Tell Me Why My Discount Brokerage Idea Is Bad: Calling All Agents

Tell Me Why My Discount Brokerage Idea Is Bad: Calling All Agents

Member since 2024 · 42 posts · 13 votes

I’d like to start a new kind of real estate brokerage. It would dually represent buyers and sellers and charge a total commission of no more than 0.6%. Instead of depending on buyer agents to drive prospects from house to house, prospects would tour houses themselves, and unlicensed “door-openers” would admit them. The listing agreement would include within the commission property photos, a set number of “door-opener” tours, some hours of phone/Zoom consultation with a licensed agent to set a listing price and discuss offers, counter-offers, and closing mechanics. Ideally AI could improve the property analytics that shape listing prices, a competitive advantage over other brokers. While this brokerage would start in Ann Arbor, I would want it to expand to all of Southeast Michigan, then statewide, and ultimately nationwide.

Initial target users would be investors/flippers, in other words, more frequent flyers than typical homebuyers. Yes, this brokerage would eliminate buyer-broker commissions, which are under threat, anyway. Agents would be paid hourly, not by commissions: the brokerage and not the licensed agent-advisors would drive all listing leads. Agent-advisors would merely provide advice, coordinate property photos, and review offers with their principals. 

Agents, tell me why this is a bad idea. Be as blunt as you can.

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Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
1y

This sounds like a great idea if you hate making money and love being sued. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Real Estate Agent · Kansas City · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y

    First red flag is "unlicensed" door openers, not allowed. If someone is giving access they need to be licensed. If the seller is allowing people access and opening the door, that is different. You could give people the lockbox code but that is a terrible idea. The other red flag is you are letting anyone in the house. That is a huge waste of everyone's time, you don't know who they are and if they are a legit. A buyers agent typically will whittle down the tire kickers and non buyers before touring someone's home. On the other part I don't see how you can be profitable. You are going to get owners to sign up but I doubt the homes will sell. They will get frustrated and leave. Discount brokerages are notorious for having longer DOM and poor listing quality. I don't think you would provide any value, owner might as well do FSBO

  • Member since 2024 · 42 posts · 13 votes
    1y

    Fair objections. Regarding licensure, there are a ton of licensed but formally- or informally-inactive agents. I doubt it would be too hard to recruit some to open doors and hand out list sheets for per-tour pay (think of Uber drivers, but with real estate sales agent licenses). 

    Regarding tire kicking, yes, that’s a tougher issue. Maybe prospects would pre-qualify in some basic way before touring (e.g., they’d have to upload pre-approval letters and ID to an app).

  • Member since 2024 · 42 posts · 13 votes
    1y

    One other idea: scrap the idea of door-openers altogether. Take AirBnB as an example: no one previously thought that a mass market existed for homeowners to let strangers in their homes, or for strangers to rent their space hotel-style. If prospects upload ID, pass a quick background check, and maybe upload a pre-approval letter, I think that answers both the security and tire-kicker concerns. 

    Would sellers be comfortable? Initially, maybe not many would be, but for 0.6% commission, maybe a few flippers would take the risk? I doubt that owner-occupiers would be the early users. 

    I'm a licensed broker in Ohio, and I've been a multifamily investor and SFR flipper for a decade. Multifamily (5+ units) is a different animal than SFR, but there agents (or brokers, as they uniformly call themselves) clearly add value, in my opinion. In SFR, I've never quite seen the value of a buyer's agent, except to open doors before I got my license. As for listing agents, they have two primary jobs: to advise on listing price and to help sellers review and counter buyer offers.


    There are other soft roles that listing agents perform, but those could be done a la carte on an hourly basis beyond the five or 10 hours included in the 0.6% rate.

  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    1y

    So, you'd charge the seller 0.6% and the buyers would be responsible for their agent's commission?

  • Member since 2024 · 42 posts · 13 votes
    1y

    Exactly. Generally speaking, I expect that our agents would function as dual agents.

  • Sam McCormackBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Cincinnati, OH/NKY · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 833 votes
    1y
    Quote from @James Kerson:

    I’d like to start a new kind of real estate brokerage. It would dually represent buyers and sellers and charge a total commission of no more than 0.6%. Instead of depending on buyer agents to drive prospects from house to house, prospects would tour houses themselves, and unlicensed “door-openers” would admit them. The listing agreement would include within the commission property photos, a set number of “door-opener” tours, some hours of phone/Zoom consultation with a licensed agent to set a listing price and discuss offers, counter-offers, and closing mechanics. Ideally AI could improve the property analytics that shape listing prices, a competitive advantage over other brokers. While this brokerage would start in Ann Arbor, I would want it to expand to all of Southeast Michigan, then statewide, and ultimately nationwide.

    Initial target users would be investors/flippers, in other words, more frequent flyers than typical homebuyers. Yes, this brokerage would eliminate buyer-broker commissions, which are under threat, anyway. Agents would be paid hourly, not by commissions: the brokerage and not the licensed agent-advisors would drive all listing leads. Agent-advisors would merely provide advice, coordinate property photos, and review offers with their principals. 

    Agents, tell me why this is a bad idea. Be as blunt as you can.


     .6%. So if you sold a 100k property you would make $600 Gross?

    Sam McCormack Realtor
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  • Member since 2024 · 42 posts · 13 votes
    1y

    Yes. Maybe there would be some minimum, defined as cost-plus, but yes.

  • Sam McCormackBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Cincinnati, OH/NKY · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 833 votes
    1y
    Quote from @James Kerson:

    Yes. Maybe there would be some minimum, defined as cost-plus, but yes.


     Just strictly looking at this from an agent/owner perspective, that commission would need to be a lot higher. Even if they aren't actual agents, there isn't enough money in that. But at that point you are charging an amount that is similar to a real estate brokerage, and then, let the professionals be professionals. But I love the entrepreneurial spirit, and hey that is just my opinion. Keep sculpting that idea

    Sam McCormack Realtor
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  • Member since 2024 · 42 posts · 13 votes
    1y

    The distinction between NewCo and traditional brokerages is that agents would be paid hourly, not by commission. They would not market themselves, just offer advice. Assuming 5-10 hours of client-service work per listing, it’s not a bad wage.

  • Member since 2024 · 42 posts · 13 votes
    1y

    I foresee an army of work-from-home Zoom agent-advisors. They would do no prospecting, lead generation, etc. Pure client service. 

  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @James Kerson:

    I’d like to start a new kind of real estate brokerage. It would dually represent buyers and sellers and charge a total commission of no more than 0.6%. Instead of depending on buyer agents to drive prospects from house to house, prospects would tour houses themselves, and unlicensed “door-openers” would admit them. The listing agreement would include within the commission property photos, a set number of “door-opener” tours, some hours of phone/Zoom consultation with a licensed agent to set a listing price and discuss offers, counter-offers, and closing mechanics. Ideally AI could improve the property analytics that shape listing prices, a competitive advantage over other brokers. While this brokerage would start in Ann Arbor, I would want it to expand to all of Southeast Michigan, then statewide, and ultimately nationwide.

    Initial target users would be investors/flippers, in other words, more frequent flyers than typical homebuyers. Yes, this brokerage would eliminate buyer-broker commissions, which are under threat, anyway. Agents would be paid hourly, not by commissions: the brokerage and not the licensed agent-advisors would drive all listing leads. Agent-advisors would merely provide advice, coordinate property photos, and review offers with their principals. 

    Agents, tell me why this is a bad idea. Be as blunt as you can.


     Dual representation is the easiest way to get sued. I would assume your brokerage would not be able to afford to pay for the E/O it would cost you

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Remington Lyman:
    Quote from @James Kerson:

    I’d like to start a new kind of real estate brokerage. It would dually represent buyers and sellers and charge a total commission of no more than 0.6%. Instead of depending on buyer agents to drive prospects from house to house, prospects would tour houses themselves, and unlicensed “door-openers” would admit them. The listing agreement would include within the commission property photos, a set number of “door-opener” tours, some hours of phone/Zoom consultation with a licensed agent to set a listing price and discuss offers, counter-offers, and closing mechanics. Ideally AI could improve the property analytics that shape listing prices, a competitive advantage over other brokers. While this brokerage would start in Ann Arbor, I would want it to expand to all of Southeast Michigan, then statewide, and ultimately nationwide.

    Initial target users would be investors/flippers, in other words, more frequent flyers than typical homebuyers. Yes, this brokerage would eliminate buyer-broker commissions, which are under threat, anyway. Agents would be paid hourly, not by commissions: the brokerage and not the licensed agent-advisors would drive all listing leads. Agent-advisors would merely provide advice, coordinate property photos, and review offers with their principals. 

    Agents, tell me why this is a bad idea. Be as blunt as you can.


     Dual representation is the easiest way to get sued. I would assume your brokerage would not be able to afford to pay for the E/O it would cost you


    Most E&O policies will pay out 0%, or cancel altogether if 25% of the transactions are dual agency.

  • Member since 2024 · 42 posts · 13 votes
    1y

    Fair point. Buyers could work with listing agents unrepresented, or for a modest fee, they could get buyer agent advice through my brokerage.

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @James Kerson:

    I’d like to start a new kind of real estate brokerage. It would dually represent buyers and sellers and charge a total commission of no more than 0.6%. Instead of depending on buyer agents to drive prospects from house to house, prospects would tour houses themselves, and unlicensed “door-openers” would admit them. The listing agreement would include within the commission property photos, a set number of “door-opener” tours, some hours of phone/Zoom consultation with a licensed agent to set a listing price and discuss offers, counter-offers, and closing mechanics. Ideally AI could improve the property analytics that shape listing prices, a competitive advantage over other brokers. While this brokerage would start in Ann Arbor, I would want it to expand to all of Southeast Michigan, then statewide, and ultimately nationwide.

    Initial target users would be investors/flippers, in other words, more frequent flyers than typical homebuyers. Yes, this brokerage would eliminate buyer-broker commissions, which are under threat, anyway. Agents would be paid hourly, not by commissions: the brokerage and not the licensed agent-advisors would drive all listing leads. Agent-advisors would merely provide advice, coordinate property photos, and review offers with their principals. 

    Agents, tell me why this is a bad idea. Be as blunt as you can.


    = Points Of Significant Liability Exposure =

    - Prospects performing unsupervised showings/entry of properties.

    - unlicensed persons providing services. This is an illegal practice in assorted jurisdictions. 

    - inferring listing agents will "set a listing price" via 100% remote experience. 

    - inferring the brokerage would have direction of what sellers set prices at via internal ai. 

    - Inferring a system of discriminatory practices in who/how/what offers can be presented sellers. 

    "Be as blunt as you can."

    ?Really...... your sure about that???...... Ok then. 

    Were you really stoned when you came up with this hair brained scheme? This whole thing reminds me of the commercial where someone tries to do surgery because they stayed at a LaQuinta Inn & Suite.      Just because you've ridden in a plan does not mean your qualified to fly a plane. 

    This thing has GIANT holes in it but also some out-right illegal practices, like giantly illegal. It's a fast-pass to getting sued into oblivion. Not to mention every agent telling you to go F-yourself because the entire business plan is if you can use agents like toilet paper, pay them as minimally as humanly possible, slave-drive em for volume Volume VOLUME, than you'll make a bunch. 

    It's flawed in every way imaginable. And when your entire business proposition is "were cheaper than anyone else" oh man, holly-cow are you gonna have issues. Where is the value? Where is the service? 

    Not to mention there is others out there with GIANT budgets, massive systems, proprietary software to effect big efficiencies, and they can't operate at that insanely low level, there is a reason for that. 

    I think you maybe hit the bong a bit too long, jotted down an idea, did 0 research, than blasted it out here. Do research, ask if can do each point and how. Your gonna find a LOT of problems with this. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @James Kerson:

    I foresee an army of work-from-home Zoom agent-advisors. They would do no prospecting, lead generation, etc. Pure client service. 


     Aaaand they would be accurate in the advice they give maybe 1:40 times....... 

  • Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    1y

    This sounds like a great idea if you hate making money and love being sued. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @James Kerson:

    One other idea: scrap the idea of door-openers altogether. Take AirBnB as an example: no one previously thought that a mass market existed for homeowners to let strangers in their homes, or for strangers to rent their space hotel-style. If prospects upload ID, pass a quick background check, and maybe upload a pre-approval letter, I think that answers both the security and tire-kicker concerns. 

    Would sellers be comfortable? Initially, maybe not many would be, but for 0.6% commission, maybe a few flippers would take the risk? I doubt that owner-occupiers would be the early users. 

    I'm a licensed broker in Ohio, and I've been a multifamily investor and SFR flipper for a decade. Multifamily (5+ units) is a different animal than SFR, but there agents (or brokers, as they uniformly call themselves) clearly add value, in my opinion. In SFR, I've never quite seen the value of a buyer's agent, except to open doors before I got my license. As for listing agents, they have two primary jobs: to advise on listing price and to help sellers review and counter buyer offers.


    There are other soft roles that listing agents perform, but those could be done a la carte on an hourly basis beyond the five or 10 hours included in the 0.6% rate.


    You're kidding, right? You serious think nobody did a boarding house until AirBnB..... 

    That's like saying nobody got paid to give rides until Uber. Or "ow wow man, thanks to GrubHub I can get food delivered to my door, oh-wow....". 

    All these things have existed for a very VERY long time. Just not as an app, that's it. 

    And the self-showings, Zillow just did the biggest beta test of this, and it failed epically. unless loosing tens of millions is the goal, if that's the goal than they hit it out of the park. 

    I personally don't believe your stated credentials. Your far too ignorant of really basic knowledge in this industry.  

  • Real Estate Agent · Sisters, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y

    It would work probably but there is racket going.  And if you try and push against it you will be crushed.  And why would a guy who can make 300k a year come work in that system.  You will get lousy people who are willing to work for that kind of compensation.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Eric Bilderback:

    It would work probably but there is racket going.  And if you try and push against it you will be crushed.  And why would a guy who can make 300k a year come work in that system.  You will get lousy people who are willing to work for that kind of compensation.


    Eric keep in mind the market he is talking about median home prices are more in the 150 to 200k range and agents dont make the same dollars as successful or even modestly successful West coast agents make..

    But that all said there is absolutely no money in this.

    The other thing that the OP is not taking into consideration is these are not AIRBNBs these are peoples homes with valuable in them.. you woud get all sorts of crooks casing these homes only to come back and steal these people blind.  Its one thing in an air bnb to steal the Kurig machine its another to break into and steal all the jewelry guns and other valuables.
  • Member since 2024 · 42 posts · 13 votes
    1y

    It's understandable that this thread has touched a nerve. I’m proposing a radical reworking of how houses get bought and sold in the United States, and asking agents to comment on what would be major changes in how they work, who would compensate them, how, and how much. 

    The end result I envision will be many fewer commission dollars paid and agents employed, but those remaining agents would be much more regularly employed, on an hourly and not a commission basis, paid to provide advice and nothing else. SFR transactions are generally fairly simple, and condos are not too much more complicated. Depending on the principal, a lesser or greater degree of professional advice is necessary, but most SFR transactions are similar in their mechanics. My brokerage would employ data-driven pricing guidance (hard to see how this would be materially different from MLS comp sheets; perhaps more accurate). It would hire photographers like traditional agents do, and would advise buyers and sellers, up to a predetermined number of hours, after which the advice would cost extra. This would disincentivize tire-kicking and over-pricing, I hope.

    Whether my brokerage would work for sellers alone or for both buyers and sellers is a technical matter, an important one to be sure, but a technical one that can be overcome. Marcus & Millichap, the commercial brokerage, more or less exclusively functions as a listing agent or a dual agent. Are commercial buyers more sophisticated than residential ones? Maybe so, but I doubt that they’re less litigious. 

    Likewise, I’d need to work out how prospects would tour properties safely, legally, and at minimal expense. I don’t have an easy answer, but if Uber made private cars taxis for hire, I’m sure this could be overcome, too. My guess is that there are inactive licensees who could be drafted to a new brokerage whose sole function would be to open doors, especially if those licensees are paid per-tour…like Uber drivers.

  • Karina GaffordBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2024 · 4 posts · 4 votes
    1y

    Some of the legalities have already been addressed, such as unlicensed folks showing properties, E&O, dual agency, etc., but if you're just talking vacant investor owned properties, OpenDoor already has a go and show model that you could functionally follow with getting driver's licenses/ registrations, etc., but you'd need to rely on local contractors or someone to go and check that the house is locked up/ secure on occasion, so definitely some logistical issues there to consider.

    Additional logistical issues - if your agents are centrally working, then you need a logistical solution for: signs, sign riders (coming soon if that's required in your market/ pending), lockboxes, pick-up, and storage. Also, you need a solution for photos. If you want quality real estate photography, you'll need a pricing solution per market to factor into your budget. 

    I didn't see a plan for Transaction Coordination. Will the agents be handling this as well? 

    Who is vetting the buyers and calling the lenders to confirm financial ability?

    And who is verifying information with tax records and the seller, securing disclosure documents, and entering the property into MLS and any showing applications?

    You mentioned an hourly rate for agents, but there are a lot of tasks associated. Even if you got an agent to work from home for $25 an hour coordinating (this would not  be negotiating - this would have to be transaction based with essentially forwarding the contract to the client and not advising because an agent who agrees to work for $25 an hour cannot negotiate their own compensation let alone pricing for a property), if one property took 10 hours (very low amount of time for a property), you would be looking at $250 for the agent. Since transaction coordinators alone typically charge $250-750, depending on location and expertise, this may be a challenging budget to meet.

    Customer service issues are likely. Since this is minimal service, to minimize your hourly payroll time, you could consider a solution like ZenDesk for client question intake, and have a VA respond as appropriate and escalate to a licensed agent, though this will have the knock on effect of requiring more systems or contributing to lower client satisfaction when they can't reach an agent.

    You will have longer DOM, as a couple of folks mentioned, owing to minimal marketing, so if you have demanding/ time consuming clients who want to discuss why their property is not selling, you'll want to budget in payroll time. Ditto for lender/ appraisal/ title delays, and calls with buyer agents. 

    And what about the seller's who have expectations set that they will not have to pay a buyer agent commission when that's entirely negotiable? If your market has a significant number of FHA or VA loans with zero to low down payments where a buyer can't afford to pay their agent out of pocket, your sellers may end up cutting off a significant portion of the home buying market, or once they do come around to considering negotiating on BAC, they may feel deceived, and now you may lose the potential for the recurring client that will ultimately otherwise drive your seller lead acquisition cost down.

    For planning: 
    In a great business, a good rule of thumb is to estimate:

    100% Gross Income
    35% Cost of Sale
    30% Expenses
    35% Profit <-- very few businesses achieve this, but we're looking at an ideal solution

    Assuming a national price average of $300k and 0.6% GCI, you'd be looking at:
    $1,800 Gross Income
    $630 Cost of Sale <-- agents/ transaction coordinators
    $540 Expenses <-- photos/ signs/ lockboxes/ Errors & Omissions insurance/ MLS fees/ liability insurance/ tech fees/ VA admin support/ marketing to get clients for the business (this piece should be roughly 10% of revenue, which would be $54 in this case)
    $630k Profit

    If your business sold 1,000 of these homes a year, you would have:
    $1,800,000 Gross Income
    $630k Cost of Sale <-- agents/ transaction coordinators (you could have 5 agents handling 200 sales each at $100k incomes and TC support at scale)
    $540k Expenses <-- photos/ signs/ lockboxes/ Errors & Omissions insurance/ MLS fees/ liability insurance/ tech fees/ VA admin support/ marketing to get clients for the business (you're going to est $125k in runner fees alone for signs; $25k+ in signs, $54k in ads to attract clients, $200k in photos, $10-20k minimum in E&O, $2k in liability, and what tech/ VA support)
    $630k Profit 

    Scale costs will include hiring a managing broker for compliance to help oversee all of these transactions and implement legal changes and training. That'll eat into a chunk of that profit.

    And if you do enough real estate, one of your agents will do something that will cause you to get sued at some point. You need to sock away savings for that because an attorney is not going to work for $25/ hour.

    Ultimately, you would have one of the highest selling teams in the country with not enough profit. If you found a way to add additional revenue streams, such as title, mortgage, etc., then you may have a reasonable business, but otherwise...why would you do this model? If your only value is lowest cost, someone is going to underbid you by $100, and now you've lost your recurring investor client and his buddies. 


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  • Member since 2024 · 42 posts · 13 votes
    1y

    Karina, thank you for your response. You’ve given me a lot to address.

    1. Let’s address the cost of sales, per deal:

         a. Property photos: approx. $250 

        b. Listing agent consultation/transaction management time, 10 hours included @ $50/hour: $500

         c. Buyer agent consulting/transaction management time, 10 hours included @ $50/hour: $500 

    Add 20% to the $1,250 in costs that I’m not anticipating, or $250 (variable costs like Zoom fees for client consultations, for instance). So COGS would be $1,500 per deal.

    As for overhead, let’s say that you’re optimistic, and that overhead is $1,000/deal - figure lots of marketing, especially in the early years. So we’re up to $2,500/year in costs. While thick profit margins are great, this would be a volume business - so narrowly profitable that it would ward off competition because it would squeeze out all the producer surplus possible, like Vanguard or Ryanair (or, yes, Spirit Airlines).

    At 0.6% GCI, NewCo would require average deal size of $500,000 to break even plus a 20% margin. A tough row to hoe, no doubt. But $500,000 is an average price in my home area, and in much of the country.

  • Karina GaffordBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2024 · 4 posts · 4 votes
    1y

    If the numbers work in your market, go for it. 

    Consider factoring in your CRM, transaction management platform, signs, lockboxes, and runners. 

    In San Antonio, our median price is around $290k, and investors right now tend to buy below the median of the market unless they're buying multi-family, so those would be tight numbers here.

    Homefront United Realty Group with KW City View5239 Reviews
  • Member since 2024 · 42 posts · 13 votes
    1y

    Definitely a lot of ideas to tweak here. I’ve really appreciated our back-and-forth, and you’ve helped sharpen my thinking.

  • Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y

    Dual representation is a self-evident absurdity. You can’t give fiduciary standard of care when you represent both sides, r.e. Agent yammering to the contrary notwithstanding. That why r.e. Lawyers loath the agents. 

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