Newbie: Flip or Rent/ BRRRR

Newbie: Flip or Rent/ BRRRR

Investor · Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2017 · 110 posts · 50 votes

Hello fellow BP'ers! Like any other newbie starting out, I too have a lot of basic questions.  I am grateful to this community who likes to kick @$$ and make you get started. Its like having an older sibling that makes you learn things faster ;).   

So, in the quest of finding opportunities and trying to make sense of what niche is better suited for my passive style of investing (which I see myself as), I came across this GC who does everything, even maintain books.  He comes recommended by a very good friend of mine, who I could easily see as my mentor.

This GC guy wants to enter in a partnership (I don't know the detailed terms yet) and want to flip houses and was trying to explain the obvious to me that flipping is less risky than to maintain a long term renter and dealing with their hassles on almost a daily basis, making small profits for a longer duration compared to profit up front (if we really could make that happen!). This kind of makes sense to me and I couldn't come up with any argument to support why rent or even BRRRR would be a better option. Now considering that the terms of partnership are such that I procure capital and he puts in the sweat money, and we split the profits. Do you see any cons with this approach?

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Real Estate Consultant · Whitestown, IN · Member since 2014 · 547 posts · 933 votes
9y

What we have done and is working out for us so far is as follows.

We pulled/raised/borrowed money to do our first rehab. We don't touch the profits at all. Once we built $300k in cash (the amount needed will depend on your market and goals) we kept a rehab as a rental. We continued to rehab properties and every time that we have over $300k in liquid cash, we keep a home for a rental. The point of the matter is as follows.

Rehabbing is faster money, but you cannot rehab forever. Eventually, I want to retire.

Rentals are slower money. I have to park the money that I have and set aside reserves before I consider cash flow. If your rentals yield 9-15%, you need about $1M in rental properties to make a 6-figure income. You have to build (or borrow as in BRRRR) capital to get there and rehabbing is a good opportunity for this.

Diversification is always something to consider as is short-term goals vs long-term goals. Rehabbing homes is not what I consider retirement, even when I am not doing any of the work. Retirement is travelling with friends and family or enjoying your hobbies. I don't care to babysit contractors and realtors until I die.

It may not be a bad idea to partner with someone experienced, but ensure that they are bringing some kind of equity to the table. Newbie investors get taken advantage of all of the time... some of it is a right of passage though. You are paying for someone else's expertise. Make sure that you are getting exactly what you paying for.

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  • Investor · Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2017 · 110 posts · 50 votes
    9y
  • Harrisburg, PA · Member since 2015 · 43 posts · 52 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Christian Bors:
    Originally posted by @Amit G.:

    Thanks @Christian Bors. so what is the expected cash flow like in this area for rentals?

     Loaded question.  But I would say its not too difficult to achieve the 1% rule in this area.  I personally would not buy anything less then 1.3% I try to aim closer to 2%

    There is an interesting slope of the ARV / Rent ratio in our area that declines as the ARV gets higher. I assume that is because it's populated by such a large mid middle-class workforce and therefore all the rental demand is at the mid-point or slightly lower.

    The 1% over/under is at about $100K ARV

    Example (Note - This is Dauphin Co. Cumberland Co add $1K/yr CF)

    $80K ARV = $900/mn Rent = 1.13%

    $100K ARV = $1,000/mn rent = 1.00%

    $120K ARV = $1,150/mn rent = .96%

    $140K ARV = $1,300/mn rent = .93%

    $160K ARV = $1,400/mn rent = .88%

    Important data that straight calculations leave out:

    A) The CapEx of the property. CapEx tends to be close to the same on all properties (a roof is a roof) and therefore a lower percentage of expense for a higher ARV property.

    B) The Appreciation factor of the property. Historical averages in this area show that the mid-point of entry level ("Starter") SFR appreciate as much or more than higher and lower priced SFR. In fact, lower cost SFR actually have much lower appreciation values due to factors that make them lower cost, and less desirable, to begin with.

    That said, we believe that the sweet spot is the price at which people will buy a mid-priced starter home, rents at the market max, and still has positive rental cash flow. Right now, that property is a $140K - $150K, 3bd, 1 1/2ba, SFR in the suburbs.

    The market should allow that property to be purchased for less than $90K in distressed condition, up about $15K in the last year! That should allow the opportunity for "forced", "rehab" and "market" appreciation of about $10K after close, carry and other costs. So, you have a SFR for $140K, all in, that has a ARV of $150K, rents for $1300/mn, has more upside appreciation that any other SFR market segment, and has slightly positive cash flow AND limited CapEx for the first decade of ownership.

  • Investor · Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2017 · 110 posts · 50 votes
    9y

    Thanks @Cooper Bert. Appreciate your in-depth analysis.  It gives me something to go by to set my targets.  The catch as you said would be to try and find something matching the criteria.  

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