The Underdog's Story - I BEGAN investing in '08

The Underdog's Story - I BEGAN investing in '08

Investor · Selden, NY · Member since 2013 · 48 posts · 10 votes

Hello all,

This will be my first post to these forums. I'll try to make it as brief, concise, and full of information as possible.

I was in the military from 06-10. I spent three of those years deployed and then deployed again as a contractor when I got out. I found myself in a position of cash. I began trying to find out how my money would work for me, became familiar with David Bach, then Kiosaki, Dolf DeRoos, etc. I fell in love with the idea of Real Estate.

I was 19 when I bought my first home. A 2 Bed 1 Bath condo in Hawaii. 286k. 6% VA Loan. I sent my final closing docs by way of handing it to the crew chief on my first flight to Afghanistan. Dec 28, 2008. Payments to include my RIDICULOUS HOA fees were around 2k/month. Rented just below MoPayments.

Got back from Afghan with a bunch of cash burning a hole in my pocket. Bought my second home. 455k REO. FHA 5.5%. MoPayments were about 3100. 6 Bed 3 bath SF. Shortly following closing I spent every penny I had on a reno while simultaneously making some other very poor business moves. Got out of the military so lost my source of income. Had 70k of materials sitting in my garage with no knowledge of renovation and no money to pay someone to do it. Got my hands dirty learned to do all of it, finished the reno, got the place rented for about 4k/month after carrying the note myself for nearly 9 months. Got behind on both of my mortgages. It was totally rented and I was living in a little shack I built in the garage around October 2010.

Got a job using skills from the military back on the mainland for 90k/year. Took it. Got back. Turns out I'm in foreclosure on both homes and that the bank "won't accept partial payments at this moment in time. full amount due only." What an ignorant boy I was.

Gave them the middle finger and decided to go back to Afghan as a contractor and show them who's wrong. Make 170/year rate over 8 months, caught my loans up entirely and was out of foreclosure. 2 months after I passed my 12 month threshhold for late mortgage payments began the streamline refinance process through Wells Fargo. Closed a month ago.

Current Situation:
Mortgage A Terms (Condo): 286k, 3.5%, 1300PITI, 450 HOA, Rented @ 1750, Comps showing 290kish.
Mortgage B Terms (SF Home):455k, 3.5%, 2025PI, FHA PMI@440, +misc for total of 2750/month PITI. Rented @4050, Comps showing 600kish.
Rent Totals: 5800
PITI Totals: (4050)
HOA Totals: (450)
Managment Fees: (580)
Misc: (150)
Net: 570

Other Considerations Following
Installment Loan: 2300 Balance @ 130/month (16%ish)
Installment Loan: 5400 Balance @ 250/month (16%ish)
Student loans (taken to consolidate and drop interest from revolving debt): 9.5k @ 0/month (6%)
Revolving Credit: 6.2k/19.7k @16.9%
Credit Score: Median Score @700.
Income: Gross @8950. Verifiable @0. After a couple more months actual will be @7750. Unemployment ends. Net will be @2520.
Liquid Funds: 7069

Now finally my questions:
1.) I understand I can get my home officially appraised and my PMI dropped from Mortgage B (FHA @455k). Has anyone done this? Are there any golden rules tricks I should know about? For me this would decrease Insurance Expenses @440/month.

2.) I've been reading about pooling my cash funds into a CD and borrowing against it @2%. This would be an excellent option for me to consolidate my Installment debt which is @16.9%. Can anyone shed the likely hood of that happening in today's Banking Environment?

3.) Does anyone see anything creative I can do to free up cash, decrease expenses (outside of raising rent or managing the property on my own. This is not an option as I'm living in Maryland and my properties are in Hawaii. I've maintained 100% occupancy with my current rental manager for the last 2 years as well. Switching agencies for a discounted management rate is not an option.), or aquire more money based strictly on my assets?

I'm excited to see what this board has to offer!

Thank you all in advance for your time and I look forward to talking to some of you.

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J ScottPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
13y

Strictly from a cash flow perspective, these are not very good long-term holds. On the bright side, you have some equity on the second property and some equity overall. If you're looking for long-term cash flow, you might consider selling both of them and finding some better cash flowing properties.

Of course, if you're speculating and looking for appreciation, those may be great properties...

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  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y

    Welcome to BP!

    And, thanks for serving!

    But did you lose a dog in the process, almsot sounds like a country song, LOL.

    Banking? Have no idea what CDs are paying in your area, very little I'm sure, but it's guaranteed and you can tap into it by borrowing against it.

    I'd say, keep on working and doing what you have done, looks like it's working for you, a man, that was a chunk for a 19yr old! Good luck...

  • Real Estate Investor · chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 231 votes
    13y

    you have nothing designated for vacancy, evictions, nonpayment of rent & general househould expenses? that's typically 20% of the rent.

    I'm sorry but I hope I'm wrong about all this. You're really taking a bath on this investment.

    Guess hope appreciation kicks in soon so you can sell it.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    13y

    Strictly from a cash flow perspective, these are not very good long-term holds. On the bright side, you have some equity on the second property and some equity overall. If you're looking for long-term cash flow, you might consider selling both of them and finding some better cash flowing properties.

    Of course, if you're speculating and looking for appreciation, those may be great properties...

  • Investor · Selden, NY · Member since 2013 · 48 posts · 10 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Scott W.:
    you have nothing designated for vacancy, evictions, nonpayment of rent & general househould expenses? that's typically 20% of the rent.

    I'm sorry but I hope I'm wrong about all this. You're really taking a bath on this investment.

    Guess hope appreciation kicks in soon so you can sell it.

    I suppose I should mention that my qualification to perform work at the level I was, I have lost. Administratively. I will not get it back again. I have no verifiable income. I've gone from a six figure income when I began investing to now nothing. While I understand my current holdings are not going to get me extremely far ahead under any immediate circumstance I do know that while I have other people paying my mortgage (4 leases, the sf was reno'ed to a triplex if I didn't mention that prior to now) and will have some extra cash flow while someone else pays my note. My equity position as @j Scott observed isn't terrible by any means. This is my nest egg for now. I'm working with why I have. I'm not upside down on either. I figure that I'm better off holdin if I don't see the opportunity to aquire more in the future.

  • Investor · Selden, NY · Member since 2013 · 48 posts · 10 votes
    13y

    Also to clarify I had a six figure at the end when I was cleaning everything up. Our military doesn't earn anything near 6 figures when were 18 an 19 years old. Also I apologize for typos I'm on my phone currently.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Abram Ylitalo:
    While I understand my current holdings are not going to get me extremely far ahead under any immediate circumstance I do know that while I have other people paying my mortgage (4 leases, the sf was reno'ed to a triplex if I didn't mention that prior to now) and will have some extra cash flow while someone else pays my note.

    Unfortunately, I think it may be worse than you think. You think you're getting ahead slowing with these rentals, but in fact, you may be falling behind -- losing money each month over the long-term.

    While you may not lose money this month or next month, over the next 1, 2, 5, or 10 years, there's a good chance you'll find yourself spending more than you're earning. It may not seem like that now, but the day you need to replace a roof, replace the HVAC system, evict a tenant who hasn't paid in a couple months, renovate a unit that a tenant left in poor condition, etc., you'll start to see what I mean.

    I could be wrong, but if I were you and if I didn't have cash reserves to cover some major expenses or a couple months without rental income, I'd probably sell the properties.

  • Investor · Selden, NY · Member since 2013 · 48 posts · 10 votes
    13y

    Scott W., now I'm on my desktop I'd like to address a couple of the things you said. Also to both you and J Scott, I thank you for your time.

    It sounds like I'm being defensive here. In 100% honesty, I suppose I am. I did come here to get a second unbiased opinion on my current holdings. As I continue, I'd like to make sure that it's understood I'm not arguing, just making sure my situation is actually understood.

    To address specifically the 20% that you mentioned, I'm not sure if you actually read to the end of my post but one of the questions I asked was about whether or not anyone had experience with dropping PMI from an FHA loan. If there were any tips or tricks I should know about. Given that I am able to do this, over all, I will be 20-25% Above my expenses. This is my first year in school for Business classes and haven't been actively investing for some time now so perhaps I'm using the wrong terms. But to quote what I've said previously and try to ensure the full picture is understood...
    Gross income from rentals is 5800.
    Total expenses towards rental is 5230.
    Given that I drop PMI total expenses will be 4790.

    That will be a net of roughly 1k/month. About 21% of my payments. Taking into consideration a possibility of 75% occupancy with 4 units, even losing my largest unit, I will only be at a loss for roughly 5%/month.

    So now after defending my position, I will reask a two of the questions I asked in my original post.

    I'm trying to limit my exposure as much as possible and make the best of my current situation. Pretending that selling the homes was out of the question, is there anything else you guys may consider given my current situation?

    For future reference, was my first post too long? is it likely that I lost people somewhere in there?

  • Real Estate Investor · chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 231 votes
    13y

    Read up on the 50% rule on here. You definitely should consider selling these if you're currently out of a job and have 18% credit card debt.

    Take the $ and pay for your tuition.

  • Investor · Selden, NY · Member since 2013 · 48 posts · 10 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Scott W.:
    Read up on the 50% rule on here. You definitely should consider selling these if you're currently out of a job and have 18% credit card debt.

    Take the $ and pay for your tuition.

    I will definitely read more on the 50% rule.

    Just FYI, having served, my tuition for school is paid for and I receive a living stipend while attending school.

    After having asked my questions a couple times, now, I suppose I'm asking in the wrong place, being a complete noob and not understanding the dynamics of this forums, or they're being read but not particularly considered important.

    Thanks again for your time.

  • Real Estate Investor · chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 231 votes
    13y

    20% of your rent goes towards expenses and vacancies.. when you add in all of your above mentioned expenses, as a rental, you're at or
    near a loss.

    trust me, I thought I was making $ when I started too. Read up on tthe50% rule$

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