, I think if you can't afford to subsidize for a few years, it's best just to buy stocks and REITs until you can. I didn't buy my first STR until I was 40 years old or so.
I used to preach the same thing.. but I was telling folks to buy a subway or pizza franchise.. There is just this on going idea that folks can buy rentals and all of a sudden in a few short years be making enough on positive cash flow to quit their day job. that can happen if you have very low to no debt. thats when it gets good like your paid for cabin. for me the day job is renting one to others and building new homes.. both are business's that just happen to be anchored by real estate but its not real estate investing per se. just like great clips is not real estate investing its cash flow investing.
@Collin Hays I think the useful part of this is that "make money" needs a definition before anyone can answer it. Cash flow, appreciation, and debt paydown are different goals, and they call for different properties. Your cabin is a good example of a long-term appreciation play that worked.
I'd add two things for newer investors. A plan like this works best when you can comfortably cover a negative month without stress, and when you can hold through a slow stretch, since appreciation is never guaranteed and a 2005 purchase had a long runway. Vacation rentals also swing with seasons, regulations, and insurance costs, so reserves matter more than the label on the strategy. Being clear about your objective up front, and sizing the deal to match, is the real lesson.