Making the jump to a second property

Making the jump to a second property

Member since 2021 · 5 posts · 3 votes

Hey all, 

Thank you for taking the time to read this and help me out. My wife and I purchased our first property two years ago in Salt Lake City for a good rate at 4.29%.  We spent the last year remodeling the basement ourselves and currently have our first medium term renter (We fully furnished the unit to squeeze more rent out).  It's rented at $1950 a month, and our mortgage is $2,650.  With this we will be able to save quite a bit more for future purchases.  

Now If we rent our upstairs as a long term unit (for less vacancy), we estimate to be able to cash flow around $800-1000 depending on vacancy.  This is very intriguing to use for obvious reasons.  

However, in the past two years with rates going up and the housing prices climbing in our area, even if we do the same process with buying a home, fixing up the basement, renting, etc we'd be a lot closer to just breaking even come a few years time, if that.  Unless rates decrease a good amount that is.  We have a decent amount of savings, at least enough for a down payment and closing costs on our next home, but the buying power just seems so limited in our area. 

I guess what I'm getting at is it seems like our options are either bite the bullet in our next primary residence where we are currently located, understanding the future opportunity to rent for cash flow looks pretty bleak, or look in other states where we would have more buying power and try to find a duplex or sfh that will cash flow off the bat.  I know the rates right now are making this harder, but I have heard some success stories in Ohio and even Indiana.  I'd be up for the challenge of a little fixing up, even furnishing and making it a medium term rental. I do understand there is risk with finding a good network out of state of contractors and property managers. 

Anyways, there's my background and questions, any help or experience in this area is greatly appreciated so I don't make a decision I might regret! :)

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Zach BossonBusiness Member
Lender · Member since 2023 · 42 posts · 15 votes
2y

Hey Tanner!

Congrats on a great investment, being able to rent the upstairs and cash flow your current home is great!

Your concern is a good one, buying in this market at high rates = high payments and you may not cashflow if you were to repeat the process.

However, 2 considerations.
(1) By not doing it you don't have 800-1000 in your pocket, so although the payment on the new place might be higher than in a normal market you've got extra funds to cover it.

(2) Your new rate is not forever, perhaps in this high rate market, it's as you say, best case you're breaking even if you repeat this process. But in say 2-5 years when rates drop and you refinance into a lower rate, then you're cash flowing! Obviously that's not guaranteed, but experts figure it's likely.

I would be happy to PreQualify and talk shop - personally I'm on home #4 doing the exact strategy you outlined, home #5 incoming, rates aren't slowing me down.

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  • Jason WrayPro Member
    Banker · Nationwide · Member since 2020 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    Tanner,

    I am not sure where you are located but first rule of buying in real estate is for a positive NOI where the rents are equal to or greater than the PITI payment. If your rent is at $1950 with a mortgage of $2650 your negative (-$700) cash flow. That means you are paying money to have someone rent your investment property unless you can rent for another $1000.00.

    My first question would be what is your equity position on the home? What is the home worth versus what you owe on the mortgage. If you do not have enough equity in the home you may want to sell it to break even or 1031 exchange into a property with a positive cash flow.

    Unless you are in California there are multiple States or Counties to buy a good investment property that can cash flow. You also want to avoid throwing a bunch of money at Vanity items and furniture. When you do that you put too much money into a Non ROI type of investment. I would be interested in talking to you to offer some tips and advice and find out your REI portfolio goals. Feel free to reach out I am always happy to help and talk REI!

  • Member since 2021 · 5 posts · 3 votes
    2y

    Thanks Jason, let me clarify. We are in Salt Lake City, and It's only our basement that is rented, should we move and rent our upstairs as a long term lease it should bring in an additional $1800, bringing our rents to $3,750 and cash flow to roughly $800-$1,000 monthly. We are currently occupying the upstairs. 

    I would not like to sell that home, as we have a lot of upside when we move to rent and cash flow. I am trying to decide whether to buy another home here or buy an investment out of state. 

  • Member since 2024 · 20 posts · 9 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Tanner Webb:

    Thanks Jason, let me clarify. We are in Salt Lake City, and It's only our basement that is rented, should we move and rent our upstairs as a long term lease it should bring in an additional $1800, bringing our rents to $3,750 and cash flow to roughly $800-$1,000 monthly. We are currently occupying the upstairs. 

    I would not like to sell that home, as we have a lot of upside when we move to rent and cash flow. I am trying to decide whether to buy another home here or buy an investment out of state. 

    Do you have an option to rent out the basement, and also rent out the upstairs? Then, you could find another home to make that your primary. 
  • Zach BossonBusiness Member
    Lender · Member since 2023 · 42 posts · 15 votes
    2y

    Hey Tanner!

    Congrats on a great investment, being able to rent the upstairs and cash flow your current home is great!

    Your concern is a good one, buying in this market at high rates = high payments and you may not cashflow if you were to repeat the process.

    However, 2 considerations.
    (1) By not doing it you don't have 800-1000 in your pocket, so although the payment on the new place might be higher than in a normal market you've got extra funds to cover it.

    (2) Your new rate is not forever, perhaps in this high rate market, it's as you say, best case you're breaking even if you repeat this process. But in say 2-5 years when rates drop and you refinance into a lower rate, then you're cash flowing! Obviously that's not guaranteed, but experts figure it's likely.

    I would be happy to PreQualify and talk shop - personally I'm on home #4 doing the exact strategy you outlined, home #5 incoming, rates aren't slowing me down.

  • Alecia LovelessPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    @Tanner Webb Rates aren’t slowing me down too much, but given current markets the ability to cash flow significantly has slowed.

    I looked out of state but eventually came to the conclusion after studying 4 markets in depth that staying local where I’m in control and have excellent systems in place just made more sense. My appreciation locally remains better than what I could find in a Midwest market.

    In investigating the out of state markets I determined that the more inexpensive options were just not properties I would want to own because they were in too bad a condition and renovation costs would make them comparable in price to what I can get locally. And I would be creating a new team that I just didn’t know I could rely on.

  • Bradley BuxtonBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · NV · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 720 votes
    2y

    @Tanner Webb

    As @Zach Bosson said your overall portfolio can make money even though you might be losing on another house.  Have you looked at other markets close to SLC like Ogden?  There seems to be less expensive properties in that area and it's a quick trip down to SLC. In the Reno, NV market there are still up and coming areas that are near the high rent areas which are ideal places to invest, does SLC still have those neighborhoods. The long game the appreciation is where you will be building more wealth than a 500 or 1000 per month cash flow.  That money is best used for an emergency fund and to find your next property.  If you're after pure cash flow your strategy might be different. 

  • Member since 2020 · 351 posts · 329 votes
    2y

    If you can buy a new primary, that seems like the way to go without running numbers. I am of the mindset it is better to invest in your own backyard than somewhere else. Plus you’ll get a better rate as a primary than an investment property. Move in, fix, rent, repeat is one of the better strategies you have until kids.

  • Investor · WNY/CNY/Adirondacks, New York State · Member since 2024 · 151 posts · 133 votes
    2y

    You're doing great with your MTR!  It doesn't sound like you're ready to buy another property.  You could keep stashing your savings until you are at a point when you feel ready.  I wouldn't buy OOS unless you are wanting a vacation place in a specific area.  Out of town rentals are really difficult.

  • Samuel DioufBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus & Cleveland, OH · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    Hey Tanner, Columbus, Ohio is a great market to consider if you're leaning towards appreciation and want to go the OOS route. Multiple, billion dollar companies are investing heavy in our area, such as Intel, Google, and Amazon. Which will bring plenty of other investors and general business to the area. I moved here from Florida after seeing the projected growth.

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