Advice on Mentor Programs. How to vet them?

Advice on Mentor Programs. How to vet them?

Annapolis, MD · Member since 2019 · 31 posts · 3 votes

Recently I attended an event (only two of us showed up) in my local area. The format was pretty typical with the presenter showing success stories of people who worked their program. At the end he broke down the cost of their product which is a whopping 14K. He then took us to a different room which we had the opportunity to sign up to get this content for a monthly fee of $200.00. 

This $200 membership basically, from what I can tell, is a mentorship program and actually sounded very appealing to me. I would get to watch and and participate in putting deals together. Tuesdays and Thursdays I would have access to meetings about deals and one on one time with individuals. Access to all the different team members is available. When they feel I'm ready I can start handling my own deals. So, I get it, they're providing value and charging for it. I'm sure the idea is that only a very low percentage of people will be consistent and achieve whats possible, but that will benefit everyone.

The problem is when I pressed for more information I got the run around sales talk. When I asked if I could take the paperwork home to do my due diligence I was told no. I imagine this guy might not have known the answers to the questions I was asking and might get a kick back for signing people up. So I just got his card.

This peaks my interest very much (they have a "sapphire plan" that specifies in commercial. That's what I'm interested in). How can I get more information? What are some textbook pitfalls or red flags to look for?

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Developer · Charlottesville, VA · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y

@Jeremy Willis this sounds like the typical seminar funnel circuit designed to get you in at a low price and only give you enough info to get you to purchase the next level of whatever they tell you you need. Very predatory.

The presenter often has no experience and have never done any deals. They are pros who get paid to sell from the stage and get you in the funnel and they make an override on everything you buy in the future. 

There is a lot of great info out there on how to invest in real estate including commercial. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Developer · Charlottesville, VA · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    @Jeremy Willis this sounds like the typical seminar funnel circuit designed to get you in at a low price and only give you enough info to get you to purchase the next level of whatever they tell you you need. Very predatory.

    The presenter often has no experience and have never done any deals. They are pros who get paid to sell from the stage and get you in the funnel and they make an override on everything you buy in the future. 

    There is a lot of great info out there on how to invest in real estate including commercial. 

  • Annapolis, MD · Member since 2019 · 31 posts · 3 votes
    7y

    @Greg Dickerson thank you. I wanted details for sure to see about non competes and basically what kind of a leash I would be on.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jeremy Willis:

    @Greg Dickerson thank you. I wanted details for sure to see about non competes and basically what kind of a leash I would be on.

     best way to do this is go to work for a commercial developer at ground level and get paid to learn  NOT pay to learn..

    or get your RE license go work for a commercial brokerage and learn how to do deals in the real world not in the make believe world of those that sell how to..

    the presenters as stated are professional speakers , generally at the set up meetings.. they are not investors and they probably showed you a nice picture of the wife and kids and pleasing pictures of why real estate its all based in MLM very well researched on how to convert to sales.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Evergreen, CO · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 738 votes
    7y

    1. What value are they bringing you? 

    2. Can they help you find lenders or investors? 

    3. Is the cost worth it?

    4. How do they coach you? 

    5. Do they have and honor a guarantee?

  • Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 893 votes
    7y

    @Jeremy Willis I would just avoid these altogether. I'm hard pressed to believe their monthly fee or big ticket program offer more information, or better organized information that you can find on BP, hear on MFR specific podcasts, or read in a handful of dave lindahl books.


    If something was truly a great value you they wouldn't be so salesy about it. When I speak with a client to offer a product, I tell them whats right, wrong, good, and bad about it... and push them away if it's not a perfect fit. If you're being persuaded back off.

  • Real Estate Agent · Princeton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Jeremy Willis - most of the salespeople / “coaches” at a recent one I went to either weren’t landlords or had failed, been foreclosed/bankrupted in the past. All were 40’s-50’s. You’ll learn infinitely more by joining your local reia for $100-200, buying weekend classes for $50 and maybe mentor packages from national speakers like Anthony Charra (multifamily) for $1000. They try to get you for $10k or 40k from the get go because they know you won’t give them more money after months of no results.

    Save your 14k and buy a property or partner with someone on a property fix and flip, etc. I borrowed from bank of mom for my first house then refinanced her out within a year after I raised the value of the property from 250-300. Meanwhile I got a better job and several roommates to help pay the bills... or take your money and become a RE agent and use it on marketing.

  • Rental Property Investor · Glen Rock, NJ · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Jeremy Willis

    You can pick up the basics from the books, and even podcasts. Depending on the niche within RE you chose for yourself, I'd take the books route and start networking with local investors.

  • Annapolis, MD · Member since 2019 · 31 posts · 3 votes
    7y

    @Alina Trigub currently reading and loving it. Finding the groups is my next challenge and is a bit tougher than I thought. They’re out there.

  • Rental Property Investor · Glen Rock, NJ · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y
    Jeremy,
    Tell us what you're looking to do and I'll try to make some recommendations.


    Originally posted by @Jeremy Willis:

    @Alina Trigub currently reading and loving it. Finding the groups is my next challenge and is a bit tougher than I thought. They’re out there.

  • Annapolis, MD · Member since 2019 · 31 posts · 3 votes
    7y

    @Alina Trigub my goal is to invest in the multi plex market for cash flow.

  • Rental Property Investor · Glen Rock, NJ · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Jeremy Willis 

    Finding groups should not be an issue. Here's the one that came up when I search for "RE" near Annapolis: https://www.meetup.com/DC-Real-Estate-Investing-Gr...

    1) join meetup site. 

    2) join at least one RE related group and meetup will bombard you with suggestions in your area. 

    3) you should also check out BP/Network/Events section for local REI groups.

    4) If you don't find any that you enjoy attending, start your own REI club.

    Best of luck!

  • Annapolis, MD · Member since 2019 · 31 posts · 3 votes
    7y

    @Alina Trigub thank you. My current quest for groups isn’t going well, but that won’t stop me.

  • Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Jeremy Willis:

    @Greg Dickerson thank you. I wanted details for sure to see about non competes and basically what kind of a leash I would be on.

     best way to do this is go to work for a commercial developer at ground level and get paid to learn  NOT pay to learn..

    or get your RE license go work for a commercial brokerage and learn how to do deals in the real world not in the make believe world of those that sell how to..

    the presenters as stated are professional speakers , generally at the set up meetings.. they are not investors and they probably showed you a nice picture of the wife and kids and pleasing pictures of why real estate its all based in MLM very well researched on how to convert to sales.

     I cant agree with this more. Everyone I know that is extremely successful, started/learned on someone else’s dime. Both my partner and I cut our teeth working for someone else. Also I haven’t met too many wealthy people who bought into some mentor/guru program. Unfortunately, most of these programs prey on people who have limited funds to buy into some mentoring program that just siphons away the little funds you do have.  

    I don’t understand why more people on this forum don’t go work for a developer for 1 Year. You will learn more than you can possibly imagine in that year. 

    Mentors aren’t something you buy IMO. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jeremy Willis:

    @Alina Trigub currently reading and loving it. Finding the groups is my next challenge and is a bit tougher than I thought. They’re out there.

    another little tidbit is if you go on E bay most of the gurus  hand out a physical package of books and CDs  many put them on E bay for 50 bucks..  buy all the different written materials from different gurus there will be a lot of information in those.. just use what you like discard the rest or resell the package on E bay 

  • Annapolis, MD · Member since 2019 · 31 posts · 3 votes
    7y

    @Syed H. I have a good job all things considered, but it’s just not enough...not fulfilling.

    Fear is a big issue. Quitting my current job is terrifying. Do you believe a John/Jane Doe can make a transition? Or do you believe in burning the boats?

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Syed H.:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Jeremy Willis:

    @Greg Dickerson thank you. I wanted details for sure to see about non competes and basically what kind of a leash I would be on.

     best way to do this is go to work for a commercial developer at ground level and get paid to learn  NOT pay to learn..

    or get your RE license go work for a commercial brokerage and learn how to do deals in the real world not in the make believe world of those that sell how to..

    the presenters as stated are professional speakers , generally at the set up meetings.. they are not investors and they probably showed you a nice picture of the wife and kids and pleasing pictures of why real estate its all based in MLM very well researched on how to convert to sales.

     I cant agree with this more. Everyone I know that is extremely successful, started/learned on someone else’s dime. Both my partner and I cut our teeth working for someone else. Also I haven’t met too many wealthy people who bought into some mentor/guru program. Unfortunately, most of these programs prey on people who have limited funds to buy into some mentoring program that just siphons away the little funds you do have.  

    I don’t understand why more people on this forum don’t go work for a developer for 1 Year. You will learn more than you can possibly imagine in that year. 

    Mentors aren’t something you buy IMO. 

    Yup people want easy street ..   I think back to  a few guys I did a deal with back in the 90s.. At the time they were US pacific builders out of Honolulu.. they built high rises.. they were the GC..  I got to know the two owners over the course of the project they funded for me. 

    They started with Charlie Panko  and worked there way up..  then decided to go out on their own.. and landed a contract to build their first high rise in Honolulu with a Japanese investment firm.. it was years in the making..  now they build in SE Asia as well as Honolulu and well you can imagine.. they are used to making 5 to 10 million per deal..  but it was interesting to hear how they worked their way up at Panko and when time was right they launched.. this is how most of the people I meet work their way up..  Getting paid to learn.

    Of course they also had formal training in building and construction management prior to getting hired.. 

    this as it relates to development.. All of us that do this at some level.. at least from what I have seen that did this in the real world and it was a progression..  and there are ways to do that.. Mine was being a real estate broker and brokering deals to developers and learning along the way.. and when I had the capital I could do my own deals.. but it was no way take a 6 month course stir and your going to run out there and convince others to invest with you because your mentor was X..  

  • Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jeremy Willis:

    @Syed H. I have a good job all things considered, but it’s just not enough...not fulfilling.

    Fear is a big issue. Quitting my current job is terrifying. Do you believe a John/Jane Doe can make a transition? Or do you believe in burning the boats?

     Anyone can make the transition. 

    But you need to leave your job and go work for someone in this business. Get paid to work for learn from someone else.

    Never understood people that want to invest in businesses they know nothing about. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Glen Rock, NJ · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y
    Jeremy, 

    Good to hear!  Always continue moving forward! Never stop!

    Originally posted by @Jeremy Willis:

    @Alina Trigub thank you. My current quest for groups isn’t going well, but that won’t stop me.

  • Lee RipmaPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Prairie Village, KS · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Jeremy Willis

    If you haven’t done a deal yet I’m not sure it’s the time to burn boats. Maybe do some deals on the side and see what you like, make plans from there. I’m just now going part time at my job after 2 years of doing RE on the side. I never paid any mentors, I just learned by doing, from people I met along the way, and from getting work as an asset manager. If I do pay for anything it will be a marketing system to get more deals. If I pay money for that it’ll pay for itself with the deals I generate and it’ll save me a lot of time.

  • Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    How to vet mentors: 

    What sort of success & track record do they have? Is it current or past? No sense in learning from someone who knew how to do something that no longer works. 

    My advice is to always look at the fruit. 

    Are they uniquely successful? I won't pay to learn from average. 

    I've advanced my life and career more from masterminds/mentors than anything I've done. 

  • Wesley Chapel, FL · Member since 2019 · 57 posts · 20 votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs

  • Staten Island, NY · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 15 votes
    7y

    @Jeremy Willis Most likely they’re repackaging information you can get for free on the internet, from books or here on BP. These people usually make their money selling “education” or whatever they want to call it and not from real estate.

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    How to vet mentors. This is such a great question. It goes right along with the question should I pay for real estate education or not?  You will find, just like what has been stated in this thread already, that there are 2 main schools of thought on this subject. Opinion 1 - there is no need to pay someone to teach you something that you can find on the internet for free. Opinion 2 - In spite of having information you can look up online for free, mentors can take you to the next level of success and they are worth paying for. I recently listened to an episode of the The Real Estate Guys Radio Show where they dedicated an entire show to mentorship, their value, how to find them, and how to vet them. It is absolutely worth listening to.

    https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/real-estate-guys-radio-show-real-estate-investing-education/id194167775?i=1000441091879

  • Real Estate Consultant · Evergreen, CO · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 738 votes
    7y

    Besides mentors though you can gain a lot of info, education and connections at events like Rod Khleif and Adam Adams hold. I would look into those. You can choose a wide variety of options for attending including the VIP events. Well worth it. You may find people to partner with or even syndication GP teams you can join. 

  • Rental Property Investor · DFW TX · Member since 2018 · 179 posts · 260 votes
    7y

    My perspective is MF syndications.  I know there are lots of other RE avenues, but let me stay in the lane where I have a clue...

    In MF there is the question of being a Sponsor or a Passive Investor. Personally I follow the passive route, but I have stepped into the Lead role when necessary (long stories).  Many do a deal or two as a passive and then make the jump to being a Sponsor.  All MF participants should be sophisticated about how it all works.  

    FACT: There is no require to pay for mentoring.  Clearly, it can be done without a mentor!

    But mentoring gives you, well should give you, a sounding board to avoid mistakes (possibly expensive ones) and, if it is a good mentor, an expressway to getting started.  Time is money, so to speak; starting quickly may be a good idea and worth the price.  

    You need to decide if you can rationalize the extra cost, it is a classic MBA MAKE versus BUY question.  And you have to have enough capital to buy stuff after you pay for the mentor/membership.  This is my COSCO rule: the person with a net worth of $100 would be foolish to pay $50 to get the 5%-10% discount at Cosco. 

    Personally, I don't think it makes sense to quit or change jobs, until you have something of a reputation to fall back on, especially if you have a good income.  In my case, the first sales occurred at year 4, so it was nice to have an income until then.  At that point, it started "raining"!  

    If you do choose the mentor route, you have to show up.  This is the GYM rule: Don't buy the membership and not show up!  

    In my arena to be a Passive Investor, the SEC says (there are two major types of deals) I must [1] be sophisticated (knowledgeable) or accredited (rich) and have a preexisting relationship with the sponsor - OR - [2] be accredited.

    To be a Sponsor, you (or perhaps the team of sponsors) need to have contacts to be able to raise the funds.  If you have a great Mentor, he will have a network of folks that you will have farmed for the needed contacts.  I can't say loudly enough how useful my network has been to me; as a passive, they want my money, I mean they want to meet me. 

    If you feel you need a mentor, consider my mentor, Brad Sumrok.  

    DISCLAIMER: I do NOT work for him, I am just a successful student at the Sumrok Institute of Multifamily (I made that up).

    Regards,

    Charles LeMaire

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