TCS Foreclosures - need help...
Hello everyone,
I'm a new member here and have been doing a lot of reading and trying to use the search function as much as possible before asking questions. But now I have one for everybody and I would greatly appreciate some help.
I live in Denver, CO and the foreclosure market here is good (for investors). I was approached by a company called TCS Foreclosures to do what they call research on properties. The goal is to negotiate short sales for $0.70 on the dollar including rehab with the bank and the current owners of the property. The guarantee is that if my research is correct their investors will buy them and I'll get paid a finders fee.
Well they are selling an 18 week course on how to nogetiate short sales along with access to their investor network for a pretty penny ($7500). The classes are conducted via open mic conference call with 50 students at a time that can interact with other students and the instructor. I'd assume that this would make it easier to hear legitimate complaints, but if I've paid money then it would too late...
My questions are as follows:
Is this course worth it?
Does anyone think this course will allow me to make finders fees faster than I would trying to do this same business on my own?
Is there a more cost effective way to get access to a large group of investors that will buy discounted homes/properties?
Is there a better short sale program out there?
I actually have about 10,000 more questions, but I would greatly appreciate any answers as a starting point.
Thanks,
Savoy6 - You sound like you work for the company or at least have some involvement. I'm not saying anything about TCS, but you just joined biggerpockets and went straight to this discussion. Seems to me that you've got some kind of vested interest here, especially considering you've posted on this site 1 message and that message is the one spanking any of the TCS naysayers.
I am not involved with TCS in anyway. I was researching foreclosures and came across this message board. I am in the real estate business and if that is a vested interest then so be it.
When I started in real estate around 6 years ago, many people said the same things about buying rental properties as is being said here. Not exactly the same but complaints nevertheless. There were concerns about how it just couldn't be done and "there must be something wrong with the property if the price is so low?" "This is too easy, I need to keep looking. Something must be wrong." In the mean time I was buying everything I could get my hands on much to the chagrin of my friends and family. They thought I was nuts. To me, it seemed obvious that the market was going somewhere and rather than listening to the naysayers, I pushed forward.
I don't know anyone who didn't make money by getting involved in real estate back then. I know a lot of people who lost by not getting involved and those happen to be the same people who thought I was nuts and/or "there must be a scam involved".
Folks, foreclosures are definately going somewhere. Just read the news. It's a trend that will run its course. Get in now, at the beginning and you will profit. Aside of some act of God, all you have to do is position yourself in front of the cash, answer the phone and cash your checks.
I wish I had a TCS 6 years ago. It would have saved me a lot of trouble dealing with Realtors who didn't know what was going on. It would have saved me a lot of driving and fear of the unknown. I paid more than $7,500 out of pocket to "learn" what I know now. Who knows how much more my ventures would have made had I not gone it alone?
Anyway, this is not a plug for TCS. This is a plug for the real estate market and my belief that education and positioning is the key. I think $7,500 is a small price to pay for a nationwide network of investors, properties and education. Unless they take your money and all you get is a busy tone or disconnected number when you call someone, it's not a scam IMO.
So yes you can learn it on your own. It will cost you more than $7,500 in time and education and mistakes. Rare will be the expert in the field who will donate his/her time for free. I wouldn't. By the way, I'm a one man show and people have paid me $5,000 non-refundable as a retainer just to find the properties for them. That's for finding and analyzing properties right here in Southern California.
So...I wish you the best of luck in whatever you do. I recommend taking a strong look at a company like TCS and not write it off as a scam just because it costs money.
Why would you immediately think I was involved with TCS? That's what I mean about Scam Mongers. Because I believe in the concept that TCS reports on their website and what I see here, then I must be involved?
Is it not possible that people who get involved with the company actually make money or get what they pay for? or what?
The "costs money=must be a scam" attitude just doesn't jive with me.
You've missed the whole discussion. People went and saw that there were a whole group of people who suddenly jumped on the site with no purpose here other than to talk up this company. When that happens, it looks awfully fishy. No one wrote it off as a scam because it cost a lot of money.
So yes you can learn it on your own. It will cost you more than $7,500 in time and education and mistakes. Rare will be the expert in the field who will donate his/her time for free. I wouldn't. By the way, I'm a one man show and people have paid me $5,000 non-refundable as a retainer just to find the properties for them. That's for finding and analyzing properties right here in Southern California.
Not true. In fact, people learn every day on this site and others, exactly what you're talking about, and the education is 100% free of charge. There are members here who have done dozens of deals and are worth many millions, yet they give their time to help out others. They don't do it for the money, but because they have something they want to share with others.
As for people paying you $5,000 for finding properties, there are tons of people doing that. They are called bird-dogs.
With that said, are you going to actually participate on the site here or was this a one time show of support for TCS?
Yes I intend to participate and share my knowledge. I won't bother copying and pasting all the comments warning someone who inquired about TCS that it sounded like a scam etc.
"As for people paying you $5,000 for finding properties, there are tons of people doing that. They are called bird-dogs."
Thanks for making my point. $7,500 for a nationwide network...yada yada yada is a drop in the bucket.
"In fact, people learn every day on this site and others, exactly what you're talking about, and the education is 100% free of charge."
Now ask those same people to "hands on" practically do the deal for someone else for free and see how they respond. Probably not for free. See you around...
Originally posted by "savoy6":
Thanks for making my point. $7,500 for a nationwide network...yada yada yada is a drop in the bucket.
I'm not sure, but I don't think the average guy thinks that $7500 is a drop in the bucket. Actually, I'm pretty sure rich people don't think so either, especially when there are alternatives that are just as good or better, and are completely free.
Welcome to our world. This is Biggerpockets, a "nationwide network" as you call it, of investors to work and deal with. I'll take your $7500 and grant you access, but it is not my site. The guy who runs this place, biggerpo, is out there making sure people don't have to pay $7500 to access anything at all.
O.K. You win. Life is hard. It can't be done. Everything is a struggle and you have to fight tooth and nail to catch a break. Be very skeptical and don't believe anything. Get a guarantee in writing and never trust anyone. There...I think we can move on now.
This'll be my last smart aleck comment on the subject.
If the "average guy" thinks $7,500 is a lot of money then how can said "average guy" think it's possible to earn $250,000 on a deal or have a $5,000 monthly cash flow or even how is it possible for someone who thinks that kind of money is so huge to imagine being a millionaire...seriously? Little dreams, little reality. Big dreams, big reality.
I'm checking out on the subject. I've made my point. Again...good luck and "you get what you pay for"
Originally posted by "savoy6":
I'm checking out on the subject. I've made my point. Again...good luck and "you get what you pay for"
I'll chime in on this one. If you get what you pay for, and people pay nothing to access this site, then what are they getting, nothing? There are many tens of thousands of people who will argue otherwise.
I was approached to invest and decided to do research not only on public forums but in criminal records. The CEO has been twice convicted of DUI and was arrested in September 2008 for 3rd DUI. He was also convicted of hit and run at time of his 2nd arrest which was June 2008.
The records are all here.
http://www.occourts.org/online-services/case-access/
Search under criminal cases for CEO Andrew Wardein
How am I sure this is the same Andrew Wardein? Look at the bail info. His partner Kevin Grom bailed him out.
One last thing. I have not invested in the product which this company provides so I can't say if the product is good or bad. I just think people should do all of their homework before investing thousands of dollars. I personally would not invest in a company run by a man that can't even drive his own car because of his irresponsibility to follow the law.
This company is required to give a samp disclosure to buyers 48 hours prior to paying a dime. It would be interesting to hear from anyone if Andrews criminal activities have been disclosed in the SAMP as required.
Andrew, feel free to comment on your unlawful behavior or the cease and desist order from maine.
http://www.maine.gov/pfr/securities/adminorders/Trinity_CO.htm