Wholesaling an Apartment Building

Wholesaling an Apartment Building

Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2013 · 33 posts · 0 votes

So... I've got this apartment building under contract. I've advertised it to the two local REIA groups we have here and I have it posted on Craigslist. I've called several people in my network to let them know. I've had some interest, but people aren't currently breaking down the door to get it. I'm realizing that this might not be as quick and easy as I initially thought.

I've told the seller it's a cash deal. I didn't volunteer the fact that I plan to assign the deal, so she thinks I'm buying it. I put March 15th as the closing date... so it might be rough to find a cash buyer who can close by then.

So my question is, what are some strategies to sting this out. She has already told me that she would like to close by the end of the month because she's going out of the country. What can I say to her so that she won't be upset. I guess I have to give her some excuses.

I was thinking about telling her that my "partner" is out of state. He hasn't seen it yet and he has to approve it. But then that will only last for so long. I don't want to lie, but then I don't want her to get upset either. I'm wondering if it would be best to be completely upfront and tell her that I'm looking for an investor to assign the deal to and explain that I have a lot of networking connections.

I'm sure others have been in this situation. What have you done?

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Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
12y

Andrew, if you're going to pursue wholesaling in this manner.....coming on a forum and plainly asking people what kind of lies and excuses you can give to "string along a seller" you have under a contract whom you made think you are buying their property for cash.....go ahead and give up your license now. This way you won't end up with fines and possible jail time when you do lose it.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Where we are parked · Member since 2013 · 584 posts · 178 votes
    12y

    Hi Andrew,

    What type of deposit did you put down? If the contract expires and you don't close, that's what you lose...unless you didn't give yourself an escape clause. If you are having trouble finding a buyer then that typically means that it's not such a great deal for the price you are selling it for.

    My first piece of advice, don't come up with excuses and lie to the seller. This will make you, and all other wholesalers/investors look bad. Be honest with her and tell her that after doing further research you feel the property is not worth the current contract price and see if she will negotiate with you. If she wants to get rid of it by the end of the month she may well. If she says she won't then tell her you won't be able to close then and you'll just let the contract expire. You can tell her that you are planning on reselling the property and that if you can get it for $XXX that you feel more confident that you will be able to find a buyer and close quickly.

    Best of luck.

  • Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2013 · 33 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    Hey Eric:

    I have an unlimited inspection period. So although I have a decent deposit, it's protected by the inspection clause.

    I'm a licensed agent and think that if I don't get any hot interest soon, I will go ahead and list it as a contract owner. That will give it a lot more exposure. I've also been advertising it as cash only. I think I can drop that. As long as I have a qualified buyer, then what difference does it make? The seller wants cash, but her main priority is to sell. She's getting her cash either way.

    If I have to stall for time, I can simply tell her that my partner doesn't approve due to the current condition. And then I can tell her that I'm still working on him, trying to change his mind. I can let her know that I also have other people interested and I think I can get her what she wants for it. What can she say? Her only other option is to back out of the contract and start all over. She might as well hold off and try getting the money while she can.

  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2013 · 788 posts · 285 votes
    12y

    @Andrew Christie What's wrong with being honest with the seller? Tactics like this just give RE investors a bad name.

    Tell me about the "deal" and I'll tell you why no one is interested.

  • Mark UpdegraffBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Rochester, NY · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 694 votes
    12y
    Well the problem is that he never told her he didn't have the cash... Tell her your original assessment was not correct and you 're not interested yourself but would like to help her solve her problem. Why did you think you could move it so fast? Multi 's can take a long time to move, especially big ones. Show us the numbers, they never lie ;c)
  • Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2013 · 33 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    Hey Bryan:

    I have always been honest with the seller. However, if you tell a seller that you're not actually interested in buying their property and, instead, you just want to market it for them (much like a licensed agent would), but that you're not a licensed agent (although I actually am) so that you can make a quick buck, how successful do you think you'd be as a wholesaler? Oh, and the reason why you do this is because you can make more money that way than you can as a licensed agent. If there are any wholesalers on this site that's dedicated to wholesaling that tells their sellers this and they are successful, please tell me who you are! LOL Most, if not all, sellers would tell you, "no thanks... in that case, I'll just list with an agent!" Everything is in my contract. They agree to the contract. I don't lie to anybody.

    And people actually ARE interested in this deal. It's a GOOD deal. I appreciate you wanting to provide input on the deal, but I don't need that. I know it's a good deal by the reaction I'm getting, especially when I presented it to the Director of Commercial Sales at our brokerage. He actually urged me to increase my selling price! LOL

    BUT... just because it's a good deal doesn't mean it's a quick, easy sale. Just look at the million dollar mansion market! I'm realizing that this is a niche market. I'm not selling something where someone can make a quick buck. I'm selling something that #1) requires a lot of capital and #2) makes a slow buck. Although it's a great return, it's a slow return. And therefore, I'm realizing that I'm going to have to be more patient with this thing than I realized. And because of that, I need to come up with a way to deal with the seller to let her know she will be getting her money, but it just might not be as quickly as she had hoped.

  • Mark UpdegraffBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Rochester, NY · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 694 votes
    12y
    If it was a GREAT deal it would sell. If it's so juicy, why don't you buy it? Why don't you pitch it to us? If you're not capable of closing it, the seller is a fool for accepting it to begin with... You're looking for a buyer to wholesale it, brought it to a forum of investors but don't want to give details... Hmm, what's wrong with this picture? Good luck!
  • Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2013 · 33 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    I have not ruled out the option of buying it myself. I am very tempted to do just that. However, I have a pretty fat wholesale fee on it that I think I can get. I have people interested in it at the price I've offered it at and, as long as there's interest, I think I'm going to opt for the fast cash. If that doesn't pan out, then there's a good chance I'll buy it myself.

    The point of my post was to ask advice on the situation and how to best deal with the seller. However, if you want to know about the deal, here it is:

    6 unit, all 2/1. Each about 650 sqft. Total building size is 4600 sqft. All brick, built in 1971. Nothing has been updated, but it's in decent, certainly rent-able condition.

    NOI for the last 2 years is just under $30k per year. That includes property management, water, sewage, common area utilities, etc. Average cap rate in this area is 7 to 8%. That would put the value at $375k. I'm asking $260k, which gives this an 11.5% cap rate. So imagine what the cap rate is at MY price!

    My property manager is extremely interested with the deal, but she is already tapped out on financing. Like you said, Mark, apartments take time to sell and I definitely underestimated that.

    Other than that, I don't see anything with the picture.

  • Mark UpdegraffBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Rochester, NY · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 694 votes
    12y

    I only work off of hard numbers for analysis. By the lack of detail and the general gist (260K for 6 small units) it sounds bad.

    I'll fill in the blanks you left out and you can correct any numbers that are out of whack. I'm in the highest taxed county in NYS.

    "wholesale" price = 260k

    Rents per unit = 600 or 43200

    -10% PM

    -10% Capital Reserves

    -10% Vacancy Reserves

    -5% Repair

    - verifed taxes (assumed -7,000)

    - insurance (-2000)

    - water (-2000)

    - common electric (-1200)

    Cash on Cash 6%

  • Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2013 · 33 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    Why the 10% capital reserves when you have 5% for repairs?

  • Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2013 · 33 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    Anyway, I tell you're going to shoot this down no matter what I say, but...

    Rents = $750 for section 8 in this area.

    Cash reserves is also a return on your cash unless you spend it, so why not just say 15% repairs if you think you're going to spend it?

    Taxes on this building are only $4300.

    So now we're at 10.15 cash on cash with your capital reserves. 11.9 without.

  • Mark UpdegraffBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Rochester, NY · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 694 votes
    12y

    rents = 750

    Gross yearly = 54000

    -10% PM

    -10% Capital Reserves : This is needed for capital items like roof, HVAC etc

    -10% Vacancy Reserves : if you're not using this, you're not a real estate investor IMO

    -5% Repair : This is all the small stuff that wears out, door knobs, locks, paint...

    - taxes (-4,300), what is the current assessment? How much higher will it go when some lucky "investor" buys it for the "wholesale" price of 260k?

    - insurance (-2000)

    - water (-2000)

    - common electric (-1200)

    - garbage (-1000), it is included in my HIGH taxes, I'm sure it is not in your 4300

    cash on cash = 9.4%

    I call this RETAIL

  • Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2013 · 33 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    Really? 9.4% cash on cash on a stable, appreciating asset is retail? So you think that's average? You think you can just go on to the MLS and buy apartment buildings that will pay 9.4% cash on cash any day of the week?

    I can't find a deal that comes anywhere close to these numbers for $260k on the MLS. The closest thing I can find is listed for $355k. I realize investors rarely pay the listing price, but I also know they almost never negotiate a $95k discount.

    So if $260k is retail, everyone buying off of the MLS is overpaying?

    What do you consider a "good" deal then? And how are you finding these "good" deals? PLEASE pass just ONE off to me!!!

  • Real Estate Investor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 61 posts · 33 votes
    12y
    Andrew Christie I'm a wholesaler and I like to be upfront about what I do. If a seller is uneasy with what you do then they aren't motivated enough for you. Relay the message that you are an investor that collaborates with partners and uses private investment funding for your deals. Another thing is to try to get the price as low as possible. Formulate your maximum allowable offer, giving yourself a fee of at least $5000, and start the bid at a lower point from your MAO.
  • Palm Beach Gardens, FL · Member since 2010 · 50 posts · 7 votes
    12y

    The argument of whether a 9.4% cash on cash return (or in this case an overall CAP rate, and not technically a cash on cash return) is a retail rate or not is irrelevant without consideration of the location. I am a commercial RE appraiser and investor in the South Florida region and, in my market, a 9.4% CAP for a property in an "attractive" location would be very difficult to find. However, in an undesirable area, that return would be expected. I wouldn't take advice from someone unless they have intimate knowledge of your market. Good luck with this property.

  • Mark UpdegraffBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Rochester, NY · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 694 votes
    12y

    You've heard about Loopnet.com right? 10% is standard. Maybe you're looking in the wrong places.... MLS meat goes quick... you need to get it under contract FAST. There is a 14% has been sitting on my market for 23 days. I didn't spot it until today, and I'm writing on it now for a client. Most agents are not investors, and they try to sugar coat crap for new "investors" It takes an investor to find deals, it's all in the numbers. You've got to know them ALL and know them all WELL. You get there through experience. I wouldn't jump into a "wholesale" 6 unit just yet. Get some legs under yourself. There are better deals, trust me! Once you pay 50cents on the real dollar, you'll never want to go back!

  • Mark UpdegraffBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Rochester, NY · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 694 votes
    12y

    @James G. it is assuming an all cash purchase. How is that NOT cash on cash? Maybe I'm confused.

    I agree with your comment on locality. It is extremely relevant. It is the most determining factor in RE investments. I often trade return for better location. It is a balancing act. This thread was about at 260K "Wholesale" deal. I wouldn't consider section 8 to be a killer location by any means. I don't consider this wholesale. I wouldn't buy it for 260. I can do way better with my money.

  • Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2013 · 33 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    Thanks Barry. It's refreshing to have someone actually answer my original question. And yes, James, I concur. When someone tells me that 9.4% cash on cash is retail and I can't find anything close to that in my area, I have to give the benefit of doubt and assume it due to regional variance.

  • Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2013 · 33 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    Mark, what would you consider to be a good price for this deal?

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    12y

    Andrew, if you're going to pursue wholesaling in this manner.....coming on a forum and plainly asking people what kind of lies and excuses you can give to "string along a seller" you have under a contract whom you made think you are buying their property for cash.....go ahead and give up your license now. This way you won't end up with fines and possible jail time when you do lose it.

  • Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2013 · 33 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    Thank Wayne. You're so helpful.

  • Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2013 · 33 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    That's how we help each other on this site, eh? Instead of giving pointers and tips, we tell people to just give it up.

  • Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2013 · 33 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    Hey Mark. Can you send me some properties on Loopnet.com that has a 10%+ cash on cash rate for Norfolk? The highest cap rate I can find is 9.5%, and cap rate is always lower than cash on cash. If 10% is standard, why can't I find any?

  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    @Andrew Christie

    I'll preface this with the upfront admission of not knowing the market your area ... I've ridden my bike in many parts of Virginia, but never purchased real estate there :)

    Here the desirable apartment buildings are sold privately and never see a listing. Occasionally a small one {typically owned by a non-investor} might make it to a wholesaler or agent, but I would be instantly wary of any building being brought to us in this manner as it would be unlikely to be a good deal.

    But, this game is entirely local, and perhaps wholesalers regularly move apartment complexes in your area.

  • Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2013 · 33 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    Roy:

    I think it's wise to be wary of ANY deal brought to you in this manner. If you don't know the person bringing in the deal, the you better spend some time doing your homework. Yet, there are many great deals brought to each other in this manner. So, if you decide to ignore them due to your wariness, then you're going to end up missing out on a lot of good deals. And I don't see why this situation would be different than any other.

    And as a matter of fact, I would think that this situation would be relatively common (I say relatively because there are a lot less multi-unit buildings out there than there are SFHs). But in this situation, the apartment building was purchased by the uncle of the current owners/heirs in 1978, six years after it was built. He owned it for 34 years until he passed in 2012. He left it to his wife, who died a year later. And now his niece inherited it. She lives out of state, knows little about renting multi-unit buildings, and is mainly interested in cashing out. It's a perfect situation to get a great deal!

    I invite you to view the listing on the site that Mark suggested. Thanks for the tip, Mark. I was aware of the site but it has been a while since I've visited it and didn't even think about listing this property there. I now have it listed and it is, by far, the best deal on there for Norfolk, VA.

    http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/MainSite/Listing/Search/SearchResults.aspx#/Norfolk,VA/Multifamily/For-Sale/c!ARUIBQAAAQIB

    Coleman Place is my listing. We'll see if we get any additional interest thought that.

  • Mark UpdegraffBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Rochester, NY · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 694 votes
    12y

    Any savvy investor is going to be hesitant. You've got 2 vacant units to boot.

    Talk is cheap, and seller's have no shortage of it.

    You still have not answered my other question. Namely, what is the assessed value of this property?

    9.5% is still optimistic and probably not accurate.

    When was the roof replaced?

    How is the HVAC?

    I deal with a lot of investors and wannabe investors. It's important to cut to the chase so I'm not wasting my time. In my eyes, based on your commentary, you're eager, but lacking experience which is what got you into this "wholesale" deal to begin with.

    I think you should buy it, since you claim you can, and its the best deal in your area. The only way to learn is to do. You obviously think you know best for your market, and maybe you do. Buy it now and roll around in your spoils when you sell it and makes copious amounts of cash.

    Happy Investing! Let us know how it turns out.

    Mark

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