Hello BP community!
My family and I live in NELA (Highland Park/Eagle Rock) and we had an unpermitted ADU in our backyard. After attempts to get it approved as legal were denied, we demolished the existing structure last fall in order to build a new one.
As of today our contractor informed us that the City of LA told him we cannot get the permits for the ADU UNLESS we completely update our main house to bring it into code. Apparently there's no record of a Certificate of Occupancy issued for our main house. Our main house was built in 1923 and since it's so old, there areas of the house that are not up to code such as insulation, electrical, etc. I don't think it makes financial sense for us to do that just to build a legal ADU.
Has anyone heard of this issue before? I see ADUs being built all across NELA, and I'm completely shocked at this news. If anyone has experienced this or has any advice for us, please let me know. Thank you!
As of the start of 2023, I believe the jurisdiction is not legally allowed to not permit the ADU for existing permit violations on existing structures. See SB897. Ideally just referencing this would be sufficient to show they cannot prevent an ADU for the reason they are trying to use.
The issue is HCD has shown to be toothless. Jurisdictions that ignore the rules seem to be able to get away with it. So this may take a while, but I suspect eventually the jurisdiction will relent.
As other post has already stated, the units built prior have different rules. Unfortunately, I am experiencing an issue in San Diego county (City of Escondido) that I got a code violation for something that may have been done before permit was required. The jurisdiction is making me prove it was done prior to the need for permit. How am I going to do that? Seeing they marked it as a permit violation, you think it would fall on them to show that the work was performed after the need for a permit. I did not fight it as I expected the permit process to be reasonable, but now I wish I had fought it more as I have had multiple issues getting the permit. It is stupid bureaucratic items. I think it is crazy.
Good luck
I haven't run across this myself, but it depends on the specific area. Some areas have overlays that can really limit what you're able to do, i.e. historical preservation overlays, community design overlays, etc. Along with the fact that your property never received a CFO, this could be something where you have to abide by a specific overlay or specific plan in order to build the ADU. I'm not exactly sure what it could be without hearing more of the situation and doing a study on the property. If you'd like, we can connect and I'll do more due diligence
I was in a similar situation with my ADU in NELA but with different results.
First, C of Os were not issued until the 40s, properties built before that may not have a record of a C of O that have not changed floor plan/footprint since original construction.
I have three units built in 1930 in NELA and only was reissued a C of O after extensive renovation. This was because we did a value add and was part of the plan. Not a requirement for owning.
You can search your house for an RSO certificate (registered rent control unit) or go to El Monte assessors office and search the hand written plot maps based on APNs. This is what we used to show we are grandfathered in. These hand written maps are usually not on the website and we were able to stitch together the story of our property in terms of when the additions were build and approx foot print.
As for demolishing you main house, were you looking to do a JADU (attached) or ADU (detached)? Unless you have documented safety or building code violations (called code 91 violations on LADBS site), that doesn't make sense. When we converted our detached ADU, contractor nor inspector looked at the other units.
What I can see as a requirement is electrical and plumbing. If you are adding an ADU, you'll need to install a 125 amp panel, which is not condusive with old electrical panels or knob and tube wiring, which is very common in our neighborhood. We had to do that.
As of the start of 2023, I believe the jurisdiction is not legally allowed to not permit the ADU for existing permit violations on existing structures. See SB897. Ideally just referencing this would be sufficient to show they cannot prevent an ADU for the reason they are trying to use.
The issue is HCD has shown to be toothless. Jurisdictions that ignore the rules seem to be able to get away with it. So this may take a while, but I suspect eventually the jurisdiction will relent.
As other post has already stated, the units built prior have different rules. Unfortunately, I am experiencing an issue in San Diego county (City of Escondido) that I got a code violation for something that may have been done before permit was required. The jurisdiction is making me prove it was done prior to the need for permit. How am I going to do that? Seeing they marked it as a permit violation, you think it would fall on them to show that the work was performed after the need for a permit. I did not fight it as I expected the permit process to be reasonable, but now I wish I had fought it more as I have had multiple issues getting the permit. It is stupid bureaucratic items. I think it is crazy.
Good luck
Thanks everyone for the feedback.
@Matt Giacinto - I will send you a DM.
@Jonathan Taylor - We are looking to do an ADU (detached). According to the Contractor, the City said although the ADU is an entirely separate structure, the main house and the future ADU are somehow "related" being on the same property so the main house must first be in code.
Pardon my complete ignorance here, but I just looked up our records again on LADBS and there's two "Certificate of Occupancy" documents obtained by the previous owners in 2002 - One for a kitchen remodel and one for a deck extension. Are those not valid C of O we could use to help our case here, if the C of O ends up being a reason this project is being held up?
@Dan H.- I just called another contractor and he mentioned SB897. Will look into it further!
@Erin T. I don't want to sit here and judge your contractor because I don't know them but is it possible that they're lying to you in order to get you to spend more money? I'd try getting some answers from your city directly.
Like the previous person said, a new adu law just passed where it suppose to be easier to get an unpermmitted ADU permitted without necessarily making you tear down the old one. New law also passed where you don't really have to do much modification to the main home unless you have planned a larger ADU square footage wise. What square footage were you going to build?
I know you can't go back and change anything but in the future, I would've drafted my ADU plans and make sure they're approved before tearing down anything because in the event this doesn't work out, you tore down the unpermitted adu for nothing. Good luck to you. I've heard the city/county of LA isn't the easiest to work with when it comes to ADUs.
@Erin T. the exact line in the updated ADU laws that @Dan H. and @Eddie Torres is 65852.2(d)(2), which says "The local agency shall not deny an application for a permit to create an accessory dwelling unit due to the correction of nonconforming zoning conditions, building code violations, or unpermitted structures that do not present a threat to public health and safety and are not affected by the construction of the accessory dwelling unit."
We design, permit, and build ADUs in LA City all the time, and so I feel pretty confident in saying that you have a good chance at getting this new unit permitted without having to do anything to your main house (beyond potentially upgrading some utilities so your ADU can be served).
Hopefully this is just an honest mistake by your contractor, or a situation where an LADBS employee is giving out bad information (it happens all the time and you really need to be educated on all of the laws in order to realize when this is happening to you)!
@Erin T. That sounds like it would if there is a registered history of C of O, but @Eddie Torres brought up an option. Getting second, third and fourth opinions can help here since it sounds like this request is throwing all of us for a loop.
Thanks everyone for the further suggestions.
@Eddie Torres - We had only planned on a 500sqft structure...
We'll try reaching out to City directly and getting multiple second opinions.