Is now a good time?

Is now a good time?

Tulsa, OK · Member since 2013 · 11 posts · 0 votes

Real estate investing has been my dream for years, and I'm eager to start! I thought it would be an good idea to get my feet wet by buying a house and renting out the extra rooms to roommates. But is now the right time? First of all, I'd be getting my down payment as a loan from my parents and the max they'll lend me is $20k for 5 years at 4% ($370 per month), so the most house I can guy is for $100k, but even then the debt burden would be pretty high ($80k for 30 years at 4.75 is $420 a month, for a combined monthly payment of approx. $800), so I probably wouldn't be able to break even when expenses are factored in. If I got roommates (which isn't a sure thing) that would bring the cost of living down considerably, but there is still the second issue: according to several realtors, it's a "seller's" market right now, so it's almost impossible to get a house at a discount (my target is 20%). So I'll have to either buy at market, or at a premium, or a serious fixer upper (I don't have the skills to do it myself, nor the money to pay someone else). So between the debt burden and the demand exceeding the supply, is now a good time to jump into my first property? Or would it be better just to rent an apartment, save money for a down payment, and wait until the market become more favorable to buyers?

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Eric FernwoodBusiness Member
Realtor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2014 · 991 posts · 1k+ votes
11y

Hello @Brett Vandervort ,

You should listen to @Hattie Dizmond on getting a loan. As long as it is a 1 to 4 unit property you should be able to get financing (or your parents can get the loan). As to whether it is a good time to buy? I see two aspects of this question:

• Is this a good time for you and your parents? This is a financial & emotional decision and I have no ability to comment on this.

• It is a good time to buy? Here I can offer some advice.

In my opinion, there is never a good time or bad time to buy. There are only good deals and unacceptable deals. Even during a sellers market there may still be good deals available but they will take more effort to find. And, if you cannot find a good deal, do nothing. You can never afford a bad deal. What constitutes a good deal? Properties which generate sustained positive cash flow and are likely to appreciate. These two goals sound simple but they are not; especially in multiunit properties. First, sustained profitability. Generating a sustained positive cash-flow includes:

• Buying the property at the right price vs. rent. Simplistically, Rent > Recurring Expenses + Profit. Recurring Expenses include: Debt Service, Insurance, Taxes, Periodic Fees, etc. I will tell you how to make a quick investigate/forget decision later.

• Keeping good tenants in the property. I define a good tenant as one who: pays all of the rent on schedule, takes care of the property, does not cause problems with neighbors, does not engage in illegal activities on the property and stays for multiple years. Never rent to friends and family.

• Buying a property in acceptable condition. Many of the multiunit properties I see (I am a Realtor in Las Vegas and my practice is almost exclusively remote investors so I am always looking for properties that meet the dual goals of profitability and appreciation.) in Las Vegas are not in good condition and require significant upfront capital investment. I do not think this is a possibility in your consideration.

• Stable or growing job market - Rental property profitability is totally dependent on employed tenants. The property must be in a job market area that is at least very stable but preferably growing.

• Control maintenance cost. Do you have the skills to fix the things that will fail? If not, do you know a cost effective handyman?

There are other factors but the above is a good start. On the second goal of potential appreciation, this is quite different from single family properties. If you buy a single family property and later decide to sell it, there are two categories of potential buyers: individual owners and investors. If property prices are rising in the area, the value of a single family property will rise with it and the highest offer is likely to come from an individual wanting the property as a residence. With multifamily properties, the primary buyers are other investors and investors focus on return more than area values (although area values are a component). So, for investors, the key valuation component is rising rents. Rents rise (ignoring inflation and such economic factors) on increased demand. The key components of demand include a combination of the following:

• Low crime. High crime and appreciation do not go together.

• Sustained population growth of people who can and will rent your type of property.

• A stable area in which people desire to live and have good schools.

• Sustained job growth.

In my practice I have to quickly evaluate a lot of properties so I developed a tool for doing what I call a quick investigate/forget decision. You ( and anyone else) are welcome to use the tool. Here is the link and below is a screen shot. Watch the getting started video for details but simplistically all you have to do is enter the estimated rent and some other known factors and click Estimate. The resulting amount is the purchase price where rent = recurring expenses + profit.

Remember that the only value of this tool is to decide whether to take the time to investigate the property or to forget it. As an example, suppose you are considering a multiunit property matching the following:

• Rent: A 4-plex and the rents are 2 @ $500 and 2 @ $600/mo. So, your total gross rent is $2,200. Based on your research a 9% vacancy rate is a reasonable estimate so I would use ($2,200 x (1 - 9%) = $2,000 as the rent.

• Monthly Fees: Suppose you end up paying water and sewage and that averages out to be $200/Mo.

• Your goal is a 10% profit (a very good return these days).

• Financing: The terms of your loan is 20% down, 30 year, 5%.

• Real Estate Tax: 1%/Yr

• Insurance: $600/Yr

• Management: You manage the property yourself (A very bad idea but that is another issue.)

Enter these numbers into the estimator, click Estimate and you will see that the break-even price is about $300,000. So, if you think you would have to pay $310,000 for the property, forget it and look for another. If you think you could get the property for $260,000 then it is time to get the spread sheet out and really investigate the property taking into account rehab costs, existing leases, etc.

So:

• Under ideal conditions, a project like this is going to take a lot of time and effort, if everything goes well. Do you have the time?

• There will always be unplanned expenses so in addition to the down payment and initial rehab you need a cash reserve. Are your parent's up for this?

• Managing a property is not an easy task. I wrote an article once about the most popular ways to fail. Managing your own properties is on that list.

Brett, I hope the above helps.

FERNWOOD Team, KW VIP Realty520 Reviews
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  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Brett Vandervort 

    A couple of things...is there some reason you wouldn't qualify for a 3.5% down FHA owner occupied loan? You could get a $200k loan with only $7,000 down, which would reduce your debt load to your parents.

    I'd look into a small multifamily (<= 4 units).  You can rent out the other units for more than you'll ever be able to rent out a bedroom.  You might be able to get your entire mortgage paid.

    It is a seller's market, which means you need to look harder and deeper to find the deals, but the deals are there to be found.

  • Investor · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2013 · 643 posts · 280 votes
    11y

    @Brett Vandervort Welcome to BP and to Real Estate investing. I agree with @Hattie Dizmond If you can get into a small multi-family (2-4 units), you'll be able to have a relatively low down payment and great interest rate. It is a pretty safe and easy way to get into investing. As far as finding a deal, you'll just need to keep looking. I hope the pieces come together for you.

    Mike

  • Eric FernwoodBusiness Member
    Realtor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2014 · 991 posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    Hello @Brett Vandervort ,

    You should listen to @Hattie Dizmond on getting a loan. As long as it is a 1 to 4 unit property you should be able to get financing (or your parents can get the loan). As to whether it is a good time to buy? I see two aspects of this question:

    • Is this a good time for you and your parents? This is a financial & emotional decision and I have no ability to comment on this.

    • It is a good time to buy? Here I can offer some advice.

    In my opinion, there is never a good time or bad time to buy. There are only good deals and unacceptable deals. Even during a sellers market there may still be good deals available but they will take more effort to find. And, if you cannot find a good deal, do nothing. You can never afford a bad deal. What constitutes a good deal? Properties which generate sustained positive cash flow and are likely to appreciate. These two goals sound simple but they are not; especially in multiunit properties. First, sustained profitability. Generating a sustained positive cash-flow includes:

    • Buying the property at the right price vs. rent. Simplistically, Rent > Recurring Expenses + Profit. Recurring Expenses include: Debt Service, Insurance, Taxes, Periodic Fees, etc. I will tell you how to make a quick investigate/forget decision later.

    • Keeping good tenants in the property. I define a good tenant as one who: pays all of the rent on schedule, takes care of the property, does not cause problems with neighbors, does not engage in illegal activities on the property and stays for multiple years. Never rent to friends and family.

    • Buying a property in acceptable condition. Many of the multiunit properties I see (I am a Realtor in Las Vegas and my practice is almost exclusively remote investors so I am always looking for properties that meet the dual goals of profitability and appreciation.) in Las Vegas are not in good condition and require significant upfront capital investment. I do not think this is a possibility in your consideration.

    • Stable or growing job market - Rental property profitability is totally dependent on employed tenants. The property must be in a job market area that is at least very stable but preferably growing.

    • Control maintenance cost. Do you have the skills to fix the things that will fail? If not, do you know a cost effective handyman?

    There are other factors but the above is a good start. On the second goal of potential appreciation, this is quite different from single family properties. If you buy a single family property and later decide to sell it, there are two categories of potential buyers: individual owners and investors. If property prices are rising in the area, the value of a single family property will rise with it and the highest offer is likely to come from an individual wanting the property as a residence. With multifamily properties, the primary buyers are other investors and investors focus on return more than area values (although area values are a component). So, for investors, the key valuation component is rising rents. Rents rise (ignoring inflation and such economic factors) on increased demand. The key components of demand include a combination of the following:

    • Low crime. High crime and appreciation do not go together.

    • Sustained population growth of people who can and will rent your type of property.

    • A stable area in which people desire to live and have good schools.

    • Sustained job growth.

    In my practice I have to quickly evaluate a lot of properties so I developed a tool for doing what I call a quick investigate/forget decision. You ( and anyone else) are welcome to use the tool. Here is the link and below is a screen shot. Watch the getting started video for details but simplistically all you have to do is enter the estimated rent and some other known factors and click Estimate. The resulting amount is the purchase price where rent = recurring expenses + profit.

    Remember that the only value of this tool is to decide whether to take the time to investigate the property or to forget it. As an example, suppose you are considering a multiunit property matching the following:

    • Rent: A 4-plex and the rents are 2 @ $500 and 2 @ $600/mo. So, your total gross rent is $2,200. Based on your research a 9% vacancy rate is a reasonable estimate so I would use ($2,200 x (1 - 9%) = $2,000 as the rent.

    • Monthly Fees: Suppose you end up paying water and sewage and that averages out to be $200/Mo.

    • Your goal is a 10% profit (a very good return these days).

    • Financing: The terms of your loan is 20% down, 30 year, 5%.

    • Real Estate Tax: 1%/Yr

    • Insurance: $600/Yr

    • Management: You manage the property yourself (A very bad idea but that is another issue.)

    Enter these numbers into the estimator, click Estimate and you will see that the break-even price is about $300,000. So, if you think you would have to pay $310,000 for the property, forget it and look for another. If you think you could get the property for $260,000 then it is time to get the spread sheet out and really investigate the property taking into account rehab costs, existing leases, etc.

    So:

    • Under ideal conditions, a project like this is going to take a lot of time and effort, if everything goes well. Do you have the time?

    • There will always be unplanned expenses so in addition to the down payment and initial rehab you need a cash reserve. Are your parent's up for this?

    • Managing a property is not an easy task. I wrote an article once about the most popular ways to fail. Managing your own properties is on that list.

    Brett, I hope the above helps.

    FERNWOOD Team, KW VIP Realty520 Reviews
  • Tulsa, OK · Member since 2013 · 11 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    Great responses! It's been very helpful.

    @Hattie Dizmond : I'm trying to stay away from FHA loans because the PMI payments are for the life of the loan now. They no longer go away once you reach a certain percentage of equity in the property.

    @Eric Fernwood : Excellent and thorough response! It sounds like the best thing to do right now is, painfully enough, nothing. I'll keep saving so I won't need a loan from my parents once I do find the right deal. I do have a couple of questions though. Why is managing your own properties such a bad idea? Wouldn't it make it cash flow better? I respect your experience and opinion, but I've had other investors tell me to manage my own, while others say have a management company do it.

  • Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    @Brett Vandervort 

    Now is an excellent time to buy, but I'm buying all the time. I'd recommend going for the FHA owner occupied 3.5% down mortgage or a similar conventional with 5% down.

    Interest rates are at historic lows.  You should be able to get in the 4-5% range fixed for 30 years.  In my area its still a buyer's market and its a great time to be a buyer with the perfect storm of:

    1. low interest rates.

    2. low prices off peak 2008 prices.

    3.  buyer's market many places.

    I started with nothing and went the room mate route, hack my rental.  (see BP podcast #82 for more of that story from me.)

    I'm a buyer, just bought a FSBO on Fri.

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Brett Vandervort 

    So, at the price point you're looking at, your PMI would be somewhere around $40 - $50 /month. And, if you're really looking at being an investor, you would be looking to refi out of that FHA loan in 12 - 18 months, so that you could leverage the low down payment requirement to get your next property.

    I hear what you're saying, but you really should consider the time value of money, before you make a final decision on that. Run the numbers around the NPV of that 20% down payment on a conventional loan. If you get into a small multi-family, that monthly PMI is nothing, particularly compared to the $300+ /month to your parents.

    Good luck.

  • Tulsa, OK · Member since 2013 · 11 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    @Hattie Dizmond Interesting perspective. Can you elaborate on the refinancing option? I work at a bank, and the maximum term for our refinances is 15 years, and the refinance rate is higher than the mortgage rate by almost 1%. So theoretically I could get out from under the PMI payments, but at a higher rate and a shorter term. Granted I would pay off the property faster this way, but that kills my cash flow.

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Brett Vandervort 

    You would refi into a new mortgage @ 30-years.  Don't know what bank you work for, but I would personally stay away from the big banks.  (I spent 20 years with JPMC, BofA, Wachovia, Ally...etc.)  There's no law that governs refi terms.  That limit of 15-years is lender specific.

  • Tulsa, OK · Member since 2013 · 11 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    @Hattie Dizmond I see. Wouldn't the new mortgage have thousands of dollars worth of closing costs like a regular mortgage? That might negate the savings of getting rid of the PMI payments, and wouldn't contribute anything to the value of the home. And refinancing is based on the equity in the home, and I don't really see how that would solve the PMI issue anyway since I would still be under 20% equity . Please forgive all my questions. I'm just trying to understand creative financing.

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Brett Vandervort The PMI is required by FHA as a condition of insuring the note. One of the points of "seasoning" the mortgage is to show proof of your ability and commitment to service the loan as agreed. I think I may have confused you with my statement you would "refi into a new mortgage". It's still a refi. There are going to be some closing costs associated with it, but you have to look at those costs as an investment, not an expense. Those costs would then allow you to get another FHA, 3.5% down loan, which allows you to get into an additional property well before you would otherwise be able to do that.

    Yes, closing costs are expenses that have to be evaluated in light of the entire deal.  However, It's likely not "thousands" of dollars.  It's likely < $2000.  My point here is that if you are going to look at every cost as a negative, then you might as well look at the interest you're paying on the loan as well and try to payoff the loan ASAP, before moving on to the next property.

    There are costs that are true Expenses...tax, routine maintenance, utilities, etc.  There are also costs that are the Opportunity Costs.  They are the cost to seize upon the next opportunity.   If that $2000 enables you to position yourself to acquire another property that is will generate positive cash flow, about how many months do you think it will take you to recoup that $2000?  At only $200 net cash flow/month, that's a 10 month return.  That is a payback in less time than you will be able to season a mortgage and refi.

    You have to shop around for the best rates & refi terms. But, you also have to look at the picture as a whole and realize that the world of financing extends far beyond what you may have immediate knowledge of. Each lender is different and put a different spin on their products. The only time you're going to get 2 loans that look anything alike is when you are using some "program" like FHA, VA, etc.

  • Tulsa, OK · Member since 2013 · 11 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    @Hattie Dizmond Thanks for all your insight! I think I'm getting it now. Just to be sure, could you run me through a hypothetical situation, maybe from your experience?

  • Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Brett Vandervort 

    Why are you trying to put down a large downpayment? We bought our first house with 0% down and than we fixed up. Our second personal was using the rest of our VA loan. Our last personal was with 5% conventional. We have done very well building a portfolio from of personal and pure investments as buy an hold investors. I talk a lot about our strategy, being a landlord, and financing ideas on my website/blog.

    We have know many people who leverage their house through a 0% loan and than rent out their rooms living with no expenses. They than save the money they saved through having roommates to buy the next house. 

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    Let's try this...remembering these are estimates and assumptions. Every deal and its associated financing should be evaluated and analyzed independently.

    The mtg payment includes $45 for PMI, and I have you saving $300/mo for future repairs. You are paying $445/mo for your mortgage.

    You live in this unit for 12-monts, after which time you begin looking for your next property. It takes you a few months to find just the right deal. However, your first mtg has now seasoned for 18 months, and you refi the original duplex into a conventional, non-FHA mortgage at 5%, renting out the 2nd side. You also close on an additional duplex for $175,000, again using the 3.5% FHA financing. You can rent each side of the new duplex for $950/mo.

    The original duplex now looks like this...

    And you have this as well...

    So...you're saving a total of $600/mo for future repairs on both properties, and the cash flow from the 1st property is covering the remainder of the mortgage on the 2nd property, so you are living for free and can put all the money you would be spending on your primary residence toward saving for your next property.

  • Tulsa, OK · Member since 2013 · 11 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    Thanks for all your help! You've giving me a lot to think about and opened my eyes to opportunities I wouldn't have noticed otherwise! I've contacted my mortgage guy already, and I'll post updates if I can get some traction. I'll still need to save up for the initial 3.5% down payment though. 

  • Eric FernwoodBusiness Member
    Realtor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2014 · 991 posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Brett Vandervort:

    @Eric Fernwood : Excellent and thorough response! It sounds like the best thing to do right now is, painfully enough, nothing. I'll keep saving so I won't need a loan from my parents once I do find the right deal. I do have a couple of questions though. Why is managing your own properties such a bad idea? Wouldn't it make it cash flow better? I respect your experience and opinion, but I've had other investors tell me to manage my own, while others say have a management company do it.

    Sometimes the hardest thing to do is to do nothing at this time. Based on what I know, doing nothing appears to be the right choice at this time.

    Why should you use a property manager? Most new investors think that the only value a property manager provides is collecting the rent. Absolutely not true. A good property manager contributes value at all stages of the investment process. I created the following graphic listing some of the property managers contribution by phase:

    Market Evaluation

    Many people spend a small fortune on real estate seminars, coaches, books, videos, etc. While the lessons learned through these channels can be very valuable, little of it applies to any specific local because they are all different. So, what might work great in Portland, Maine might be disaster in Houston, Texas. Successful investing requires local knowledge, not general knowledge. The local knowledge you need includes:
    • Type: Condo, high rise, single family, duplex, single story, two story, etc.
    • Configuration: Two bedroom, three car garage, mud room, etc.
    • Location: Usually a very specific area. For example, west of 23rd St and south of the river, etc.
    • Rent Range: If the majority of the population to which you want to rent are willing and able to pay $1,000/Mo to $1,300/Mo. you should only be looking at properties that you can purchase, rehab and profitably rent in the same rent range.
    • Property laws, taxes and regulations: This is a catch-all category of local/state issues that affect landlords. An example is evictions. In Las Vegas an eviction typically takes less than 30 days and costs less than $500. Clients tell me that in California, if a tenant knows what they are doing, an eviction can take up to a year and can cost thousands. Nevada and Texas have no personal income taxes so a 5% return is actually a 5% return. If you buy a property in a state with a high personal income tax rate, you need to factor this into your actual return.

    Where can you get the local knowledge you need quickly and at no cost? Property managers. Every day they work with properties and tenants. Property managers know the type, configuration, location and rent ranges that rent best. They are also experts on the local/state issues that affect landlords like evictions, rent restrictions, taxes, etc. So, if I were considering investing in a market, I would interview 3 to 5 property managers for the position of my (future) property manager. I have a list of property manager interview questions and if you (or anyone else) would like a copy, drop me an email.

    Property Selection

    I have owned 20+ investment properties and for the last 7 years I have almost exclusively dealt with investors. Six (and sometimes 7) days a week I am involved with finding properties that meet the dual criteria of sustained profitability and probable appreciation and overseeing rehabbing properties for my clients. Based on my experience, I feel I stay well informed on the rental market here in Las Vegas. However, I NEVER consider a property unless the property manager approves. She has saved us on multiple occasions by alerting us to properties that rent poorly. Always have your property manager review and approve every property you buy. Remember that they are on the same side as you; the last thing they want is another un-rentable property. Also, get their opinion on rent and time to rent.

    Due Diligence

    During due diligence, two people you want in the property ASAP are the property inspector and the property manager. The property inspector will produce a report of what is defective but does not care about the property cosmetics. If the walls are painted back and ceiling pink, they do not care as long as the paint is not pealing. The property manager will provide a report on what needs to be changed cosmetically in order to make the property market ready. In general, I do most of what the property inspector recommends and all of what the property manager recommends.

    On rare occasions, the property manager will notice things about the property that will make it an undesirable rental property and you may cancel due to their recommendation. This "final" evaluation is very important.

    After close of escrow

    Light rehab & cleaning
    Most property managers I have worked with will handle light rehab: replace carpets, paint, minor plumbing, etc. In my case, I have a trusted team of contractors that can do the rehab faster and at a lower cost than most property managers.

    Marketing
    The only way to find tenants is through marketing. The property manager I work with posts the images and description on the MLS, Craigs List, Postlets, etc. Marketing is not just about posting the property's photos and information on various marketing channels, they must also follow up on each lead and get potential clients into the property and get them to submit completed applications.

    Prospective Tenant Screening
    Proper tenant screening is critical to finding good tenants. Some of the aspects of tenant screen include:
    • Credit - These days may renters have bad credit but the key is understanding why their credit is bad. A recent applicant had a combined credit score in the mid 500’s due to medical collections. Her child got very ill and she had no where near enough money to pay for what was needed and the result was medical collections. If we did not consider the medical collections, her combined credit score was in the low 800’s. Another applicant had a reasonable credit score but upon further examination we discovered that in the past they had two collections for back rent.
    • Criminal History - If the applicant has any criminal history (federal, state, county, sex offender, etc.) you do not want them.
    •Back Child support & Alimony - If it comes down to meeting a court order or paying rent, you lose.
    • References - The current landlord is not relevant because if the tenant is a problem, they will likely give good reviews just to get rid of the tenant. The one that matters is the prior landlord. Essentially, you ask if, “Would you like them back?” If the answer is yes, we may have a winner.

    Collect all the rent on schedule
    The most important task of a property manager is collecting the rent. The process is likely different where you are but below is a simplified description of how it works in Las Vegas:
    1. Rent due on the 1st
    2. On the 3rd a pay or quit notice is pasted on the front door.
    3. A few days later an eviction notice is filed.
    4. About 20 days later the tenant is removed from the property with the assistance of the constable.

    While the above sounds easy, if the tenant does not pay all of them on schedule it takes a lot of time. And, while you may be willing to accept sad stories in lieu of the rent, property managers have heard it all and they want the money. Are you really prepared to do this in the face of a really, really good excuse for not paying the rent?

    Long term tenant/cost management
    There are multiple aspects to this issue including whether the tenant's living habits are damaging the property. If so, then the property manager needs to be proactive on this. How would you know if there is damage? I know of two ways: 1) Whenever there is a need for maintenance, the property manager's handyman enters the property for the repair and reports back to the property manager if they see any issues. 2) Periodic inspections. In the lease agreements I have seen the landlord has the right to enter the property at reasonable hours with a 24-hour notice. Most landlords do an inspection at least once a year.

    Asset preservation
    All properties need preventative maintenance. For example, if there are tree limbs toughing the side of the house or the roof, long term you are going to have (expensive) problems. Periodic HVAC service, guarding against snow buildup, etc. Small problems can become expensive disasters if they are not corrected early.

    Brett, I hope the above explains some of the contributions of a good property manager which I believe to be far beyond collecting the rent.

    Best Wishes,

    FERNWOOD Team, KW VIP Realty520 Reviews
  • Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2014 · 577 posts · 203 votes
    11y

    @Brett Vandervort 

    Yes, "now" is always the best time to invest.  And, I'm convinced, that there are always deals to be had if you look nationally.

    "Yesterday" and "tomorrow" are never good times to invest.

  • Wholesaler · Grand Prairie, TX · Member since 2014 · 202 posts · 66 votes
    11y
    Hattie Dizmond WOW! That was beautiful!!! That's what makes BP such a great tool for all us newbies! Thank you so much for your detailed breakdown / explanation
  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Rene Martinez:

    Hattie Dizmond WOW! That was beautiful!!! That's what makes BP such a great tool for all us newbies! Thank you so much for your detailed breakdown / explanation

     Thanks, Rene!  I love simple.  ;-)

  • Michele FischerPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    I think the decision on whether to self manage or manage yourself is personal and can change over time.  It kind of boils down to have passive you want your passive income stream to be.  Also keep in mind that there are many hybrid options available, where you do part but not all of the process.

    We currently self manage.  Partly because we are in a smaller town with less property management options, and our low income clientele want to rent from independent landlords.  Partly because we have the time and energy to do it and wanted to really learn the business, be involved,  and immerse ourselves in the low income culture.  Partly because we didn't/haven't expanded to the volume of properties where we can't keep up with it.  Some would say we hit inertia because we are bogged down with these details, but we have a lot of reasons why we are currently working in our business instead of on our business.

    All that said, I won't pretend that it isn't exhausting and at times very frustrating to self manage.  It really sucks when there are two units vacant at the same time that both need your full time attention.  Phone calls and showing units always happens at the same time as trying to rehab and clean the same unit.  It is like a huge game of whack-a-mole where we get one issue resolved and the next one pops up.  You start to feel like you might want to shoot yourself if you have to scrub down another beyond filthy fridge.  It's not glamorous, you can't control when your workload is going to hit you, and tenants are often irrational.

    If you decide to self mange it is very important to get very educated.  And have a plan B property manager in mind to hire when you've had your fill.  

  • Real Estate Investor · Cary, NC · Member since 2014 · 4 posts · 1 vote
    11y

    @Eric Fernwood

    What exactly is profit % in your tool? Is it cash flow?

    Thanks for the great little tool.

  • Investor · Newark, DE · Member since 2014 · 245 posts · 198 votes
    11y

    One thing you should consider is that you will not be able to get a mortgage if your down payment money is a loan from your parents (or a credit card, or other borrowed funds). If you are using money from your parents, they have to give you a letter stating that this is a gift and no repayment is required (whether this is the case or not is another question).

    I started just like you, purchased a house with 80-15 piggyback mortgage back when they still existed (80% mortgage and 15% HELOC, no PMI). I rented one of the two bedrooms, and the rent I got covered just about all of my mortgage payment. When I moved to a bigger house, the smaller one was rented for $300 more than my mortgage payment on it. I bought it at the top of the market, and I am probably still underwater on it, but I have been collecting $300 a month in positive cash flow for years and I do not expect to sell anytime soon, so I really don't care if I am underwater on it. I know for sure that I will own it free an clear when the mortgage is paid off, and I also expect to continue to have positive cash flow until then.

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