You’ll Have Your 3 Best Investing Markets After This Episode

Dave:
If you live somewhere like California or New York, your first rental property will probably need to be in another state, maybe even one you’ve never visited before. That leaves hundreds of cities to analyze trying to find the best one. And it’s easy to get stuck there and not wind up picking any investment market at all. In reality though, this decision is simpler than it looks and more personal than you might think. You can analyze dozens of data points, home prices, population growth, employment rates, but any deep dive is going to reveal the same 10 or 20 markets. We can even tell you some of them right now. Indianapolis, Columbus, Louisville. That first spreadsheet is the easy part, but what you’ll quickly discover is there is no best investing market. Any of those cities can work for someone. The real question is which one works for you?
That’s based on your goals, your investing strategy, and the money you’re starting with. Today, we’re sharing the exact framework to match your situation to your market. So by the end, you’re not choosing between hundreds of cities, you’re choosing from about three. What’s up everyone? I’m Dave Meyer, chief investment officer at BiggerPockets here with Henry Washington talking about a time tested question almost every investor needs to answer for themselves at some point. And maybe you’ve been with me on the road a lot. Maybe the question I answer more than any other question in my whole life, maybe even more than what my name is, people ask me this question.

Henry:
You can just tell us, Dave, quit beating around the bush and doing all these shows and just tell us which markets we should invest in.

Dave:
Yeah.

Henry:
What’s the very best one, Dave?

Dave:
I will never tell. I invest there myself and I never tell anyone.

Henry:
This whole episode is throwing you off the scent of the market Dave likes to invest in.

Dave:
It’s all a decoy. No, the fact is that there is no right market. That’s why I never answer this question directly. And I know it frustrates people, but people are like, “What market should I invest in?” But I cannot answer that question for you. It’s not like there’s one secret one that’s better than anything else. There are different flavors of markets that you need to think about for yourself. So the first step you should take is to just narrow it down to 10 or 20 cities. And everyone’s going to have a different way of doing this, but honestly, you can use Claude or AI. You can go and use lists that I’ve published on BiggerPockets if you want to see some of the markets I like. I’ll just give you a top 10 list and you can do this for yourself. You can use these top 10 markets if you want.
There are different flavors of doing it. But for rent to payment ratio, here are the top 10. Hartford, Connecticut, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Louisville, Kentucky, Indianapolis, Columbus, Ohio, Kansas City, Missouri, Dallas, Atlanta, and Chicago. Now those aren’t the top 10 in terms of rent to payment. Notice I did not say Cleveland, I did not say Detroit, which actually have the best rent to payment ratios, but I like to look for things like population growth and job growth and some fundamentals. So I just filtered down the best cash flow markets and found the 10 that have good cash flow and have good job growth, good population growth. So that’s the top 10 list we’ll use for today.

Henry:
So the way I kind of see this is that first level of narrowing down, that’s raw data points that you’re researching. But the second level, the one that people really need help with, I think part of the reason they need help with this is because they’re not all raw data points. Some of them are just a feeling. Some of them are just based on some experience you may have. It’s harder to narrow them down. But I’m curious, what do you consider some of these other factors people should choose from compared to what are some of the ones that I think they should choose from?

Dave:
For sure. This is really where you kind of separate the art from the science because all of those markets are good and they’ll have different variables. Some will have the top job growth, some will have the top population growth, and you kind of have to just weigh those things for yourself, but they’re all going to be pretty good. For me, when it comes down to narrowing down this list, and I’ve done this process many times, I’ve actually gone through this exact process. Honestly, the first two things I think about are will I go there and how big of a pain in the butt is it for me to go there? Because there’s just certain places I’m not willing to go and it’s not really about the geography. I am a giant baby and I don’t like taking connecting flights and I want direct flights to where I’m going to go.
I don’t want to be traveling for 12 hours to go visit a rental property. And for me, that’s unfortunately ruled out a lot of the Southwest. I live in the Pacific Northwest. I can’t get to Chattanooga. I can’t get to some of the places in Georgia and North Carolina that I think are excellent markets. I can’t get there quick enough. I don’t really want to go there. The second thing is just gut check, does it work with my strategy? And I think I’ve already sort of done this part by looking at cash flow because if I can find cash flow works with my strategy, which is long-term buy and hold. But if I was you and you were flipping, Henry, you’d probably want to make sure that you could flip effectively in this market. For people like short-term rental investors, that’s even a little bit more level of research.
But those are the first two things I think that can probably get me from a top 20 list to five, to something like that. And I think once you’re at five, then it’s really good.That’s kind of when you start to dig in, at least in my mind.

Henry:
I totally agree. The same filter. Once I have the list, the first filter I’m looking at is will I go there? And the function of will I go there is based on just is this a city that I want to be spending time in? And B, how easily can I get there? So yeah, same thing. I want direct flights. So I narrow it down. The second factor that I’m looking at is do I have any sort of connections or competitive advantage in any of those markets? So do I know people there that are in the real estate industry? Have I spent time there before? Have I lived there or around there before? Because building a team is a huge part of this. So if I’ve been there before and I understand the area, that’s a little bit of a competitive advantage. So then I start diving into this, call it tier two analytics.
We know it’s got population growth and it’s got job growth because those are the things we filtered for in tier one, but now I’m deeper diving. What kinds of companies are there? Are they investing in being there for the long haul? Have they put money into infrastructure expanding or growing? I’m also looking at the cities themselves and see are they spending money on infrastructure within the city? What kind of contracts do they have coming in? Is there a Microsoft coming in building a data center that’s going to open up a bunch of new jobs? So I’ll do a deeper dive trying to figure out, okay, which one has the better second tier analytics?

Dave:
All right, so let’s dive into those other factors because this is where you should spend your time. The top 10, top 20 list, that should be relatively easy. Narrowing it down to five or so and then doing a real deep research into those five, that’s where you spend your time. That’s where you’re going to make your decision. That’s the important part. So we’re going to break down each of these variables. We do have to take a quick break though. We’ll be right back. Before we go to break, if you’re someone who’s bought a couple of deals and you’re looking to scale up your portfolio into something bigger, I have a really exciting announcement for you. BiggerPockets is hosting its first ever conference focused just on scaling up. It’s this December, it’s coming up soon, this December 5th through 7th in Phoenix, Arizona. We’re going to have a full day of programming with speakers like myself, James Daynard, Kathy Fecke, and Devon Kinard talking about how to scale up and build a sustainable business.
Tickets are on sale now, but there are only 100 tickets. So go to biggerpockets.com/conferences now and get your ticket today.
Welcome back to the BiggerPockets Podcast. Henry and I are talking about how to narrow down your markets because everyone wants a magical market. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that way. You got to figure this out for yourself. We’ve talked about how you start. Pick 20 markets. That’s the easy part, honestly. You’re going to get the same markets. There are some markets that just stand out in terms of their fundamentals. We named a lot of them in the Midwest and the Southeast where Henry lives in Northwest Arkansas. These are great places to invest. Going from 10 to one is the hard part and the important part, but I actually also think the fun part because then you get to start to figure out where you’re going to build your business. It’s fun. Rather than getting stuck in analysis paralysis, you get to start going. So we named a bunch of each of these things.
We talked about distance and strategy. Hopefully those things make sense. Those are kind of big high level that are kind of self-explanatory. Are you willing to go there? Is it easy for you to get to? Henry, you mentioned one that I think is perhaps the most important of them all, the competitive advantage and connection. Can you explain that one a little bit more?

Henry:
Yeah, absolutely. When you’re investing out of state, you’re relying on other people to really operate your business for you. So you need people that you can trust. So when I’m looking for that competitive advantage, the first thing I’m looking for is do I already have connections there? Maybe I’ve worked with someone at a different place and they live in this city now. Maybe I have an investor-friendly agent there that I already have an established relationship with. Maybe I’ve got some contractor contacts there. So any place I already have contacts, that kind of gets bumped up to the top of the list, but you also have to think about, do you understand that market in any level? So if you’ve lived in or around one of these cities before, having an understanding of what neighborhoods are the best ones to invest in, what parts of town are growing and where the path of progress is because you’ve got experience with that town, the more familiar I am with the area myself, those go to the top of the list.

Dave:
I think those are so important. When you get to your top 10 list, building your team and having an advantage in that market is probably the most important thing. I really think it is because like we said, all of these markets are good markets. They’re not a secret. Other investors are going to go there. So you have to think and be humble about it and realize me as an outside investor, I’m going to come in. How am I going to compete against the people who live there? And you don’t need to be the best investor in that market. I will just say that. You don’t have to be the top performer. You need to be the best at what you do and what you do as an out-of-state investor in this scenario. And so how do you be a great out-of-state investor by having the right connections in that city?
And so that can be an agent, like Henry said. I think that’s a great way to do it. And it doesn’t even need to be someone you know beforehand, but can you develop that relationship while you’re doing this research to the point where you feel comfortable, have multiple conversations, do all the stuff we’ve talked about and picking an agent, that kind of thing. Do you know anyone in the city who could just help you understand the neighborhoods in a good level? Knowing the city, having been there, having fun there, knowing where people want to live is super important. And I’ll just share with my experience, I have traveled to dozens of cities to test them out for real estate investing. I will say that I’ve not lived in most of these cities. I’ve lived in three or four cities in the United States before, so clearly not all of them.
But there are certain cities that are similar to places I live, and I tend to like to invest in places like that. I grew up in the Northeast. I feel like I understand Northeast cities. I lived in Denver. I actually feel like I understand western half the country cities. I went to Portland recently just to go eat from food trucks. It was awesome. The food is so good. But I was like, I get this city. It was kind of like Denver. The housing stock looks similar. The layout is similar. Where people live is similar. When I go to Texas and I go to Houston and all that sprawl, I’m like, I don’t understand this at all. That doesn’t make sense to me. Garrett, who we work with at BiggerPockets, that makes perfect sense to him because he’s lived there all of his life. And if he went to Dallas, a similar sort of layout city, that might make sense to him.
So just find things that make sense to you. When you go there, can you grasp it? I went to San Antonio and I was like, I couldn’t even tell you. It’s huge.

Henry:
What a massive city.

Dave:
It’s so big and that means there’s so many opportunities, but as an out-of-state investor, I felt really intimidated by trying to narrow down the different neighborhoods and opportunities and different strategies I could use. It just didn’t make sense to me. So I eliminated that city even though it’s a great market. So I think this is probably the number one thing. It is totally an art. It’s not a science thing, but this is why this is where you should spend your time.

Henry:
I agree with you, Dave. I think these are important things to think about, but once you have these markets narrowed down, you need to figure out of the asset type that you’re trying to buy, is it affordable enough for you? In this level of research, consider specifically is the price range of the asset that you’re looking for reasonable, especially if you’re doing something like a short-term rental that needs a lot of amenities. Those are higher price points, right? So you need to make sure that the specific asset you’re trying to buy, you can afford. I know it sounds silly, but this is something you need to know before you decide on your market, you start looking and realize these things cost way more than I anticipated, especially if you’re in a market like where I live where multifamily is very expensive.

Dave:
It’s super important because this is the whole point is to find something that’s affordable and cash flows. So absolutely. The good thing about the places that we listed and the reason these top 10 and 20 lists come up over and over again is they tend to be on the more affordable side of things. But even within this list, there’s a pretty big range. Atlanta gotten pretty expensive now. The average single family home in Atlanta I think is more than 400 grand. If you’re in Kansas City, it’s probably 250. Milwaukee, it’s probably 180. So there is a range here for sure.

Henry:
The next thing I think people need to think about, and I’m curious what you think about this, is what’s the competitive advantage at all in the type of asset class that you have? Let’s say, for example, I’m trying to buy small multis and I am now researching a market and I can see that they’ve had a ton of new construction, mid-size to smaller multi-families being built. That may not be the best choice for me. If you look at Northwest Arkansas as an example, and your plan was to buy mid-size multifamily, well, here we have so many A class, brand new, beautiful apartment communities that have either just been built in the last three years or under construction right now and planned to be built and they’re not full. They’re offering all these incentives for people to get a free month’s rent to move in there to try to get the occupancy up.
And what that’s going to do is it’s going to push rent prices down because if the A class is pushing down its rent prices, then the B class follows because if you can get an A class unit for the same price as a B, you’re going to go get the A, right? So it pushes the rents all the way down.

Dave:
Yeah, no tenants like, actually, I’m just a B class kind of guy.

Henry:
So it just makes it harder for you to be profitable in the long term if you’re jumping in into that same asset class in a market that’s oversaturated or overbuilt. So understanding when you understand the housing stock, is it a market where there’s tons of new construction single family homes and you’re trying to buy something that’s existing, your rents might not be what you want them to be because you’re competing with a bunch of build to rent, single family, brand new communities. So you really have to dive deeper and take a look at what is the housing stock in terms of, is it a market where there’s a ton of new construction? Is it a market where there’s tons of older homes and you can go find something maybe that was built in the 50s, 60s or 70s? That’s a competitive advantage for you.

Dave:
What Henry said about knowing your strategy and is that available in this market? It’s a mistake I’ve made. I will just say that. I’ve done research, looked on paper and been like, all right, this is a great market. It has the price point as the cash flow. But then I bought some units and I couldn’t scale. I couldn’t find enough and it wasn’t even deal flow. I tightened my criteria a little bit. This happens in the Midwest. I don’t want to buy things built in the 1910s or 1920s anymore.

Henry:
Everything’s old. And a lot of the Midwest is old.

Dave:
Yeah. And I can’t find it. The only newer things are eight plus units, which I would consider buying, but the pricing isn’t as good on that. That’s not why I got into that market because I wanted the pricing of what I was seeing fourplexes going for. But these fourplexes are super old in a harsh climate in the Midwest. That’s not what I want at this point in my career. And so I’ve had to unwind in a market, not because the deals I bought were bad, but because I couldn’t scale and it just wasn’t worth it to me to have a base of operations for four units. It’s like I just don’t really want to do that for two properties.

Henry:
I do have a quick question for you about a couple of other things I think we’ve talked about before. So these maybe aren’t data centric or even some would say they’re probably not that important, but they’re important to me. And so when I’m evaluating these climate, I don’t like cold cities and I don’t want to have to go to a cold city to check on a property in the middle of winter or deal with cold city things with a property. And I know some people, that’s all they invest and that’s awesome, but that’s just a personal preference to me. I wouldn’t go or I would hate it and I’d be mad about it. So I look at the climate and consider, am I going to want to go there in the winter or am I going to hate this place? And the other thing is, I think we just called it vibes.

Dave:
Yeah, vibes.

Henry:
Is it?

Dave:
I invest on vibes so hard.

Henry:
Is it cool?

Dave:
Yeah. Is it cool?

Henry:
Is it cool? Because if it’s cool, I want to go.

Dave:
Yeah. I kind of loop these together into one thing. I really care a lot about the quality of life, and that is a hard thing to articulate, but do the people who live there like living there and do I like being there is super important. There are some cold areas I’m fine with if people are cool with it, if the culture supports it. To me, that’s kind of how I value it. I have invested in Michigan. I deliberately go in the winter. I know that sounds crazy to you, but I want to see what it’s like in the winter. Is it dead? Is no one doing anything? Or are people having fun going out? Is the city alive? And if the city’s alive, that’s kind of what I care about because one, I want to like being there and two, yeah, I know the whole work from home thing has

Henry:
Kind

Dave:
Of shifted back a little bit in the other direction, but people have a lot more choice now. And my general sense is that migration, it is of course driven by jobs, but a lot of it is driven by lifestyle and where people want to live. And I think that’s just super important. Is it a desirable place to live? I care a lot about that and I want to like being in the city that I invest in. We’ve talked about this before. Are there good restaurants? Is there a hotel I like to stay at? Is it easy for me to get to the airport? Is it fun? I know that sounds silly, but I don’t think it is. I really do think it matters.

Henry:
Here’s why I think it matters because I know people are listening to this and going, why do I care? Does it make money? I would urge you, think about anything you’ve ever done in your life successfully. You cared about that thing beyond just the income it produced. And so when I think about my real estate portfolio, yes, the goal of it is to produce income, but they’re more than just money printers to me. I care about the community that I invest in. I care about the impact that I have or that my properties have on the area that I’m investing in because I care about this area. I enjoy the vibes Northwest Arkansas has. I enjoy the lifestyle Northwest Arkansas provides. I love getting to be a part of that by providing housing to people who enjoy living here. I take pride in it. The more pride I take in my business and my properties, the more money it’s going to produce because I’m going to stay on top of things.
I’m going to stay on top of things like maintenance. I’m going to stay on top of things like tenant issues because there’s pride in managing the assets because I care about more than just the building. I care about the people living in the building. I care about the community that those people are a part of. It makes me a better operator. And so I want to care about the same things in a market if I’m investing out of state. And so if I don’t like the vibes, if I don’t like the weather and I don’t want to be there, that will impact how I operate my business. That is human nature, right? If you think you’re going to separate and operate a perfectly performing portfolio, if you don’t care about the people or the market or anything and all you care about is the money it produces, it probably won’t operate as efficiently as you would like it to.

Dave:
It’s a great point. You want to be in a place that you buy into the culture and the atmosphere that people really like it, you like it, you want to be a positive influence there. People are going to take pride. They want to show you around. You go and you tell them, “I’m here. I’m checking it out.” People are so excited to show you about that place. There are plenty of places I go in the Midwest where it’s cold, but there’s still that vibe and that’s I think the part that matters. All right, so let’s talk about wrapping this up and how to take all this stuff into account and narrowing it down and how to make this decision. We got to take one more quick break though. We’ll be right back. Welcome back to the BiggerPockets Podcast. I’m Dave Meyer here with Henry Washington talking about narrowing down your markets.
We talked about establishing sort of big picture thing, then using things like strategy, distance, price range, housing stock, climate and vibe, and you’re building your team as the ways to narrow it down. This is a lot of information that you have to take in and sort of synthesize and come up with an answer. How do you take all this information and make a final one?

Henry:
So as you’re doing this tier two level research, what’s naturally going to happen is you’re going to be narrowed down to probably two or three. And you’re going to be like, “I don’t know which one is the one for me.” Here’s what you can do. You can get your ass on a plane and you can go visit all three. And I say it like that because I’ve talked to so many people who are like, “Man, I’ve got it down to two or three. I know I want to invest out of state. I’m thinking about this market, this market, and this market, but I don’t know which one. Henry, which one should I choose?” And then I’ll go, “Have you been there to any of them?” And they go, “No.” It’s a couple hundred dollars for a plane ticket. Get yourself on a plane and go visit the markets.
And I promise you, once you get on a plane and you go, you will know almost instantly –

Dave:
100%.

Henry:
You’ll know exactly which one you want to invest in once you go and you get a feel.

Dave:
What we are talking about here is called investing and you need to invest to do it well. And this is part of the money. This is like closing cost. It is like your renovation budget. This is part of the cost of being an investor. And even if you’re driving an hour, you’re investing time and effort locally to go figure out properties and whether or not this is an additional cost if you’re doing it out of state, but it’s still, it’s part of the job. If you are not willing to spend the thousand dollars to go look at a couple markets, you’re not ready to invest out of state. I’ll just say that. If you’re that tight on money, I wouldn’t do it. I would wait until you had enough money to make this decision. And if you’re just not willing to do it because you don’t want to spend the time, then you’re not ready to be an out-of-state investor.

Henry:
But don’t just go with no agenda. You want to make sure you’ve got things planned. I’m curious what you plan when you go visit a market.

Dave:
Number one thing is to meet with potential team members. So multiple real estate agents, multiple property managers, and local investors, finding people on bigger pockets who are doing stuff. Those are the best things. I’ll take you out for a beer. I’ll take you out for a coffee and just get to know people and try and understand what they’re doing and feel comfortable. Next is looking at deals. And honestly, I never expect to find my deal while I’m there. If that happens to you, great, but that’s not why I’m there. I’m going to see the housing stock is kind of the idea. How are things priced? What do I get? Maybe this thing is 300 grand on Zillow for a duplex, which is a good price point. What does it feel like to be in there? Is it old? Is it in great shape? Do you think people will rent it?
What’s the block like? Those kinds of things, you just can’t do it on street view. I’m sorry. You got to go do it in person. The third thing I do on top of deals is just try and find neighborhoods. To me, that’s one of the harder things about being an out-of-state investor is in a big city, where do I want to invest? And I want to just go understand and narrow it down from 30 neighborhoods to three that I like. Because that way when I go home, I feel confident looking in those neighborhoods because I might not remember the exact block, but I remember the vibe well enough to know what I’m buying or potentially buying. So I think that’s probably the top three things is the vibe check obviously, but then team member, look at deals in housing stock and understand the neighborhoods.

Henry:
I also think you should try to go and coordinate your visit when there’s local investor meetups happening so that you can go get in the room at local investor meetups because that’s where you’re going to get the majority of your connections is through other local investors.

Dave:
Totally.

Henry:
So going and attending in-person meetups I think is a huge thing to be able to do.

Dave:
There’s just something human about having some shared experience that really changes the relationship. And I think that’s really important as investors because also, if you’re an investor-friendly agent in one of these markets, you’re probably getting calls from tire kickers all the time like, “I want to invest in Columbus. Where are the good deals?” Most of those people never make it out there and spend time with them. And who do you think they’re going to send the deals to once they have one? The tire kickers who never bothered to get on a plane or the person who went and took them out to coffee and spent half a day with them driving around, asking questions, showing that they’re serious, that stuff matters. It’s not just an agent’s job to woo you. You have to do the same. You have to show that you’re serious. Agents have a lot of their time wasted by people who are never going to buy a deal.
And as an out-of-state investor, you need to think hard about how you work your way up that agent’s priority list. If you want the good deals, they want them to answer your phone calls quickly. That’s the number one way you show you’re serious. One, you could write a check and buy a house, but two is showing up and actually being there.

Henry:
Yep.

Dave:
All right. So I think that’s our list. So again, start with this top 10, 20 list. You could do that in a lot of ways. That’s the easy part, but then do the art. Figure out, does it work for your strategy? Do you want to go there? Are you willing to travel there? What’s the price range? What’s the housing stock? What’s the climate and the vibe? All of that stuff is the art of this, and there is no right answer. That’s why Henry and I cannot tell you where to invest. You have to do this for yourself and figure out which of these 10, 20 great markets that have the fundamentals, have the economy, have the jobs, have the population growth, of those, which one best align? And this shouldn’t be that hard. You can go and look up these things, narrow it down to three markets, get your butt on a plane and go visit them, and I promise you, you will have an answer.
I’ve never heard someone who’s gotten on a plane and visited three and not picked a market. I don’t know about you. Never happened to me. Never. So this is part of your ROI. Invest the time and money to figure this out. Not everything can be automated. Not everything has to be this perfectly meticulous system. Some of being an investor is just going and doing the work. It’s not even that hard, but just go do the work.

Henry:
And again, deeper dive into some of those tier one assets I think is important. So yes, you’re going to pick based on job growth and population. But when you get to the market, you may look and see like, “Man, I see population growth here, but I don’t see what the draw is. It doesn’t feel good here.” Or you may go and you see, “Man, I researched that there’s a job growth here.” And then your deeper research may reveal like, “Oh, Microsoft’s building a large data center or something.” But when we went to Racine and we drove by and saw the massive data center operation that they were doing, it was huge.

Dave:
Insane.

Henry:
Huge, huge. That alone would’ve given me a whole lot of comfort in the long-term investability in that market because seeing it with my own two eyes, feeling how close it is to town versus just looking at it on a map, it was different and it will help. You will feel so much better about your decision once you get there and you start to reinforce the research that you’ve done that makes a decision a whole lot easier.

Dave:
Finding a market is just like finding a deal. It’s a funnel. You need to start with a broad number and whittle your way down, but you should be spending the vast majority of your time at the end of the funnel. Picking these top 10 markets, 20 markets, don’t spend time on that. Spend 30 minutes on it. Spend an hour on it. Use Claude, use it, ChatGPT, whatever. Spend the time investing on the relationships, the vibes, the things where you’re excited about it. You should be happy and excited and be like, “This is the city I’m investing in. I love it there. I can’t wait to go back. It’s fun. I want to be a positive member of this community.” Spend time figuring out where you’re going to have that kind of enthusiasm. And if you have that kind of enthusiasm, your deals will go well.
I feel very strongly about that. So you can do this. It’s really not that hard. It’s just investing a little bit of time and effort and hopefully this framework will help you make this decision for yourself. But Henry, what’s the best market in the country? We made everyone listen the whole time and now you’re going to give them your big secret, right?

Henry:
Yeah, exactly. I’m going to tell you one thing my mom told me when I got mad at her because she wouldn’t eat this food that we made. She said it was too spicy. It wasn’t spicy at all. And she said, “Henry, you can’t tell me what’s spicy to my mouth. So I can’t tell you what market is best for you.”

Dave:
Exactly.

Henry:
But hopefully we’ve given you enough criteria for you to go figure it out yourself.

Dave:
It’s Topeka, Kansas. All right, we’re out of here. He’s Henry Washington. I’m Dave Meyer. Thank you all so much for watching this episode of the BiggerPockets Podcast. We’ll see y’all next time.