Is it a good idea to pay for a mentor since I am just starting?
Houston, TX · Member since 2013 · 17 posts · 0 votes
I have made up my mind to start in realestate investing. I have been reading a lot about it for the past 2 weeks. I know it's hard work but, What drives me to work at it is my kids. The question is should I pay for a mentor? They are out of state and its like $1000 initial fee and like $400 a month. I think it could be a good investment I have a good vibe with these people. I am also going to attend a club.
I think you guys are confusing coaches with mentors.
Mentors are generally people you have a relationship with who teach you free-of-charge, with the intent of helping someone less experienced achieve success. Most mentors spend the time and energy because they have a non-financial vested interest in the success of the person they're mentoring. In fact, most mentors I know do it because they came to their success through being mentored and are simply "paying it forward."
Coaches are paid to help their students. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this model, but pretty much every coach I know is doing it for the money -- it's their job or secondary income source. In other words, if the student stopped paying, the coach would stop teaching.
I'm sure there are some people who straddle the line -- they are mostly mentors, but they charge money or they're mostly coaches, but they do some pro-bono teaching -- but most fall into one camp or the other.
If you're looking for a coach, my suggestion is to learn as much as you can before hiring the coach, as that will give you a solid base to start with and you'll have some idea what you're getting into (and what you're looking for) before spending your money. And you may find that you don't even need to spend money!
If you're looking for a mentor, my suggestion is to start fostering relationships with successful investors. Take them to lunch, ask if you can watch (non-intrusively!) their work, and offer your help to them. Once the relationship grows, you may find that they are happy to take you under their wing and "show you the ropes."
Is it a good idea to pay for a mentor if I am just starting out?
Sorry guys had to correct the subject since my iPhone writes what it thinks I want to say.
Personally I don't think this is a good idea. There is a ton of info here on bp alone and through a local investment club you might be able to find a local mentor that won't charge you. I think your $1000 plus $400 mo could be better spent trying to market for sellers.
Find someone local and offer to help them out somehow.
There's nothing wrong with paying for a mentor if they are good and will help you in your real estate career. Bryan Hancock was my mentor and I paid him for it. It was money well spent and now pales in comparison to the money we make on our deals.
That being said, there are plenty of fly by night folks out there and the out of state thing does make it more difficult but not impossible. Make sure they have a good track record and you have the capability to follow through on their advice. If you can put at least a year long plan in place that should be enough time to get you to the point where you are ready to fly on your own.
Personally I spent about $30,000 on Real Estate education from a variety of sources. That was a hard bullet to swallow and it took me a couple of years and some thin deals to pay it off. In the end, it was well worth it.
Be prepared to for some rough nights where you question why you got into Real Estate, why you 'wasted' your money. It can be a hard few years when you get started before you learn enough to consistently make money on your deals.
Then again, it might be very easy for you and you'll knock it out of the park on your first few deals. I plan for the worst and once I can accept that, then I move forward.
Above all, make a plan, set goals, do check points every week on your progress. Make to do lists every week during those check points. Get the work done. If you track it, it will improve.
Thank you for the advice. I will keep you all updated on my first deal. So far I have just been reading abou realestate investment. My next step in to join a real estate club in my area for networking. Then I plan to invest in a mentor. I thank biggerpockets because I've learned a lot. Do you know if biggerpockets recieve donations? I would want to but when I get deals of course.
anybody know any good mentors in the dallas, tx area?
I think you guys are confusing coaches with mentors.
Mentors are generally people you have a relationship with who teach you free-of-charge, with the intent of helping someone less experienced achieve success. Most mentors spend the time and energy because they have a non-financial vested interest in the success of the person they're mentoring. In fact, most mentors I know do it because they came to their success through being mentored and are simply "paying it forward."
Coaches are paid to help their students. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this model, but pretty much every coach I know is doing it for the money -- it's their job or secondary income source. In other words, if the student stopped paying, the coach would stop teaching.
I'm sure there are some people who straddle the line -- they are mostly mentors, but they charge money or they're mostly coaches, but they do some pro-bono teaching -- but most fall into one camp or the other.
If you're looking for a coach, my suggestion is to learn as much as you can before hiring the coach, as that will give you a solid base to start with and you'll have some idea what you're getting into (and what you're looking for) before spending your money. And you may find that you don't even need to spend money!
If you're looking for a mentor, my suggestion is to start fostering relationships with successful investors. Take them to lunch, ask if you can watch (non-intrusively!) their work, and offer your help to them. Once the relationship grows, you may find that they are happy to take you under their wing and "show you the ropes."
I completely agree with J Scott assessment. A mentor is an individual whose trust and respect you’ve earned with your deeds, and who wants to help you succeed because they thinks you are worthy – that’s it. A coach is a teacher, and teachers need to get paid for their professional expertise.
There is nothing wrong with having a teacher. But there is one caveat: It is not enough to teach the mechanics of the sport. It is just as crucial and may be more that a teacher is also a motivator. Sometimes what we need is a kick in the butt to get out there and take action. Make sure that the person you are paying inspires you in this way – and then sure, pay them.
Exactly what others said. It might be semantics in regards to your question but you're looking to hire a coach. A mentor is someone that 'takes you under your wing' and teaches you because they want to.
I don't have a desire to coach for a fee, but I love to mentor. I end up being an unofficial mentor to several people who have done business with me in some fashion. i.e., I list a building for sale and it's someones first time. I have a personal interest in making sure they succeed with the property I sold them and I continue to follow up with them to see if they want help in future deals.
In regards to learning though... Find a local club (in Houston we have RICH, which I wasn't impressed with when I went but maybe I went to a few cheese meetings). Make friends (real, don't be fake about it) with people that are doing what you want to do. I have a few friends that are in the same market as I am. We've become very close. We have margarita lunches many times a week to go over our business, the problems, new deals, etc. I've learned a tremendous amount that way and others can too.
For me at least, I couldn't do it with an out of area mentor or coach, I wanted good access to the person and the deals, put my eyes on it, but I'm in Houston, which has a lot of inventory, I don't know where you live, if the inventory of coach mentor and deals will support it , or your risk tolerance for something that isn't local to where you live. As to the costs being worth it, I would say for me I checked them out thoroughly by references from others before I moved on spending any money being mentored and coached, and I then paid handsomely to 2 different and very successful individuals, and a local club as well....it was well worth it because I was held accountable for taking action as the deals were coming in to make it happen....I made the people hold me more accountable than I think they even wanted to be....they kept telling me most people won't do what we tell them they must do to be successful in REI....so that is what I did to get going and be successful in the REI....took action along the way....it costed me 5 figures in coaching and mentoring and costed me sleepless nights to change my mindset about what it was going to take to get the job done...some people say it takes 10,000 hours to perfect a new skill...it didn't take me that long and I'm not perfect but I am doing well in it and I really love it as well...and I was 50 yrs old when I started so had a lot of preconcieved ideas and mindset to change....but REI is a great thing...worth it for new friends, $$$$$$$, time and freedom....focus...etc....hope this helps you!
I agree with some of the others that you are actually looking for a coach, but Cody is right, it is semantics. There is no right or wrong answer to this question, but I generally agree with John Blackman, paying a coach can be a great investment, but it can also be a terrible one. The problem with doing so is finding someone who will actually be a great coach...they seem to be somewhat difficult to find.
Also, even if you find someone the coach route is not right for everyone. You need to be able to afford it, the coach needs to understand what you are looking for and be able to provide it, and you need to be willing and able to apply what you are taught. Far too often people pay for education, whether it be guru programs or coaches only to never complete a single real estate transaction.
To tag onto the Coach/Mentor question... Here's another question for you to consider when thinking about spending real money on education -
What's your background? Education? Work experience?
If your background is unrelated to business, business development, management, etc. it may pay for you to go audit some courses at your local community college. Basic accounting, basic economics, and basic corporate finance courses will be very valuable and won't cost you a ton of money to go and sit through. (Heck, throw in marketing and management courses and you've got the functional parts of most business administration degrees.)
It always drives me nuts when I see people spend thousands and thousands on expensive real estate 'courses' or 'mentors' when that money could have been spent a lot more productively learning some basic business principles at a local college.
After that, it would really depend on how you learn. If you can read and self-teach, then scouring this forum, blogs, and books is a cheap (Or FREE) education.
If you need human interaction to learn, then you should find a REIA meeting to go to and start buying a lot of people lunch and picking their brains. Most successful investors learned something from somebody at some point and don't have a problem paying it forward to a eager newbie willing to buy food and libations.
I'm under the impression that someone who has what it takes to succeed in real estate will do so with or without a paid coach. Someone who doesn't have what it takes is going to fail with or without a coach. I think a coach is only a catalyst that is going to speed up whatever result you were going to get anyways. So if you were going to lose money anyways, you'll lose a lot more, a lot faster. But a good coach should be able to help you make more, faster.
Not sure if that helps at all - but it's my 2 cents.
Take another look at J Scott's last paragraph. He mentions being "non-intrusive" when you're asking to stop by some of their projects.
I would add that you should try your hardest to not appear NEEDY. Make sure that when you're speaking with these individuals you're thinking of how you can help THEM. We can all empathize that you need money and resources just like everyone else in the beginning, but you want what they have. What can you do/give them that permits them to want to help you in return? For me, I told my mentor I'd work for him for free. Yup, FREE! He later told me that the only reason why he took me seriously was because I told him I'd work for free.
You'll most likely speak with many investors before you find one who is willing to help you out and who you get along with. Take your time, it's simply the law of averages at play here.
Ask every pretty girl you see for a kiss and eventually one will say yes. Let's just hope for your sake and theirs that they aren't making a mistake because once you're in, it's now time to prove yourself :)
Best wishes
Also realize that a good, experienced investor (Or you could just say "Businessperson") will see this for what it is - a person with nothing to offer more than his time and energy.
If the person in question had skill, or knowledge, they sure as hell wouldn't give it away for free unless they were crazy, stupid, or rich and bored.
Realize that you have very little, or nothing, of value to a practiced investor with an established business. Your time, your energy, and your willingness to work for free. And you better be a harder worker than an assistant willing to work for $12-15/hr, 40+ hours a week.
The only other way you can really "help" is if you happen to have a lot of money and are willing to lend it cheaper than the local HML...
I have yet to make my first investment but hope to soon. If I were you I would exhaust all free (biggerpockets) and low cost (books, local REI clubs) first before paying for a coach. Get out there and talk to people in your market and you may realize paying for advice is not necessary.
I agree with most of the post on here. If you do decide to go with a mentor/coach then I would choose one that knows the local market. There are many mentors that have marketed themselves well and cover the entire nation, but the truth is, although they may have a lot of experience, they may not be an expert in your area.
With that said, there are many investment clubs in Houston and online resources that can provide you with a lot of helpful information. BP for example. Post any questions you have and people are willing to give their two cents for free. The most important thing is to always do your own research and due diligence.
I tend to be wary of anyone offering mentoring services for a fee, although it's good to hear at least a few posters have had postive experiences with this.
My main reason for skepticism is that if an investor has become profitable in real estate, why would he or she spend time not investing to make money coaching other investors. If they are coaching for the money, I would think spending time investing would be a much more profitable use of time for them... if they really are indeed successful in real estate.
One extreme example (which may or may not be relevent) is of a professional athlete that charges for lessons in their off season. I can't think of any professional athlete that would do this (unless it was for charitable reasons). Now an athlete may do this when he is retired, but that is only because they can no longer make any money competing in the sport.
This comparison may not be precisely apples to apples, but I think it gets to my point. I'd be interested in hearing more perspectives on this however, as some people seemed to have had positive experiences with paid mentors.
Kyle B., that's a great question! Here is my answer...
Over the years, I've always felt very comfortable teaching others. Prior to getting into real estate, I worked as a sales and marketing rep for a company, and industry, with extremely high turnover. And, even though I wasn't the top billing sales rep on the staff, my manager always tapped me to train our new hires. He knew I knew what I was doing, but more importantly, knew I had the unique ability to teach the information in a way that it could understood. And, that I enjoyed it.
Fast forward many years and I now know that teaching, coaching and mentoring is my passion and purpose in life; it's flat out what I was put on this earth to do! So, even though I was a successful real estate wholesaler, when the opportunity arose to teach my expertise to others, I jumped at it.
Yes, I made more money when actively flipping houses was my only business. But, to say that I get much, much more joy and satisfaction out of coaching and mentoring would be an extreme understatement. I flat out get as much, if not more, joy and happiness seeing one of my students flip houses, than if it were me. And, to see a student go from a 9-5 day job... to full time investor, with more money and freedom than they ever thought possible... is too good to even put into words.
Some become coaches for the money. Some, however, do it for the love of coaching. I like real estate. I don't love it. I love teaching, coaching and mentoring, and helping individuals achieve their dreams and desires.
Again, it's is my life's purpose. Hope this helps.
p.s.
I didn't read all of the replies on this thread. Hope I wasn't too off topic...
Andrew Massaro, I appreciate your well thought out response. I think you provided good answers to some of the problems I outlined.
I think it really comes down to a newbie investor being able to decipher between someone like yourself and a "mentor" who is going to charge the most they can out of a student because it's easier to make money that way. As I'm sure people would agree, there are a lot of mentors that fit the latter description. It just blows my mind when you here anecdotes of people paying thousands of dollars upfront to learn all the "secrets" of a guru.
Kyle B., it can be a tough decision. I'm a firm believer in the power of mentoring. That's another reason I got into the coaching business. I had a coach when I first started out. And, I can tell you that he saved me thousands of dollars that I would've surely wasted in failed marketing ventures and other ideas.
Coaching is an investment, not a cost. But, in addition, I'm also a firm believer in that we create our reality. So, whatever your life is, is of your own creation. There are no excuses and there is no blaming of others. The coaching you receive is no exception.
With that being said, here is my checklist for coaches/mentors. I also have mentors, just not in real estate...
1. You always want to pay for coaching. From my experience, free coaching results in two things: one, you end up being low priority with your coach, and two, when you have nothing invested, it's that much easier to quit.
When, you pay your coach, you purchase complete access to him. So you'll never feel like you're sending too many emails, calling too much or bothering him. And, when times get tough, you'll get tough. You have time, effort and MONEY invested, so you're not about to just quit.
2. A coach should be able to provide you with the contact information of current and former students for you to contact and speak with about the program.
3. The coaching terms should be clearly defined; days and times he is available, in what ways you will be coached (email, phone, in-person), and your overall access to him. In addition, he should clearly define what you can expect to learn and receive in the program, including any and all contracts, resources and information.
4. If the coach also has a very active investing business of his own, he will be dividing his time between it and you. And, when push comes to shove, he will choose his business over yours every time, pushing you to the back-burner.
It is not necessary for your coach to be local. If that's important to you, great. Go with it. But, it certainly isn't necessary for you to succeed.
With all of that being said, as coaches we need to elicit business. And, to do that, we need to market ourselves and our services. The difference is in the delivery. Some coaches deliver... others fall short.
Do your research. Don't over-think it. And then go with your gut.
I would try to get free help before looking to pay. This may require that you get to know multiple people rathter than one person to use as a crutch. You will find that people love to talk about themselves and explain things they know about to anyone willing to listen. I have never had a problem finding someone who could answer my questions for anything RE related. Chances are, when you are starting out, the stuff you do will be pretty basic and won't require as much "strategy" as you think.
Brandon Turner great point....i think it really boils down to you....
when i first started out, which is not that long ago, i went to the local REIA, and LITERALLY shook as many hands as i possibly could...
later that night it actually worked out perfect for me. i met one of teh biggest landlords there that night....at first it started of really slow, but i would call reguarly just sto start a conversation, just to keep me in front of his mind.
Long story short, he had some local projects going on, about 300 units worth, he threw me in the fire, and i LEARNED EVERYTHING i possibly could. I would get the guys coffee, i would the trucks they used to go and pick up the investors from teh airport, I would work from morning until night with the contractors on these buildings....
Fast forwardd two years, found a 3 uit REO, it fit his criteria....it was a 50/50 split with one contigency ***i was reponsible for doing all the work, renting, selling*** he would just provide material....Got that doen, now we have a cash flowing assest under our belt, and have TWO more properties under contract, AND i literally JUST helped him raise over 300k on a deal from my best friends DAD....
Alot of hurdles, but it DAM sure works, if you work it!!
GM
I don't think there is much difference between a mentor and a coach as both can paid or volunteer. Many national and local gurus offering paid mentoring who do it "pay it forward" but it also a huge business that mainly markets to new investors looking for some secret shortcut. As with investing, the more money you have, you're able to jump in at a higher level than others with limited resources. Scope out any mentoring or coaching program really well. Have they actually made people successful? Do they have any information on the overall success rate of their students? I've been told that it is less than 20% of all students who pay for mentoring actually become successful.
Some mentors I spoke with blamed it on the students for not being 'motivated enough' and they wanted the mentors to do all the work. That can happen but people selling $10k or more mentoring programs should have a success blueprint in hand and then tailor it to the student. They should have ways to track success and keep the student on track. I've paid for mentoring and have had both good and bad results. One mentoring program was a weekly phone call with an out of state guru who gave me sage advice like "Google hard money lenders in Houston." Another was a local investors who had create contacts, content and such but tended to group all their students into one weekly meeting and it got repetitive after a few months. At that point I needed individual help on specific advanced topics.
So, bottom line, you need to outline exactly what you need to learn and hope to get from a mentor. Do you want weekly sessions? is there a specific niche you're interested in? what do you already know? what are your short and long term goals? Put all that on paper, then decide what education you need to get there.
One final thing, my mentor offered a great package deal with tons of stuff and frankly I wasn't ready to take advantage of it in the time period of the initial package (6 months). But then when I was ready, it was too late! You need a very specific learning plan and your mentor should want to work with you on that, not just put you into their cookie cutter program and take your money.
good luck!