Is Southern California really that bad?

Is Southern California really that bad?

Investor · Redlands, CA · Member since 2013 · 177 posts · 76 votes

Hi everyone,

I'm a new BP member living in southern California. I haven't quite found my niche yet, but I find myself being really drawn to the buy and hold type of investing.

It seems like buy and hold investing is a bit tougher out here in this area, and that getting a 1% monthly rent to value is not so easy. I'm basing this on what I hear from various podcasts and blogs since I don't have any real experience in the area (other than a purchase I negotiated for my Dad in 2010). Most of what I've seen talked about in Southern California is flipping, rehabs, spec home building, and commercial real estate.

Now I know that someone must own all of these houses people are renting in my area, so how are people finding success? and is it possible for someone like me, who makes a good income but hasn't had time to save large sums of money, to purchase and rent property in an expensive market like this one? I don't mind saving and being patient if I know it will make sense to be a landlord here.

Sure there are cheaper areas around, but still, I would find myself paying upwards of a 150,000 dollars for a small house in a run down, less appealing area. Is out of state investing a legitimate alternative? That seems like it would be a very difficult endeavor.

I'm sure the answer to succeeding in So Cal has something to do with lots of hard work, patience, and experience, as it is with most things. But I would love to hear what some BP members think about succeeding in my area, or perhaps some alternatives to investing locally.

I'm all ears! Thanks guys.

Trevor

4Reply
285 views

Most Popular Reply

Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y

If you are afraid of missing out on the real estate investment opportunity boom, which is what you've described, beginning by purchasing out of state properties is not, in my opinion, a very sound strategy.

There's nothing like discovering what you don't know but should have known, only to complicate a problem or mistake by hundreds of miles of distance between you and the investment. I've met a ton of people in CA still waiting for their Memphis/St.Louis/Detroit/Texas rentals to finally pan out. They won't; it's a sucker bet for newbies.

Learn the business first by studying, observing, attending and participating. During the last property cycle, the gal who cuts my hair would quiz me about real estate investing. When I suggested that she ought to begin by reading up on the subject first, she scoffed "Oh no, I'm too busy for that!"

The best investment that you'll ever make is in yourself. That is, learn everything you can now. Set a budget and invest X dollars in books, audio files, attend real estate investment club events and maybe some home study courses. Even this course of action has its detractors and there are plenty of Dream Merchants willing to take your money and sell you BS.

And be careful of the naked man who offers you his shirt.

See this reply in the discussion

80 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Investor · Redlands, CA · Member since 2013 · 177 posts · 76 votes
    12y

    @Jeff B. It's awesome to hear a success story, hopefully some day I'll get the courage to leave the old job behind and try to work for myself one of these days.

    @Jonathan M. San Bernardino is a big city (at least area-wise) with a lot of different neighborhoods. There are definitely some rough areas, at least in my opinion, but nothing compared to some parts of LA and other bigger metropolitan areas. I'm sure you know that already though! Personally I'd stay away from the north side of downtown (highland ave area) and some areas around the train station. Hopefully you'll be surprised by some of the many better areas. Any area of San Bernardino (except for by the country club and in the foothills) is a huge discount to the rest of southern California. Good Luck!

  • Investor · Kern county Riverside County, CA · Member since 2008 · 494 posts · 261 votes
    12y

    I own a lot of rentals at 2% or better in California. Some are in Riverside county, (Hemet, Wildomar) most in Kern county (Bakersfield surrounding area) I also own rentals out of state, and will never buy out of state ever again. Just my 2 cents.

  • Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 24 posts · 1 vote
    12y

    @Derek W. did you have a bad experience out of state (only if you don't mind sharing)?

    I am new to real estate investing, living in Los Angeles area, and am trying to see all angles of investing out of state.

  • Investor · Kern county Riverside County, CA · Member since 2008 · 494 posts · 261 votes
    12y

    I am a very hands on landlord with my rentals. I find that being a hands on manager and running a tight ship can really control my expenses. Since I don't mind being hands on, I find out of state very frustrating as I can't control my costs and vacancies nearly as well as I can locally. So if you are a yield whore like me, every savings counts. But this doesn't discount so many others who successfully invest out of state. It's just my personal preference.

  • Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    I am a very hands OFF landlord with my rentals. BUT for twenty years i was very hands on, even running my own PM company. I was a Real Estate Broker with an office in OC and an office in Riverside. I also own rentals in the Central Valley (Visalia, Tulare, Fresno). If it can happen to a rental, I have dealt with it. And now I don't want to deal with it, I want to enjoy life.

    For new investors, if possible, buy a rental close to home so you can learn the ropes. There is nothing like hands on experience.

    And for you who are "yield hounds", remember, there is a real VALUE in free time.

  • Investor · Kern county Riverside County, CA · Member since 2008 · 494 posts · 261 votes
    12y

    Please don't mistake being hands on and running a tight ship with an inability to delegate to create plenty of free time. Though I would recommend to a new landlord to learn how to screen your own tenants, do your own evictions, collect rent, etc. before passing off the job to someone else. Or you can create your own management company after you have enough rentals and keep the control without sacrificing your time.

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    Heh Mike M- Long time! I find myself in the same boat as you. Pretty much the same history as you with CA, Broker licenses, and buying property all over. My experiences over 40 years tells me to disagree with many of the posts in this thread, but I'll leave that alone. There are so many different strategies, goals, locations and views on RE that I'm confident ANY of those will work if you do your homework and due diligence first. You have to determine when you have learned enough. I have MANY threads and posts on BP about my thoughts on war zones, investing out of state, cash flow as opposed to other strategies etc.

    In a nutshell, I'm not afraid to invest ANYWHERE but feel more comfortable where the "bread and butter" type sfr still exists. With median incomes dropping and prices rising, I see a potential void in upper prices. In my experiences, the higher priced properties always get hurt first and the most. I'm not talking elite properties, just those in the top 75% of the market values.

    I agree with Mike M. I have great property managers where I own property(TX,FL,UT and AZ-no more Cancun!) and a personal asst that oversees all the reports and managers. I make a trip a year to view them. In AZ now, UT later today, TX from 27-29 and FL Jan. 12th. I need to make an appearance and also write off the trip to warm up. Just my $.02. Rich

    p.s. You can build or find new properties in certain states that provide a great return, imo.

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
    12y

    Many years ago, California was a good market to buy in but not anymore only note buying is a good market in California with less headache.

    Joe Gore

  • Investor · Redlands, CA · Member since 2013 · 177 posts · 76 votes
    12y

    @Account Closed

    If you don't mind me asking, do you invest in notes here in California yourself? I'd love to learn more about it.

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
    12y

    @Trevor Lohman,

    I do buy 1st non performing notes in California.

    Joe Gore

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    12y

    The guy who owns my building lives in Sweden. He has been inside my place once in 20 years....when he bought it. A good PM is his answer. I doubt Trump worries about being a remote landlord. It does take the right PM I am certain.

  • Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    Trevor,

    No. SoCal is gorgeous.

    There's a saying that cash-flow pays the bills; appreciation makes you rich. If you can achieve both at the same time, you're golden. This is the reason why savvy investors are chasing markets that have population and job growth. Does SoCal have those characteristics other than just beautiful weather all year around?

    People vote with their pocket book. SoCal is expensive for a reason. Every recession, I see the wealthy folks add more real estate to their portfolio. Due to Prop.13, I believe real estate will be passed down from generation to generation especially the prime properties. The entry point for these prime properties will always be high. People are willing to accept 3%-4% cap rate in Manhattan, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and other big Metro Cities for a reason.

    The same with mortgage interest deduction (MID). The MID for a home loan of $600k-$1M is very lucrative while it's worthless for a loan of $50k-$150k in fly over states. This is one of the reasons why people are willing to pay $750k to $1M for a home in the big Metro Cities while they could rent the same house for $3K-$4k/month.

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    12y

    btw, the last time I checked, Venice had the most expensive per square foot value in Cali. More than Malibu, Bev Hills and anywhere in OC.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    @Account Closed

    I live and invest in San Francisco. I own 2 small buildings, one converted to condos, the other in process. I live comfortably off the income (av rent over $3200/unit.) I have a ton of equity, and will be making another purchase soon by leveraging part of that equity. I hardly spend any time on prop mgmt, as my tenants are stable and all professionals. It's a cinch.

    Whenever I go to local RE clubs, there is a reason why so many out of state investors looking to raise capital frequently come to pitch their projects to us CA investors; all the money is here.

    My suggestion: figure out a way to buy locally. Try to by 2-4 units where you can owner occupy. You get the best rates, are close to your tenants, and can learn the ins and out of landlording. Buy in a decent, upcoming area. Even consider a larger down payment (if you can) or take a reasonable negative cashflow you can support. You'll learn a lot, and if you choose a good area, will probably reap some nice equity over the next 2-4 years, which you can later tap into to help fund another purchase.

  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 71 posts · 16 votes
    12y

    I went out to San Bernandino yesterday. The experience was interesting to say the least. The neighborhoods were working class level with a couple of the properties in rough areas. The houses were in poor shape but I saw a potential property that shows poorly to buyers, but has a motivated seller, and is located in a working class neighborhood. We're trying to gauge how motivated the seller is but we may be able to make an offer significantly below asking. I have to run all the numbers of course.

    I also saw a second potential, a short sale. The numbers work out if we get it at the right price.

    If I can't get any of these at the price were the numbers make sense (10% cash on cash assuming property management) it's not worth it to me. That's assuming a down payment of 20%.

    The thought of making an offer scares me but it has to be done.

    We'll see what happens.

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
    12y

    Sellers get very motivated when you make an offer with cash in hand right before the holidays.



    Joe Gore

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 922 posts · 336 votes
    12y

    Hey Trevor

    I know exactly what you mean. I was born and raised in Pomona, CA and currently living in Charlotte NC. The more than 1% Rule can be achieved there in Cali, but you have to look in different areas. San bernardino, Some parts of Rialto, Fontana, Riverside and outlying areas are you would be able to achieve more of a realistic return. going towards LA like area forget it. Super expensive in many of those areas. You could try the high desert areas like Victorville or Hesperia. Most of my family moved up to the Desert because it makes more sense. But the drive to work is down the hill is CRAZY!!

  • Investor · Redlands, CA · Member since 2013 · 177 posts · 76 votes
    12y

    @Gerald Harris Wow, I can't believe I didn't consider the Victorville area... I actually know a spec home builder up there, maybe I can pick his brain on the area. Thanks for the feedback!

  • Real Estate Investor · Chino Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 13 posts · 4 votes
    12y

    Hey @Trevor Lohman

    What a great thread you started! I’m glad you asked the question as it created a lot of feedback. I feel just like you, I missed the boat. I live and work in the Inland Empire and as an IT consultant I drive over 30,000 miles a year. My client base is heavily in the IE and I know the area very well. I’ve been scouring the area for 6 months and every time I find a property that will meet the 1% rule and cash flow a little someone comes in with all cash and closes it right away. I can do an all cash deal myself but one of the reasons I chose REI is the ability to leverage my investment. An all cash deal is going to kill my CoC. It can be very frustrating to say the least.

    I have a client that left his company 4 years ago and started buying in the high desert (Victorville, Apple Valley, Hesperia) and now owns over 30 sfr. Now that area is dried up as well. The worst part is I remember him telling me 4 years ago why he was leaving. I didn’t think much of it as I wasn’t concerned about REI at the time. It would have been a perfect opportunity to partner up with him. Again I missed the boat.

    I have a REA that specializes in the high desert, another in IE and yet another in Los Angeles county all on the lookout for my investment criteria. I won’t purchase unless the property cash flows $100 per door after the 50% rule with a 10% or higher CoC. All they have been able to find is around $23/door which doesn’t cut it. I haven’t completely given up on So Cal but I have started looking out of state where the numbers make sense. If you go out of state, make sure you learn about the area. So Cal would be perfect for me as my clients range from plumbers, electricians, accountants, attorneys, contractors, etc which made building my local team extremely easy. Everything I need except for the property that makes sense.

    Jason

  • Investor · Bellingham, WA · Member since 2010 · 308 posts · 230 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Trevor Lohman:

    @Jonathan M. "I have to say if you're going to rent to college kids, a Seventh Day Adventist (no alcohol or caffeine) Medical school is a good place to start."

    @Trevor Lohman Your quote gets my vote for best of the year!
  • Investor · Redlands, CA · Member since 2013 · 177 posts · 76 votes
    12y

    Haha That's Awesome!

    Thanks @Giovanni Isaksen

  • Investor · Bay Area, CA · Member since 2014 · 63 posts · 77 votes
    12y

    @Jason Schaefer just a quick thought if you have the cash, perhaps you can bid more competitively buying with cash then refinance in 4 months.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Orange, CA · Member since 2012 · 68 posts · 63 votes
    12y

    this is not to brag, this is to show what is possible in southern California, your basic approach should be fix and flip the expensive homes and keep whatever you can that make sense as rentals. You make a few bucks flipping but you make millions buying, fixing, and keeping rentals. if you keep the rentals you have write offs, appreciation, depreciation, rental income, and it's taxed different than flipping.

    All deals done in Southern California....over the past 21 months

    Deal #1 got offer accepted at $100K for a duplex, wholesaled it for $107,000 to a cash buyer, netted $3500 +/-

    Deal #2 got offer accepted at $105K for 3/2 SFR, wholesaled it for $112K to same cash buyer, netted $3500 +/-

    Deal#3: paid 85K cash for 2/1 SFR, spent $15K on rehab, sold for $140K

    #4: paid $86K cash for 2/1 SFR, spent 15K on rehab, sold for $156K

    #5 paid $104K used hard money for 2/2 SFR, spent 14K on rehab, sold for $170K (put 20% down, plus rehab, and holding cost, total investment was $40K, netted $30K in 90 days

    #6 paid 85K used hard money for 3/1 SFR, spent ZERO on rehab, sold for $127K (buyer paid $110,000 cash, and agreed to a $17,000 1 year balloon note at 9%, which will pay off next month, created $125/month income for 12 months, and a nice pop is coming!)

    deals 7 and 8 had a partner - he found the home, I fixed it up, managed the rehab, he sold it, we split the net profit...these were ok deals we split $20,000 on each deal but they took 5 months and 9 months respectively due to issues with contractors doing shoddy work....so if you figure our profit at an hourly rate these were not barn burners...but hey it's $20,000 I didn't have before, so I am fine with that

    #8 paid $265K used hard money, spent ZERO on rehab, wholesaled it in 12 days for $360,000, that was a nice one (sad back story on this one, owner of the property was busted for selling drugs and arrested, then deported to Mexico, so wife took over the drug selling biz...then she got popped, in order for me to be able to close on the home, Escrow had to go to the jail to have the wife sign, then hire a mobile notary to drive down to the SD/Mexico border to have the husband sign) death, divorce, drugs, disease....the 4 D's that create real estate opportunities, sad but true

    #9 paid $205K used hard money, spent $25K on rehab, sold for $300,000

    #10 paid $90K for 3/2 SFR, used hard money, spent $3500 on rehab, rented out for $850/month, slight negative cashflow currently (-$150/month), market value is $130K now, plan on refinancing into better loan in 3 months

    #11 paid $108K for 3/1 SFR used hard money, spent $3000 on rehab, rented out for $850/month, slight negative cashflow currently (-$190/month, market value is $140,000 now, plan on refi into better loan in 3 months

    #12 paid $125,000 for 4/2 SFR used hard money, spent $0 on rehab, house already had a tenant in it paying $900/month, will be raising rent to $1100/month, market value is $160,000, plan on refi into better loan in 3 months

    #13 invested $50,000 with my parents to buy a triplex, for $530,000, property cashflows $1000/month from day one, and value has increased to $700,000

    --------------------------------

    in current pipeline/in escrow - thru these deals I've made good friends and I've made my hard money lender some good money, hard money lender let me know he has $5,000,000 +/- sitting in the bank looking for houses to invest in, and he's given me the green light. So if I think it's a deal, he is on board

    deal #14 $75K purchase for 3/2 SFR, needs $21000 in repairs, will sell for $150,000, will use hard money, fix and flip, or might keep as a rental, will rent for $900/month

    deal #15 $105,000 purchase for 4/2 SFR, needs 13K in repairs, will sell for $160,000, will use hard money, fix and flip, or might keep as rental, will rent for $1100/month

    ---------------------------------

    Real estate has allowed me to create over $600,000 in cash and equity in less than 2 years, I'm still pretty shocked by that, but very happy as well

    I've never done direct mail, these were all done by networking with agents and writing 300 + cash offers to purchase on properties listed on the MLS. If somebody knows anything about direct mail I'd love to learn that part of the business. Direct mail gets you to the seller directly, no agents involved, I know working directly with sellers is the way to get great deals.

    ------

    BP is a great source if information, and the contributors are so positive, I love it here and check back often. Thank you for what you do.

  • Corona, CA · Member since 2015 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    Those are some amazing deals, definitely a lot to learn for someone new like me.

    btw, I am curious, which cities are your flip properties located.

    For some one new to real estate, it might be hard to flip properties esp 12 in a year, as you need considerable cash at hand and knowledge of contractors and rehab properties.

    What would you recommend to a newbie..which cities would be best, is $110k over-pricey for a condo in Redlands/Loma Linda to generate cash flow of $200.

  • Investor · San Ramon, CA · Member since 2013 · 55 posts · 11 votes
    11y

    Since you're from CA, I'd advise you take a look at the market here before going out of state. There are plenty of cheap homes that can bring you good rental income for low prices. Especially if you look in the San Joaquin Valley up to Sacramento. Tesla built a new factory in Lathrop, CA and that place is great for rentals. Especially since mortgages are hard to get and mello-roos are high in the new developments. I specialize in bank statement loans and investor lending if you want to know if I'm an industry professional or not. I am partnered with excellent realtor in that area. 

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.