Just starting out... how do you handle spouses fears?
Investor · Murfreesboro, TN · Member since 2011 · 113 posts · 16 votes
Just starting out... how do you handle spouses fears?
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Investor · Asheville, NC · Member since 2012 · 184 posts · 76 votes
14yHi- Wife here!
" It's taken a long time to get my credit straight and debts paid down. " This indicates that you may have not have been so responsible with money in the past. She may feel insecure about it still.
"HELOC, turning over traditional 401k to SDIRA" - putting the house and or retirement at risk: more insecurity
"Completely out of debt... Probably a good 5 years off." This indicates you either have a ton of debt or a small income (i'm guessing small income) more insecurity
"we're getting there but by that time it'll more than likely be too late to build the wealth I would like for us" This indicates either ignorance or impatience/immaturity on your part (don't mean it harshly). Any time is a good time for real estate!!- the real estate investor must just adjust their strategy to market reality. She must feel this too.
The best time to invest is when *you* are ready to invest.
So my advice to you, as a wife who, with my husband, went from debt/ low income to good income, no debt and re investments:
1. Be patient with your wife, and yourself. Realize there will always be opportunity. Lay off the real estate talk for a while.
2. Show Don't Tell: Work like a dog to get out of debt. Extra jobs, insane hours, serious budgeting that you both work on together every month. Maybe that second job is in a real estate field.
3. Sell her the dream: Not the real estate dream, but her dream! What does she want more than anything?- does not necessarily mean a consumer item. This goes with what Brian said, but take time to listen and find her exact needs/desires. Tell her how you want to help her realize her dreams- of security, nice house, travel, good education for the kids etc.
4. So you are now in less or no debt, your income is higher, your wife feels like she has a safety net under her, and is excited about her dreams. You have less urgency and more confidence in your voice. Real estate is a natural next step in fulfilling those dreams! Go for it!
Good Luck!!
60 Replies
- Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes14y
I don't get what the big problem is. A persons spouse doesn't have to be in the same business you are. In fact, most people work different professions. The problem is different personalities. One is a gambler, the other isn't. The poster isn't going to change his wifes character, or she his. Work WITH it, he needs to seperate his business dealings so that his actions don't affect her financial life. Sit down, have a conversation, and come up with a compromise. This isn't rocket science, or Congress. There's a way for both people to get what they want and be happy!
- Flipper/Rehabber · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes14y
What if what is wanted is a someone who shares in the same passions that the other has?
I mentored a man who couldn't tell his wife that he wanted to be a real estate investor for fear she would divorce him. She believed wealth through real estate by buying lower than value was evil. He chose to quit his dreams and have the JOB forever.
All it told me was that he didn't want prosperity bad enough.
- Lexington, KY · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes14y
Not only did my wife support me in getting started in real estate, she helped fund my business! I am not sure I understand your position Karen M., as I think it would be difficult for someone to explain to there spouse that what they are doing is not going to effect the spouse (not many people I know would go for that anyways). While the spouse does not necessarily have to be "on board" or involved, they should feel comfortable and support what the other is doing.
A spouse having fear about the other's business venture is completely natural in my opinion, and can often be changed (even if they are not a gambler). In fact, I would consider myself very conservative, and took many months coming up with a plan, not a gambler in any sense of the word. To me, investing in real estate is more safe then working for a company and "hoping" that management doesn't screw up...at least now I have control.
My recommendation is to work hard to show that you are doing everything possible to be successful. If she doesn't end up supporting you, you have some decisions to make.
- Lexington, KY · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes14y
Originally posted by Michael Quarles:
What if what is wanted is a someone who shares in the same passions that the other has?I mentored a man who couldn't tell his wife that he wanted to be a real estate investor for fear she would divorce him. She believed wealth through real estate by buying lower than value was evil. He chose to quit his dreams and have the JOB forever.
All it told me was that he didn't want prosperity bad enough.
Well I can understand wanting someone to be passionate about the same things you are passionate about. While my wife is not passionate about real estate, we are both very passionate about providing for our future children, traveling, and having a great retirement together someday.
As for the guy you mentioned, that issue goes beyond real estate investing. They clearly have other issues if he is fearing divorce over that.
Plus what was his job? Unless he works for a company that buys high and sells low (wont work for too long) he is doing the same thing, just getting paid less.
- Investor · Reston, VA · Member since 2011 · 683 posts · 191 votes14y
Karen M., wow. We both had to guarantee the debt. We used used joint money to invest. The profits/losses/risk/reward was joint. IF your finances are totally separate from your business, then your slant on this would be fine - provided the spouse is willing to deal with a variable income (perhaps loss). I would have no problem with my spouse "investing". If there was no income after a few years, we would probably have a talk.
- Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes14y
Cheryl C. James Vermillion , I'm not trying to cause a divorce. My position is that it's not necessary for his wife to be involved in the "business" of real estate, if she for whatever reason isn't comfortable with it, or interested. Of course, couples should be in agreement on the direction of their lives, their investments, etc. However; I don't see why if one person has different interests etc., it would be wrong for them to work out some type of arrangement where the husband can follow his passion for real estate, while protecting the assets of the wife. As I mentioned, it's not uncommon for spouses to work in completely different professions, and I don't see how this is different.
Our business is a family owned business, and enjoy it. However; that's not the case for the original poster. Also, it's obvious there were other issues regarding finances, and figuring out a solution that would work for BOTH is, in my opinion, a good solution.
I'm not saying he should squander the families savings, income, etc. I'm saying if they can come to an agreement that x amount goes to him, x amount goes to her, and he wants to invest in real estate, go for it! Maybe she wants to invest in another type of venture.
As for the "gambler" statement, I thought he indicated she thought it was a gamble.
- Lexington, KY · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes14y
Originally posted by Karen M.:
Cheryl C. James Vermillion However; I don't see why if one person has different interests etc., it would be wrong for them to work out some type of arrangement where the husband can follow his passion for real estate, while protecting the assets of the wife. Do your spouses really do everything you do, have exactly the same interests, etc.?c. I'm saying if they can come to an agreement that x amount goes to him, x amount goes to her, and he wants to invest, let him! Maybe she wants to invest in another type of venture.
Karen M., I am guessing the question about my spouse doing everything I do is simply a snarky argument question, because the answer is obvious and I already answered it in a previous post.
Obviously if they can come to an agreement all is well, that is true of any disagreement. I think the problem in this situation is they have been unable to come to an agreement thus far. I truly believe that it would be impossible to convince someone who is already fearful that he can "separate his business dealings so that his actions don't affect her financial life"...as attempting to do so could cause more problems. I figure out why the fear exists and how I can negate those fears.
You are correct, it is not rocket science or Congress, but dealing with someone's fear (especially a spouse) can be equally difficult, especially when it comes tom finances (just ask the many people who have divorced over money).
- Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes14y
James Vermillion, actually it wasn't "snarky" at all. It was simply asking if your spouses do everything you do. Nothing more. The point being, some couples have different interests, hobbies, etc., and each has to do what works for them, and that's what I suggested, finding a compromise that works for them both, and protects the assets of the wife if necessary.
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes14y
You have to understand not everyone is an entrepreneur.
If they work and take a paycheck every week that is their mentality.Work until they can't and HOPE retirement and the government will take care of them in their elder years.Sadly that isn't going to be the case.
They see SECURITY in a JOB even though the reality is people change professions on average every 5 years.Maybe 30 years ago security was viable if you gave your heart and soul to a company but that is almost non-existent now.
If you don't take a calculate risk their is no reward.
So you have to understand that no matter how much you explain something they will never,ever understand.
When you don't have that fire from within to do something great with your life and not just go through the motions then you won't get someone telling you how great it will be.All they will see is RISK,DANGER,RUN.
When the checks come in your wife will be happy and tell the rest of the family off that is telling her to tell you her husband to get a JOB.
Their badgering you soon turns to jealousy when they see you took a risk and are living the dream.Something they might have wanted but were too scared to take action on.
I don't begrudge those types I will just not let them affect me or keep me from my goals.
- Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes14y
Is time an asset? The deal I saw blow up family wise had to do with the guy spending every spare moment working on a duplex I sold him.
When his wife said get rid of it or I will divorce you, he gave it back to my investor (sold on contract) and I ended up buying it. Still have it. Dumb wife, bet he wonders if the wife was a better deal seeing how this area has improved dramatically in appreciation.
- West, MI · Member since 2012 · 674 posts · 182 votes14y
I will use today as a example.
My other half had other commitments today. I'm here putting a counter top on but it seems like the day is dragging, There isn't any other contractors here today. I'm messing around on my phone, when we are both here we feed off each other and get way more done and the day flies buy.
- West, MI · Member since 2012 · 674 posts · 182 votes14y
Originally posted by Jeff S.:
Is time an asset? The deal I saw blow up family wise had to do with the guy spending every spare moment working on a duplex I sold him.When his wife said get rid of it or I will divorce you, he gave it back to my investor (sold on contract) and I ended up buying it. Still have it. Dumb wife, bet he wonders if the wife was a better deal seeing how this area has improved dramatically in appreciation.
If he spent all his time on 1 single Duplex, something is wrong
- Investor · Reston, VA · Member since 2011 · 683 posts · 191 votes14y
Joel Owens hit it on the head. It's the mindset. The risk can be real, don't get me wrong. Some spouses may have very good reason to nix real estate if other ventures have failed. It's not about one spouse telling the other what they can or cannot do for a living.
- Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes14y
Michael, I would start with the premise that her fears are mostly rational, then work to find alternatives that let you invest while also making her comfortable. For instance, I would have a huge problem if my husband wanted to take out a HELOC to invest in something I thought was too risky; however, if he showed me where he could cover the monthly payment even if the venture went bad, showed me that he is fully aware of the risks involved, put a time limit on it, like the money should be paid back in 6 months, etc.., then I might listen with more seriousness. I just think the issue isn't that she doesn't want to be involved in it or scared of real estate but that she is terrified you are jumping in too deep and getting you both into something you may not be able to recover from if problems arise, and it's just easier for her to try to avoid it altogether.
- Hatfield, PA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 629 votes14y
Having done stints in futures investing and other business things, I think the bigger problem is the REI, who is trying to "get their spouse on board."
People quickly forget the last few years of the financial crisis and underwater investors. Many REIs do not really understand what they are getting into. I have seen many "I want to get as many houses as I can" newbie threads here. The lack of REIs about what is involved with owning properties 500 miles away, depending on property managers who may be clueless. A national economy that has so much built up debt in the annual deficit, unfunded social security and other obligations, the Euro zone,
I have had many friends trying to push others into MLM "opportunities." Or new businesses. The fact these rarely work or have high failure is lost on these people.
Assurances are often based on blue sky assumptions. Lets HELOC the house to the hilt, because I am working on a great deal... Etc.
- Investor · Asheville, NC · Member since 2012 · 184 posts · 76 votes14y
The issue with the OP was trust with him/ their finances in general. Not real estate particularly. That's why I recommended getting in better shape first.
The spouse does not have to be involved with the business (mine isn't) but must be ok with the general idea- if you want to have a healthy marriage. That's not everyone's objective.
If your partner does not have the entrepreneurial mindset, it's best to have a buffer/safety net built up for them. Saves on fights in the bad times and chronic low level tension in the good times.
Of course there are extreme cases where the investor is delusional or the spouse is paranoid- but that's a different issue. Maybe if they are little bit of both they could balance each other out and win!
- Investor · Murfreesboro, TN · Member since 2011 · 113 posts · 16 votes14y
Originally posted by Kama Ward:
Hi- Wife here!
" It's taken a long time to get my credit straight and debts paid down. " This indicates that you may have not have been so responsible with money in the past. She may feel insecure about it still."HELOC, turning over traditional 401k to SDIRA" - putting the house and or retirement at risk: more insecurity
"Completely out of debt... Probably a good 5 years off." This indicates you either have a ton of debt or a small income (i'm guessing small income) more insecurity
"we're getting there but by that time it'll more than likely be too late to build the wealth I would like for us" This indicates either ignorance or impatience/immaturity on your part (don't mean it harshly). Any time is a good time for real estate!!- the real estate investor must just adjust their strategy to market reality. She must feel this too.
The best time to invest is when *you* are ready to invest.
So my advice to you, as a wife who, with my husband, went from debt/ low income to good income, no debt and re investments:
1. Be patient with your wife, and yourself. Realize there will always be opportunity. Lay off the real estate talk for a while.
2. Show Don't Tell: Work like a dog to get out of debt. Extra jobs, insane hours, serious budgeting that you both work on together every month. Maybe that second job is in a real estate field.
3. Sell her the dream: Not the real estate dream, but her dream! What does she want more than anything?- does not necessarily mean a consumer item. This goes with what Brian said, but take time to listen and find her exact needs/desires. Tell her how you want to help her realize her dreams- of security, nice house, travel, good education for the kids etc.
4. So you are now in less or no debt, your income is higher, your wife feels like she has a safety net under her, and is excited about her dreams. You have less urgency and more confidence in your voice. Real estate is a natural next step in fulfilling those dreams! Go for it!
Good Luck!!
Wow, gone for a couple days and come back to find a ton of useful info! Thanks everyone!
@Kama Ward. Thank you for your comments. Just a little back ground:
" It's taken a long time to get my credit straight and debts paid down. " This indicates that you may have not have been so responsible with money in the past. She may feel insecure about it still.
The debt incurred was all related to school and the bad decisions I made years ago until I discovered Dave Ramsey. I have since corrected those issues. She and I are all about getting rid of debt and she realizes that I am responsible with our money. I had to bring her around to the get out of debt way of life. That being said:"Completely out of debt... Probably a good 5 years off." This indicates you either have a ton of debt or a small income (i'm guessing small income) more insecurity
She and I recently got married (it'll be 3 years this September 4th. 1st marriage for both of us and no kids) When we got married the only debt I had left was a student loan. The debt we're trying to pay off is almost all of hers. (car, unsecured line of credit that was maxed, 2 credit cards 1 maxed the other at 1/2 max, her student loan, various small unpaid bills)."we're getting there but by that time it'll more than likely be too late to build the wealth I would like for us" This indicates either ignorance or impatience/immaturity on your part (don't mean it harshly). Any time is a good time for real estate!!- the real estate investor must just adjust their strategy to market reality. She must feel this too.
I didn't take this harshly at all and the more I read on here and talk with others the more I realize money can be made in any market.@Karen M. I've thought about this and this is more than likely the route I will take. I have the name of a great real estate lawyer (that my wife actually knows) and will probably set up an LLC to try and protect all family assets from liabilty. By doing this I may be able to get SBA loans or some other way of funding so I can invest. After funding our emergency fund and paying our bills we do maintain separate savings for our own purchases, but we genrally discuss any large ones prior to making them. I just don't have enough there to fund a deal. I may use this though to establish the LLC and business checking account.
Again, thanks to everyone. I really think in her case, its a matter of the unknown and after realizing the get out of debt and stay out of debt mentality, she has swung to the ultra conservative side, is nervous when it comes to REI, and wants to make sure we're never in debt again. I'm going to work my butt off to try and find a way that REI can help us pay off the remaining debt we have.
- Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes14y
Michael Pilarski A journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step. You getting on here to get advice was a good first step. Seeking advice from a real estate attorney to protect your wifes interests, should go a long way in building trust. She then can start learning the business alongside you, without the fear of her financial security being lost. Win/win.
- Investor and Architect · Ramsey, NJ · Member since 2010 · 305 posts · 84 votes14y
Really what this comes down to is education for yourself and your spouse. As you are educating yourself also educate your spouse. Your spouse will become more comfortable as the codes are cracked and you both become more knowledgeable. Make it so that you can stand next to a flip chart and show your spouse exactly how and when that money from your HELOC/IRA/Wherever is going to be invested, perform, and returned to you. Make it so that they can also teach someone else. It isn't always just about how much you know. It is also about how much they know after listening to you.
Of course focus on the positives: wealth, change family tree forever, time with family, etc.
But also look at the negatives of not doing it....
Start asking yourself and ask your spouse to also ask "What makes your job so much more secure". You could be called in one day for no wrong doing and you'll be without that job you relied on. Only you'll be many years older. Better to have means to take care of yourself. Real Estate is a great means so you are right to want to start.
It took me a while to do this as well but my wife got on board completely. It can take time so understand this is very common.
- Investor · Murfreesboro, TN · Member since 2011 · 113 posts · 16 votes14y
@Larry K. and @Karen M. Thanks for boost guys, I really appreciate it. Right now she has no desire to learn anything about real estate, but I keep trying in different ways to teach her. I think eventually she'll come around because she is supportive of my interests and goals. The "What makes your job so much more secure". statement is so true. Here's my story:
My wife and I bought our house prior to getting married. We based what we could afford solely on one income and that being mine. This was in late 2008 when the market appeared to be hitting bottom in our market. I qualified for well over $200,000 but that was NOT what we were comfortable with. I bought the house as a short sale (we weren't in a hurry and could wait the possible 6 months it could take for the bank to accept our offer). The house appraised for 128,000 we put in an offer for 118,500 and it was accepted. We were doing well. Paying off our debts and building up savings then in March of '09 my wife lost her job due to cutbacks at her office (Office Manager/Admin Assistant for a local law firm). We were still ok and paying down debt, being very frugal (cut back on cable, cell phone to talk and text only, no going out to eat), and putting minimal amounts into savings still. Unfortunately my wife was burned out in the law field. She worked in the industry for 15 years and dealt with a lot of rotten stuff. She wanted a change and something she enjoyed, but still could not find a full time position for almost a year. Then Nov. 9th of 2010 there was full staff meeting at the company I worked for and they announced they were making cuts and laying people off starting that day. Just like that, after 9 1/2 years working for the company, I was let go (I was a level II help desk support). Going home that day sucked. Luckily I got a good severance package and between unemployment and side jobs we were able to survive. May of 2011 I lucked into the contractor position I'm in now that is paying almost double my previous job and she (God Bless her) worked a part time at Lowe's nights and weekends and worked a full time job at State Farm as a contractor for 6 months. We're now back on track. My contract is ongoing and will be for some time and she is now only working at Lowe's and has since starting as part time seasonal is now a head cashier with a few pay increases. I think the experience with what we went through is also part of her hesitation in learning and moving forward. Its a security thing I think. Karen M. I think has helped me with a direction I can go to ease my wifes mind some by forming an LLC for myself. Sorry for the long post, but this might give some insight into how to deal with the situation. Thanks again everyone! BP rocks! - Investor · Murfreesboro, TN · Member since 2011 · 113 posts · 16 votes14y
Oh yeah, forgot to mention. My mortgae rate at he time I bought was 5.75%. 3 months prior to losing my job I was trying to refi for 3.25% and the mrotgage dept at US Bank kept dragging their feet and kept wanting update documents because they were taking so long. The mortgage broker called the day after I lost my job and asked if I could resend my pay history (thank God it wasn't all 9 1/2 years worth) and non-chalantly asked if I was still working. I said no I lost my job yesterday. I asked if he thought that would be an issue since I still had all my pay history and the fact I had been late or missed any payments on any of my accounts he said it would be. I told him to shove it in no uncertain terms since I was originally told it would only take3-4 weeks for the refi. Oh, well I keep paying my mortgage and any extra I can through at it and keep building equity in it. Home prices haven't fallen too bad in my neighborhood and are still going for 125,000 to 135,000. Again sorry for the long post.
- Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes14y
Michael, Lots of posts here if you search the forums about LLC and whether it's a good option or not. Read through them before you waste money establishing LLC as I did that back in 2008 as that was the better way previously, but then everything got screwy and no one would lend to a new LLC , then found out couldn't transfer property we bought to the LLC, anyway, without due-on-sale issues and pass-through liability, anyway, so we actually got rid of the LLC and just got higher coverage and an umbrella policy and not happy that we wasted the money on the lawyer who didn't tell us all this until after he established the LLC. Probably works if you are funding the LLC with enough cash to not need any mortgages, but if you need a loan, we found it wasn't worth it.
- Investor · Murfreesboro, TN · Member since 2011 · 113 posts · 16 votes14y
Jason C. welcome to BP. I would suggest several things. One is research on here what type of investing it is you would liek to do (flips, wholesale, Single family rentals, etc.) All the info you need is here with great professional advice. Then I would suggest you join your local Real Estate Investors club and start networking and building your team. Reading and looking are one thing and doing those is great, but if don't feel prepared for the task you're not ready and some professional guidance from the professionals mentioned above (this site and REI club) will go along way. If you have questions about a deal you're looking at, start a thread.
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