Estimating rehab in Los Angeles sight unseen.

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Estimating rehab in Los Angeles sight unseen.

Juan J.
Sylmar, CA · Member since 2014 · 6 posts · 2 votes

Whats a good shoot from the hip price per sqft for a general rehab on a typical single family house?

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Meghan O'Connor
Carmel, CA · Member since 2015 · 47 posts · 15 votes
10y

Thanks for the book reference David.  I remember J Scott's book being mentioned in podcast #31 with Lamar Cannon and I made a note of it then.  It sounds like a really great resource.  I'm on the Central Coast, so reno costs are probably pretty dicey/high here as well!...already bought it!   :))

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  • Fay Chen
    Investor · Bothell, WA · Member since 2015 · 214 posts · 104 votes
    10y

    I heard someone said $24 before. I always end up paying more : / Maybe because I'm not full time.

    0Reply
  • Juan J.
    OP
    Sylmar, CA · Member since 2014 · 6 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    thank you @fay chen

    1Reply
  • Austin James
    Investor · Ogden, UT · Member since 2016 · 45 posts · 12 votes
    10y
    My grandfather just did one in that area worked out to be $37. Pretty rough condition though!
    0Reply
  • Juan J.
    OP
    Sylmar, CA · Member since 2014 · 6 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    Thank You @Fay Chen

    0Reply
  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    10y

    In Los Angeles, probably somewhere between $25-100/sf, depending on the scope of the rehab, the contractors you use, your negotiating skill and how you choose to manage the project.

    Unlikely you'll be getting much done in that area for less than $25/sf, and unless it's purely basic cosmetics, it's probably going to be much higher than that.  And, if it's a larger rehab (including mechanicals, exterior work, etc) and you're not skilled at hiring contractors and managing them, you're probably closer to the $100/sf range.

    Of course, if you don't know that already, you really, really, really shouldn't be trying to estimate costs sight-unseen.  I've done hundreds of rehabs (and have written a book on estimating costs) and I will very rarely try to estimate sight-unseen.

    Podcast Guest on Show The Truth About Real Estate Investing in 2024 (What Investors NEED to Know)
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  • Juan Carlos Quiroz Zolezzi
    Lender · Upland, CA · Member since 2009 · 112 posts · 27 votes
    10y

    I honestly don't think there is such a number, the fastest (not only) option is to look at pictures of listing or wholeseller and from there get an estimate but LA is a big market with big submarkets, you wont rehab a $500k house for the same than a $200k house... if you were to point a gun to my head I would say 20k for up to 200k, after that 9% or 8% of value, but that is because you are forcing me... this is not how we flip properties and this is not how the people doing good flipping do it

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  • David Tipton
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 197 posts · 59 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @J Scott:

    In Los Angeles, probably somewhere between $25-100/sf, depending on the scope of the rehab, the contractors you use, your negotiating skill and how you choose to manage the project.

    Unlikely you'll be getting much done in that area for less than $25/sf, and unless it's purely basic cosmetics, it's probably going to be much higher than that.  And, if it's a larger rehab (including mechanicals, exterior work, etc) and you're not skilled at hiring contractors and managing them, you're probably closer to the $100/sf range.

    Of course, if you don't know that already, you really, really, really shouldn't be trying to estimate costs sight-unseen.  I've done hundreds of rehabs (and have written a book on estimating costs) and I will very rarely try to estimate sight-unseen.

     I'm reading J's book on flipping houses now and will get to estimating rehab costs next, really helpful so far. I'd recommend checking it out:

    http://get.biggerpockets.com/flippingbook/

    1Reply
  • Manolo D.
    Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    Vinyl plank/laminate/carpet Flooring, paint, kitchen (granite), 2 bathrooms, dozen can lights, little landscape, little fixes here and there runs you around 40-50/sf, no surprises.
    1Reply
  • Troy Gravett
    Investor · Torrance, CA · Member since 2013 · 144 posts · 73 votes
    10y
    whats the arv? houses in LA range from $200k to $20m. i stick to houses under 1m, and we use $45/sf as our rough estimate after going over so many times before. it gives us enough cushion for overages.
    0Reply
  • Meghan O'Connor
    Carmel, CA · Member since 2015 · 47 posts · 15 votes
    10y

    Thanks for the book reference David.  I remember J Scott's book being mentioned in podcast #31 with Lamar Cannon and I made a note of it then.  It sounds like a really great resource.  I'm on the Central Coast, so reno costs are probably pretty dicey/high here as well!...already bought it!   :))

    2Reply
  • David Tipton
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 197 posts · 59 votes
    10y

    @Meghan O'Connor, thank @J Scott! :) 

    1Reply
  • CK Hwang
    Capistrano Beach, CA · Member since 2013 · 283 posts · 169 votes
    10y

    Personally, i would at least sub divide the rehab into light, medium or heavy rehab job. I really wouldn't do a shoot from the hip estimation for a rehab. A new build on a flat lot perhaps, but not for a rehab. Too many variables. 

    0Reply
  • Meghan O'Connor
    Carmel, CA · Member since 2015 · 47 posts · 15 votes
    10y

    LOL...Thanks to JS too!!  :))

    Oh, and I should have mentioned, that I'm a newbie and you can take it for what it's worth...but I would never estimate costs sight unseen! yikes.  I wouldn't sleep at night!! lol

    Perhaps, more seasoned investors might feel more comfortable doing this, but seriously, even the most experience investor should always expect (and prepare for) the unexpected when it comes to rehabbing a property!!  

    1Reply
  • James Hill
    Contractor · Cedar Park, TX · Member since 2015 · 11 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    Check out this resource from a book called FLIP by Rick Villani.  It is a $/sf rehab cost estimating guide. 

    www.estimatingrepairs.com/matrix

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  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @James Hill:

    Check out this resource from a book called FLIP by Rick Villani.  It is a $/sf rehab cost estimating guide. 

    www.estimatingrepairs.com/matrix

    Given that these numbers don't take into account location (let alone any of the other dozen important factors), I wouldn't rely on them for anything.  Given the OP is in southern CA and doesn't have rehab experience, the real numbers for the OP are likely much, much higher than this...

    Podcast Guest on Show The Truth About Real Estate Investing in 2024 (What Investors NEED to Know)
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  • Andy Cross
    Wholesaler · Culver City, CA · Member since 2015 · 185 posts · 56 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @David Tipton:

    In Los Angeles, probably somewhere between $25-100/sf, depending on the scope of the rehab, the contractors you use, your negotiating skill and how you choose to manage the project.

    Unlikely you'll be getting much done in that area for less than $25/sf, and unless it's purely basic cosmetics, it's probably going to be much higher than that.  And, if it's a larger rehab (including mechanicals, exterior work, etc) and you're not skilled at hiring contractors and managing them, you're probably closer to the $100/sf range.

    Of course, if you don't know that already, you really, really, really shouldn't be trying to estimate costs sight-unseen.  I've done hundreds of rehabs (and have written a book on estimating costs) and I will very rarely try to estimate sight-unseen.

     I'm reading J's book on flipping houses now and will get to estimating rehab costs next, really helpful so far. I'd recommend checking it out:

    http://get.biggerpockets.com/flippingbook/

     Hi David, I'm considering purchasing that book. However, as a newbie, I've a little leary about guidance from seasoned investors that aren't particularly rehabbing/flipping in the market I'm in. Are you finding the information in the book is useful for you, since you are in the LA area (like me)? Thanks!

    0Reply
  • Andy Cross
    Wholesaler · Culver City, CA · Member since 2015 · 185 posts · 56 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @J Scott:
    Originally posted by @James Hill:

    Check out this resource from a book called FLIP by Rick Villani.  It is a $/sf rehab cost estimating guide. 

    www.estimatingrepairs.com/matrix

    Given that these numbers don't take into account location (let alone any of the other dozen important factors), I wouldn't rely on them for anything.  Given the OP is in southern CA and doesn't have rehab experience, the real numbers for the OP are likely much, much higher than this...

     Hey J...sorry, newbie here. What does OP stand for?

    0Reply
  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Andy Cross:
    Originally posted by @David Tipton:

     I'm reading J's book on flipping houses now and will get to estimating rehab costs next, really helpful so far. I'd recommend checking it out:

    http://get.biggerpockets.com/flippingbook/

     Hi David, I'm considering purchasing that book. However, as a newbie, I've a little leary about guidance from seasoned investors that aren't particularly rehabbing/flipping in the market I'm in. Are you finding the information in the book is useful for you, since you are in the LA area (like me)? Thanks!

    I'll let others provide the reviews, but just to clarify the purpose/focus of the book...

    There is NO book (or system or guru) that will be able to tell you what it will cost to rehab your houses.  That's because the cost will depend on:

    - Location

    - Type of house

    - Type of contractors

    - Type of management (GC vs. subs)

    - Level of finish

    - Time of year

    - Your negotiating skills

    - Your scale (how much business you give the contractors)

    - And about 25 other things...

    So, anyone who tells you that they can provide you a list of costs without knowing your specific project is lying to you.

    My Estimating book will NOT tell you how much it will cost to rehab your houses.  What it will do is TEACH YOU how to figure that out yourself in an optimal way.  It will teach you how to look at a property and determine:

    - What needs to be done (Scope of Work)

    - Who should do it (which contractors)

    - How to ask for and get pricing

    In addition to the above, the book also provides ranges of pricing for every major rehab area and task, but again, that's to be used as a guideline and will NOT be able to tell you what you should/will pay.

    Estimating costs is hard.  My book will teach you how to make it much, much easier...but it certainly won't/can't do the work for you.  If it could, I'd be charging a lot more for it...  :-)

    Podcast Guest on Show The Truth About Real Estate Investing in 2024 (What Investors NEED to Know)
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  • Andy Cross
    Wholesaler · Culver City, CA · Member since 2015 · 185 posts · 56 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @J Scott:
    Originally posted by @Andy Cross:
    Originally posted by @David Tipton:

     I'm reading J's book on flipping houses now and will get to estimating rehab costs next, really helpful so far. I'd recommend checking it out:

    http://get.biggerpockets.com/flippingbook/

     Hi David, I'm considering purchasing that book. However, as a newbie, I've a little leary about guidance from seasoned investors that aren't particularly rehabbing/flipping in the market I'm in. Are you finding the information in the book is useful for you, since you are in the LA area (like me)? Thanks!

    I'll let others provide the reviews, but just to clarify the purpose/focus of the book...

    There is NO book (or system or guru) that will be able to tell you what it will cost to rehab your houses.  That's because the cost will depend on:

    - Location

    - Type of house

    - Type of contractors

    - Type of management (GC vs. subs)

    - Level of finish

    - Time of year

    - Your negotiating skills

    - Your scale (how much business you give the contractors)

    - And about 25 other things...

    So, anyone who tells you that they can provide you a list of costs without knowing your specific project is lying to you.

    My Estimating book will NOT tell you how much it will cost to rehab your houses.  What it will do is TEACH YOU how to figure that out yourself in an optimal way.  It will teach you how to look at a property and determine:

    - What needs to be done (Scope of Work)

    - Who should do it (which contractors)

    - How to ask for and get pricing

    In addition to the above, the book also provides ranges of pricing for every major rehab area and task, but again, that's to be used as a guideline and will NOT be able to tell you what you should/will pay.

    Estimating costs is hard.  My book will teach you how to make it much, much easier...but it certainly won't/can't do the work for you.  If it could, I'd be charging a lot more for it...  :-)

     Thanks J. I figured that's what I'd find in the book on estimating.  :-)

    1Reply
  • Kyle J.
    Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    10y

    Honestly, I think trying to use (or even come up with) a price per sf for rehabs is dangerous, especially if you're new to rehabbing.  Since @J Scott's book was mentioned (it's a good book by the way), I'll say that he does talk about the subject in his book, but he's also careful to point out that it can only work IF the rehabber has a lot of experience doing that specific level of renovation on that specific type of house.  He even offers some approximate prices per sf (depending on the level of rehab), but even those are based on his own extensive experiences and vast amount of empirical data.  He's not saying that's what it will cost you for your rehab in your area. 

    There's just too many variables (many of which have already been mentioned) that can/will affect the price. 

    When you're new, it's hard.  No doubt about it.  You just don't know what you don't know.  When I first started, I didn't have a very good idea of what things would end up costing.  (And it's amazing how fast things add up!)  Only through experience and actually doing rehabs did I begin to get a better idea of what something would cost.  But even with what I know now, I still wouldn't even think of telling you what you would pay to do the same rehab since we're in different areas, would likely do different levels of rehab (i.e. flip vs a house intended for a rental), may use different methods to accomplish the rehab (i.e you may use a GC whereas I don't), etc.

    I'd suggest maybe teaming up with someone in your local area who can help you through your first few deals, or actually getting a contractor out there to give you some real world cost estimates.  Even then, to be safe, plan to pay more.  :)

    1Reply
  • Manolo D.
    Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    J Scott Your book has a pretty good pricing range, sometimes it hits the middle range but most of the time it hits higher range, or more. If someone were to tell me we will use your book but on the higher end, I might take the job, well, not really, but 90% chance I would. If someone were to use the lower range in CA setting, they need to prepare themselves breaking even on the deal. lol. Provided of course that it is mid/rental grade and no more than 2 storeys.
    0Reply
  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Manolo D.:

    J Scott Your book has a pretty good pricing range, sometimes it hits the middle range but most of the time it hits higher range, or more. If someone were to tell me we will use your book but on the higher end, I might take the job, well, not really, but 90% chance I would. If someone were to use the lower range in CA setting, they need to prepare themselves breaking even on the deal. lol. Provided of course that it is mid/rental grade and no more than 2 storeys.

    I specifically call out in the book that there will be specific areas like NYC and the big cities in California that will typically be above the ranges I provide.  These places are anomalies in the real estate world, and there are many factors (supply/demand, insurance costs, regulation, etc) that cause them to be disproportionately more expensive than the rest of the country.

    While the methodologies in the book will work for any place in the country (and perhaps much of the world), there will be a few select places where the price ranges are too narrow.  Southern California is one of them...

    Podcast Guest on Show The Truth About Real Estate Investing in 2024 (What Investors NEED to Know)
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  • Manolo D.
    Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    J Scott Indeed, but I was affirming that the price range is good enough for me to work on (perhaps even for other contractors also) of course, paying an unskilled labor 15-20/hr vs 8/hr (plus wc, taxes, etc) in other states makes a huge difference in pricing. The rates need to be enticing enough for the crew not to jump to other companies as CA laws prevent from holding/time contracting any employees or holding against their will. However, even with all circumstances considered, if work is substantial enough, then the pricing still works. The wealth of knowledge extracted from your book for a newbie standpoint is invaluable, it is a first step and at least it will guide them how to step on the right stone. My comment above was to simply confirm that the numbers still work, but on higher end, just in case some readers in SoCal go through this post, it will guide them further on the estimating time.
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