This might sound dumb but... What else can I be learning?

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This might sound dumb but... What else can I be learning?

Brandon Stiles
Northwest Arkansas · Member since 2023 · 58 posts · 20 votes

I've been wanting to get into REI for awhile now and I've spent the last 4 or 5 months going down the rabbit hole.... Researching and taking notes, reading through the forums, reading books, listening to podcasts, studying my market and I've hit a point where I don't really know what else I can be learning. I already have experience working on the construction side of things so I've been trying to learn everything I can on the business side of things and it was exhilarating the first 4 or 5 months but I've hit a point where I feel like I just need to buy that first house and start getting real world experience.

I'm not claiming I'm an expert and I know everything because that would be ridiculous. I just feel like I've run out of things to learn and dont know where to find more in depth information about flipping and SFRs specifically as thats the path I'm wanting to take. I know I'm not an expert because the thought of buying my first house is still scary and I dont know every single thing I would do but I feel like I've hit the point where I just need to do it to learn it.

Can anyone recommend books or podcasts or other resources that I can use to continue my education?

Do you think this is paralysis by analysis?

Thanks in advance.

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Joe VilleneuvePro Member
Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
2y

"Is there anything else to learn"?

ALWAYS.

What that is?

You'll know when you learn it.

Learning never ends.  When it does, you lose.

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  • Antonio Boutros
    Member since 2023 · 4 posts · 2 votes
    2y

    There IS such thing as too much knowledge. You need APPLIED knowledge, without application your knowledge is meaningless 

    0Reply
  • David F.
    Member since 2018 · 113 posts · 135 votes
    2y

    I have read this entire thread up to this point and it sounds like you’re ready to take the leap. I recommend buying a house when you find a deal that meets your criteria. 

    I recommend being patient and buying at a discount, a.k.a. buying equity, as it’s your Safety net. But ultimately you have to take the leap. Sounds like you’re in a (hopefully) appreciating market, so that’s a benefit as well.  


    Scott Trench says it well…. carefully put together your “buy box”, be patient in waiting for that (realistic) deal to come, have your financing in order, and be mentally and emotionally ready to pull the trigger when you come across that deal. Don’t waste time, act decisively, but calmly.

    You can do this! Keep surrounding yourself with the winners and keep reaching out for help. And make sure you have a safety net if things go poorly.

    It wouldn’t surprise me if you’re crushing it in 5 years, I’ve heard great things about NW AK.

    1Reply
  • Peter W.
    Member since 2020 · 351 posts · 329 votes
    2y

    I agree with others about jumping in. 

    But that wasn’t the question I would suggest reading up on your local laws especially with regard to tenant-landlord relationships and building codes. 
    I would also considering drafting a lease so you aren’t doing it on the clock as well as your procedures for tenant screening.

    0Reply
  • Henry ClarkPro Member
    Developer · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    2y

    Lot of reading. 

    No where do you mention doing deal analysis.  Have you been picking properties and doing deal analysis?  You need to do those so you can weigh what deals fit your buy box.

    Then calculate FAILURE.  Do different scenarios.  Lost rent for 3 months, hvac goes out, need a roof, Tenant turns over twice in a year, interest rate or downpayment is a little higher, etc.  

    Your house is your best first investment.  
    ADU, can you subdivide excess land, STR, rent addl room/ room hack, etc.

    If this is your primary and you sale.  $250,000 or $500,000 is tax free if primary 2 out of 5 years.

    Then move up to a bigger house or with more land.  That you can add value to or subdivide land, or finish the basement,   Buy the worst house in an expensive neighborhood.  Do your magic touches to it and add sweat equity.  Etc. Get creative.  

    Less scary.  You have more control.  Fewer unknowns.  Both downpayment, interest rate and financing should be better.  

    1Reply
  • Henry ClarkPro Member
    Developer · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    2y

    Use the lookup function in the Starting out section. My Name and any post with me for in it.

    0Reply
  • Kristina Kyle
    New to Real Estate · Louisville, KY · Member since 2023 · 15 posts · 7 votes
    2y

    Hey!

    First off, kudos on the extensive research and prep you've done over the past few months! It definitely seems like you've built a solid foundation.

    Transitioning from the learning phase to taking that first step can be a bit nerve-wracking, but as you mentioned, sometimes the best way to learn is by doing.

    Have you ever thought about attending conferences or larger networking events? I think they offer a good mix of educational information but also the some of the best opportunities to connect with other investors—hear their stories...successes, failures, etc. and learn about real-world deals they've actually done themselves.

    Continue to be curious, talk to as many people as you can about what you've been doing, what you'd like to do, problems you're stuck on, deals you're considering jumping into...the more information you have, the better.

    I've found that most people are more than happy to help you out on your journey by answering questions, sharing strategies that work for them, and sharing mistakes they've made to help you avoid making the same ones yourself.

    And there's ALWAYS something new that can be learned in this industry. At REI conferences that I've attended, even investors with 20+ years of experience learn something new and get inspired by the energy of the event and connections they make there.

    Wishing you success on your journey!

    Best,

    Kristina

    0Reply
  • Brandon Stiles
    OP
    Northwest Arkansas · Member since 2023 · 58 posts · 20 votes
    2y

    @David Fern Thanks David. I think I will start focusing more time and energy on analyzing deals and coming up with a plan to find off market deals. In my area it's extremely rare to find deals on MLS so I need to come up with a realistic strategy for finding off market deals. Do you have experience buying off market? If so, are there any strategies you would recommend over others?

    0Reply
  • Brandon Stiles
    OP
    Northwest Arkansas · Member since 2023 · 58 posts · 20 votes
    2y

    @Peter W. Thanks for the advice. As far as drafting a lease, do most people just use templates and revise them to fit their needs?

    0Reply
  • Brandon Stiles
    OP
    Northwest Arkansas · Member since 2023 · 58 posts · 20 votes
    2y

    @Henry Clark Thanks for the advice Henry. You brought up a lot of valid points and it gives me a good idea of where I should be focusing more of my attention. I'll start looking into the forums you've mentioned as well.

    0Reply
  • Brandon Stiles
    OP
    Northwest Arkansas · Member since 2023 · 58 posts · 20 votes
    2y

    @Kristina Kyle Thanks Kristina! I actually attended my forst local BP/REI meetup yesterday and it went pretty well! I'll admit I was a little nervous, but I've already made a few connections and I'm definitely look forward to going back next month.

    1Reply
  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Sam McCormack:
    Quote from @Brandon Stiles:

    I've been wanting to get into REI for awhile now and I've spent the last 4 or 5 months going down the rabbit hole.... Researching and taking notes, reading through the forums, reading books, listening to podcasts, studying my market and I've hit a point where I don't really know what else I can be learning. I already have experience working on the construction side of things so I've been trying to learn everything I can on the business side of things and it was exhilarating the first 4 or 5 months but I've hit a point where I feel like I just need to buy that first house and start getting real world experience.

    I'm not claiming I'm an expert and I know everything because that would be ridiculous. I just feel like I've run out of things to learn and dont know where to find more in depth information about flipping and SFRs specifically as thats the path I'm wanting to take. I know I'm not an expert because the thought of buying my first house is still scary and I dont know every single thing I would do but I feel like I've hit the point where I just need to do it to learn it.

    Can anyone recommend books or podcasts or other resources that I can use to continue my education?

    Do you think this is paralysis by analysis?

    Thanks in advance.


     Continue your education by jumping in

    It's true you will learn by doing, but that should never be the reason you jump in.
    2Reply
  • Wale LawalBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Houston | Dallas | Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    @Brandon Stiles

    It's fantastic that you've taken the effort to educate yourself about building and real estate investment. Now that you're ready to go on, the following sites might offer additional perspectives and useful advice for your practical experience:

    BiggerPockets Podcasts: BiggerPockets is a fantastic resource for real estate investors. The podcast covers a wide range of topics, featuring experienced investors, and it's a great way to gain insights from real-world experiences.

    Books:

    "The Book on Rental Property Investing" by Brandon Turner:
    Written by one of the hosts of the BiggerPockets Podcast, this book is a comprehensive guide to building wealth with rental properties.

    "The Millionaire Real Estate Investor" by Gary Keller:
    Co-founder of Keller Williams Realty, Gary Keller, shares the principles and strategies that successful investors use to build wealth in real estate.

    "The ABCs of Real Estate Investing" by Ken McElroy:
    Ken McElroy, a real estate advisor to Robert Kiyosaki, provides practical advice for investing in real estate and growing a profitable portfolio.

    Remember, although education is necessary, taking action is also critical. As you proceed, take use of your prior building knowledge and don't be reluctant to apply what you've learned to the actual world. It's probable that your real estate investment career will be replete with setbacks and successes, both of which will help you develop as an investor. I hope your real estate investing endeavors are fruitful!

    [email protected]832-776-9582Podcast Guest on Show #469
    NETWORTH BUILDERS5236 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • David F.
    Member since 2018 · 113 posts · 135 votes
    2y

    @Brandon Stiles Yes I do you have a little bit of experience buying off market. I bought our first few SFH on market (2015-2020), the last few off market (2021-2023). I got away with buying on the MLS because it was during a big appreciation run up in my region, so we were fortunate, but I don't wanna do that today, I need to buy at a discount to mitigate risk. Prices are flattening in my region, and in my area there's very few, if any, deals on the MLS t right now.

    I have a few different jobs, and am a busy guy, so I quickly found out that reaching out to sellers myself (which costs time and money) was not the way I wanted to go. A ton of people on BP do their own reaching out to the seller, and ultimately, it’s how you can secure the best deals, but it does cost money, and it would take time that I don’t have.

    So I decided to go the next best route for me, which is personally reaching out to all the wholesalers in the area, introducing myself, and telling them my criteria. Letting them know I am ready to buy. I've also done the same at a few REIA events. My last few deals have come through relationships I've built this way. Not to mention I've made a couple friends as well, really cool stuff.
    REI has really neat people in it if you're looking for them.


    Buying from a wholesaler usually means cash, no inspection, and sometimes sight unseen. I always need to see it, and if there’s no inspection it needs to be at a discount that matches the risk. I recommend you ask local wholesalers what their process is for their off market deals. 

    Hope this helps!

    2Reply
  • Christie Gahan
    Investor · Hillsboro, OR · Member since 2016 · 304 posts · 153 votes
    2y

    What to learn?  TAX Strategy.  Pretend you had an awesome year. How are you going to keep it?

    0Reply
  • Jerryian Francois
    Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2017 · 76 posts · 37 votes
    2y

    congratulations on your journey I strongly agree with hands on training go out there and get your first deal education is a consistent variable in your journey it never goes away and your always going to have to keep learning I would say to focus on your resources on how your able to get into a deal now .. do you have funds ? What’s the exit strategy ? What niche you’re trying to attack that fits your current situation ? Does this niche align with the main goal ? What is the main goal ? Will you have to partner up ? These questions & answers should give you a sense of direction and hopefully get you to pull that move on your first purchase good luck out there !!! 

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Accountant · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 552 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Christie Gahan:

    What to learn?  TAX Strategy.  Pretend you had an awesome year. How are you going to keep it?


     100% agree with this. I lost over 500k in my personal investing journey because I chased the wrong things to save money on taxes and ended up getting scammed. Learn from me please! 

    0Reply
  • Christie Gahan
    Investor · Hillsboro, OR · Member since 2016 · 304 posts · 153 votes
    2y

    Ouch.

    Okay, I'll learn from you. What is the story? 

    0Reply
  • Brandon Stiles
    OP
    Northwest Arkansas · Member since 2023 · 58 posts · 20 votes
    2y

    @Christie Gahan Thanks for the advice. I'm planning focusing on flips the first few years and eventually work my way up to BRRRRs. I was thinking about creating an s-corp to avoid some of the SE taxes on the flips. Do you have any other suggestions on how to reduce taxable income from flips?

    0Reply
  • Brandon Stiles
    OP
    Northwest Arkansas · Member since 2023 · 58 posts · 20 votes
    2y

    @Jerryian Francois Thanks for the advice. You brought up some great points and it gives me a good idea of where I should be focusing my attention. Do you have any advice for finding off market deals without being a 100% cash buyer? I feel like I wouldn't be taken seriously without being a full cash buyer when cold calling or doing direct mail etc.

    0Reply
  • Dave SpoonerPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2020 · 869 posts · 823 votes
    2y

    I like the hunger to learn more! I do think going out there and having experience is the best teacher. If you are in the place to house hack I would start going that route, especially since you're starting out. Best of Luck!

    [email protected]
    0Reply
  • Christie Gahan
    Investor · Hillsboro, OR · Member since 2016 · 304 posts · 153 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Brandon Stiles:

    @Christie Gahan Thanks for the advice. I'm planning focusing on flips the first few years and eventually work my way up to BRRRRs. I was thinking about creating an s-corp to avoid some of the SE taxes on the flips. Do you have any other suggestions on how to reduce taxable income from flips?


    Start asking around for a good accountant. This is not someone who prepares your tax returns. You will need someone who will strategize with you. They will probably work with other small business owners. There is a strategy to run short term rentals to off set income but there are a lot of rules. Congress will probably change up the rules between now and then so I wouldn't worry about a deep dive in that now. There are lots of tax advantaged accounts for retirement and health savings accounts. Read up on "The Back Door IRA" "The Back Door Roth". The basic idea is that you put as much in to retirement accounts as possible. ( You can then convert to a Roth) You change the retirement account to a self directed account. This will allow you to invest in real estate with your retirement funds. Important: Once it is in a retirement account it needs to stay there. You will pay taxes and fees and crap if you take it out. The retirement accounts do nothing to help you pay your day to day bills. Nothing. The retirement funds build wealth. This year if you did all the retirement funds allowed and switched them to self directed to buy real estate... you could put away about $65k. ( Sorry, I don't remember the exact amount.) Do this for 3 years and you have about $200k. You can really do a lot with that. You are now running a small business inside a tax free account. There are a lot of rules. The government isn't gonna make it easy for you. The bummer with flipping is that you are self employed and are gonna pay state, federal, social security.... Almost 65% of what you make goes away. You need the money to stick to you. At some point, if you have enough cash to pay your daily bills... partner with an investor. The two of you form an LLC. The LLC buys the property. The investor is dealing with the loan and down payment. You bring to the table that you are doing the work and don't have to be paid an income because you are part owner. Sell a year and a day later. You are now taking profit from an investment. This is long term capital gains. Fed tax rate starts at 10%. No social security. With the tax advantages, you will keep twice the money that you would if you got paid immediately. Sorry this is so long.

    0Reply
  • Richard Loniewski
    Real Estate Agent · NJ · Member since 2021 · 566 posts · 127 votes
    2y

    Learn how to analyze deals, build your team (realtors, contractors, lenders) start networking and learning from real investors. you will never know everything. Start finding properties and make offers!

    0Reply
  • Brandon Stiles
    OP
    Northwest Arkansas · Member since 2023 · 58 posts · 20 votes
    2y

    @Christie Gahan Wow thanks for the detailed response! Definitely gives me a lot to think about. That 65% number is a little unsettling though... If I dont have employees I would only be paying ordinary income tax plus 15.3% for SE tax on my "salary" if I create an LLC taxed as an S Corp correct? I was thinking it would be closer to 40% under 500k income.

    0Reply
  • Brandon Stiles
    OP
    Northwest Arkansas · Member since 2023 · 58 posts · 20 votes
    2y

    @Richard Loniewski How would you suggest going about building relationships with lenders? Since I'm just starting out and dont have a proven track record to show, what can I do to stand out/make them want to help me? Should I just shop around on my first deal and try to stick with one lender and become buddies? Or should I be using different lenders on each property until I have a few I can go back and forth between so I can build multiple relationships? 

    0Reply
  • Jake AndronicoBusiness Member
    Realtor · Reno, NV · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 938 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Brandon Stiles:

    I've been wanting to get into REI for awhile now and I've spent the last 4 or 5 months going down the rabbit hole.... Researching and taking notes, reading through the forums, reading books, listening to podcasts, studying my market and I've hit a point where I don't really know what else I can be learning. I already have experience working on the construction side of things so I've been trying to learn everything I can on the business side of things and it was exhilarating the first 4 or 5 months but I've hit a point where I feel like I just need to buy that first house and start getting real world experience.

    I'm not claiming I'm an expert and I know everything because that would be ridiculous. I just feel like I've run out of things to learn and dont know where to find more in depth information about flipping and SFRs specifically as thats the path I'm wanting to take. I know I'm not an expert because the thought of buying my first house is still scary and I dont know every single thing I would do but I feel like I've hit the point where I just need to do it to learn it.

    Can anyone recommend books or podcasts or other resources that I can use to continue my education?

    Do you think this is paralysis by analysis?

    Thanks in advance.

    What I love about real estate is it's not rocket science. But, I will not discount how large of a decision it is to jump in and taking the leap will always feel scary, you'll have feelings of doubt, uneasiness, uncertainty, etc. 

    As @Andrew Postell said try to meet local investors and ask about their first hand experiences. Most likely you'll hear a ton of different strategies/successes because there are so many ways to succeed. 

    Do what you understand, what seems logical, and having construction knowledge is a massive advantage in my opinion. 

    Who has the life you want, and how did they get there? Can you get there with what YOU understand? 

    Best of luck to you!! 

    415-233-1796
    0Reply
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