Found Deals Off Market - Here's How

Found Deals Off Market - Here's How

Investor · Nationally · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 854 votes

Here is a big pro tip:

Stop buying on the MLS. It’s too expensive! There is a process called "Buying Off Market". Where do you think all of those properties on the MLS come from? They were "off market" until they were "discovered by an agent" and put on the MLS. Think of it this way, someone decides to sell their property, so they call a realtor who takes 6% (so they can get paid) and lists it on the MLS. When you find the property before it goes on the MLS, you can buy for 6% less. On a $400,000 house that's about a $24,000 savings. I do this all of the time.

Then I use “Subject To”, which runs $15,000 to $20,000 to buy a property instead of putting 20% down ($80,000 on a $400,000 property), and a similar process called “Seller Financing” that gives way more than 1% monthly income.

There are other ways called “SEO” and “Pay Per Click” and “Yard Signs” and so on to find properties.

That’s right, you can buy 3 properties for $50,000 “Off Market”. Yes, you get depreciation and tax write offs. And it can be done out of state. These are decent homes in decent neighborhoods. Don’t try this in cheap neighborhoods. It’s too much work.

For instance, This property was bought for $5,000 (Five Thousand Dollars).

Click on images to enlarge Purchase & Sale Agreement (many more examples available).

and this one was bought for $5,000 (Five Thousand Dollars).

There are hundreds of people doing these every day around the country.

My experience is the best place to focus on these are the typical places. Dallas, Atlanta, Indianapolis, Columbus. Places where investors are welcome and prices are reasonable.

We’ve had success in WA, AZ, TX, AL, GA.

Oh, I’d not tried in Socal yet, because of the high price point and unfriendly landlord/tenant laws. If someone is buying “off market” in California, please comment.

Isn’t it amazing to see what can be done with investment dollars. Instead of the bank making the money, the investor does. What a thought. A certain amount of people are willing to sell on Creative Finance, like Subject To, (Subto), Wraps & Seller Finance for various reasons.

It's usually under $15,000 or so in "up front" money, so make sure you have some capital. No need for credit, no need for financing. These properties can be used for a rental, fix & flip, STR, Lease Option, 1031 whatever crosses your mind.

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Real Estate Broker · Coppell, TX · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y

Don't be fooled by "off market" properties.  "Off Market" is just a made up marketing term.  So many people get suckered into these "deals".  When 20-30 people show up at 2pm on a Friday to see an "off market" deal, it's not really off market is it?  Very much on the market.  Plus probably 70% or more of these "off market" deals never close.  Title issues, seller issues, non-refundable deposits, no inspection period, lending issues, appraisal issues, liens, IRS liens, city liens, no wills, unpaid back taxes, solar liens, and all kinds of other crazy stuff.   Plus they take a lot of money and time to find and try to make a deal.  Who pays the closing costs on these deals?  If you're the buyer often you're offering to do that which adds to your cost.  If you're buying from a wholesaler, then you might well be pay closing costs x2, theirs and yours.  How quickly those "deals" become non-deals.

Plenty of deals on the MLS. I see them almost every day. Very efficient process. Save your time and money and a ton of headaches vs only focusing on off market deals. For every 100 people I meet who say they will never buy off MLS, I can probably show you 90-95 that haven't done a deal in the last year.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Flipper/Rehabber · Seminole, FL · Member since 2010 · 859 posts · 316 votes
    2y

    Buying subject to deals are more likely to happen off market.  I'm surprised how many Realtors were chiming in upset about Ken simply saying that its advantageous to buy direct from sellers.....   

    I've not seen many listing agents that are helpful at presenting a subject to offer.    It's rare that they do anything creative, right?  I know there are exceptions, as I did buy one deal subject to from a licensed agent.....but it was his own property, and not a customer he was representing.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Seminole, FL · Member since 2010 · 859 posts · 316 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Jimmy C.:

    Buying subject to deals are more likely to happen off market.  I'm surprised how many Realtors were chiming in upset about Ken simply saying that its advantageous to buy direct from sellers.....   

    I've not seen many listing agents that are helpful at presenting a subject to offer.    It's rare that they do anything creative, right?  I know there are exceptions, as I did buy one deal subject to from a licensed agent.....but it was his own property, and not a customer he was representing.

    @Jimmy C.: Now, you're the kind of agent I can work with and refer on to buyers/sellers. You get it. 

    I can imagine sending leads to you. The other agent posters, although fun to debate back and forth, don't possess the intellectual curiosity to figure out how to put an investor and a seller together in the best of both worlds approach. Problem solving.

    To be fair, most brokers would shy away from the subject to offer because of fear of liability.    They'll imagine the possibility of a buyer not making timely payments, and a seller hiring an attorney to sue everyone involved in the transaction later down the road.   

    That's why it makes the most sense for you to make these types of offers without a broker between you and the owner.
  • Flipper/Rehabber · Seminole, FL · Member since 2010 · 859 posts · 316 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Jimmy C.:
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Jimmy C.:

    Buying subject to deals are more likely to happen off market.  I'm surprised how many Realtors were chiming in upset about Ken simply saying that its advantageous to buy direct from sellers.....   

    I've not seen many listing agents that are helpful at presenting a subject to offer.    It's rare that they do anything creative, right?  I know there are exceptions, as I did buy one deal subject to from a licensed agent.....but it was his own property, and not a customer he was representing.

    @Jimmy C.: Now, you're the kind of agent I can work with and refer on to buyers/sellers. You get it. 

    I can imagine sending leads to you. The other agent posters, although fun to debate back and forth, don't possess the intellectual curiosity to figure out how to put an investor and a seller together in the best of both worlds approach. Problem solving.

    To be fair, most brokers would shy away from the subject to offer because of fear of liability.    They'll imagine the possibility of a buyer not making timely payments, and a seller hiring an attorney to sue everyone involved in the transaction later down the road.   

    That's why it makes the most sense for you to make these types of offers without a broker between you and the owner.

    You are absolutely correct. There is liability, especailly if an agent got in between a buyer and a seller in a bad deal. I would not recommend that an agent broker the deal. But, it may still be a valid deal for the seller and the buyer without an agent inolved.

    Here's the thing, anyone that limits their investing to "Subject To" only, is foolish and wasting opportunities. There are Cash, Wraps, Seller Financing, Carrybacks, Contract for Deed, Lease Options and of course, FHA, VA, Conventional loans, HELOCS and commercial among other approaches.

    But, if I said that, the other agents wouldn't comment and hits to my website would decline. Lol :-)

    For some reason "Subject To" elicits responses like a steak to a Doberman pincher.

    Hey if it's working, no sense in changing anything.  Lol

    Happy hunting out there
  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Jimmy C.:
    Quote from @Account Closed:


    But, if I said that, the other agents wouldn't comment and hits to my website would decline. Lol :-)

    For some reason "Subject To" elicits responses like a steak to a Doberman pincher....


    So your saying this whole thing is just a Self-Promotion.... 

    Thanks for the honest clarity. 

  • Member since 2022 · 14 posts · 27 votes
    2y

    Hi @Account Closed,

    I was wondering how you fund good general contractors. I've had no luck asking people I know, looking on yelp and asking on BP for recommendations.


    I've been asking apartment complex PMs for recommendations but have had 0 luck when I call those GCs as well.

  • Melanie P.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 922 votes
    2y

    @Account Closed Please return to reality. Arguing back and forth with posters having a discussion in your thread about the flawed premise that "there are no deals on the MLS" is not a good look. This is a discussion forum. When you start a thread expect others to discuss the topic you post about - in ways that do and do not support your marketing objective.

    A look at your website shows several pictures of houses with the text "Purchased using Subject To" but no information as to the address nor the actual deal details. Your claim of closing "hundreds" of SubTo transactions is dubious. As is the list of states you've added when every contract on the site says Arizona. I am not going to totally roast you, yet, as I do not think anything you've put out there would induce someone to send you the $15,000 you request for coaching. But based on what I've read of your personality you'll probably feel the need to argue with this and force me to fully shut down your nonsense. Time will tell.

    If you wish to advertise on BiggerPockets in a way that controls your narrative you can do so at https://www.biggerpockets.com/advertise

    If you have time to coach for $290 a week perhaps a better use of your time would be focusing on your existing profitable real estate endeavors and expanding them until coaching is not an option. Who is MIke?

  • Melanie P.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 922 votes
    2y
    Alright, you're begging for it...

     You forgot to mention who Mike is. Who is the mysterious other half of the "SubTo guys?" 

    Hits are one thing, conversions are another. When you see your hits "flourish" and four or five people visit your site, how many convert? Zero so far, right? The website is awful. Zero credibility, zero point really. It is, in fact, a perfect reflection of the persona you are pushing here.

    Anyway, this is all new to you, right? Weren't you doing something else up until about a year ago? Tell us about that... what led you to transition from services to investment "coach?"

    If you're such a fan of Kohler why do you use Keyt? BTW, Dick didn't do a great job. Your pitch is to hold someone's hand, spending two hours per week one-on-one with them for $280 per week. That's what you're hoping to get to. No thanks. I can't be tied down like that every week for a year for $280. Even if you could get it to work, which you won't, it's a bad plan. 

    If you continue to dialogue with me expect the questions to get harder each time. Fair warning.

  • Melanie P.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 922 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Melanie P.:
    Alright, you're begging for it...

     You forgot to mention who Mike is. Who is the mysterious other half of the "SubTo guys?" 

    Hits are one thing, conversions are another. When you see your hits "flourish" and four or five people visit your site, how many convert? Zero so far, right? The website is awful. Zero credibility, zero point really. It is, in fact, a perfect reflection of the persona you are pushing here.

    Anyway, this is all new to you, right? Weren't you doing something else up until about a year ago? Tell us about that... what led you to transition from services to investment "coach?"

    If you're such a fan of Kohler why do you use Keyt? BTW, Dick didn't do a great job. Your pitch is to hold someone's hand, spending two hours per week one-on-one with them for $280 per week. That's what you're hoping to get to. No thanks. I can't be tied down like that every week for a year for $280. Even if you could get it to work, which you won't, it's a bad plan. 

    If you continue to dialogue with me expect the questions to get harder each time. Fair warning.

    Your Bio says you call yourself

    "Part time syndicator-hating world-champion b itch." 

    Nice. That will endear you to people.

    Oooh, a tigress. Growwllll . . .


    You haven't met my buddy @Mike Hern? Here ya go https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/mikeh695 

    The webwite works. We're happy.

    I have bought properties off market using subject to and creative finance for 30 years. What have you been up to?


    I'm just a pathetic old landlady with too much time on her hands and expert-level due diligence skills. I make no claims and don't ask for money, but rather try to pass on a bit of my life experience to help the next person do it faster and better. But, I am not the topic.

    And if we're going back 30 years, you've been up to a lot more than that... Is "creative" the word used for obscuring the true origin of non medical equipment and then passing it off to your customers as higher medical-grade gloves? Peeling off thousands of "made in China" labels definitely sounds crooked and illegal but not necessarily "creative."

    What happened with your pool cleaning business? Nothing to indicate it got sold... couldn't get customers for that either? Too bad, it's the most productive, honest work you ever did. Who is Ken Keith?

    One would think given all of your life experience that you would learn that if you're telling lie after lie to make the sale, make the point, that it's time for a course correction. BTW, lying about your qualifications will be problematic if someone does sign up, doesn't get a property bought and you are unable to reimburse them as promised for any reason. 

    Did I get specific enough this time? I'm giving you chance after chance to drop the arrogant petty dialogue and move on to greener pastures. If you need more attention feel free to reply and I'll give it to you. 

  • Melanie P.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 922 votes
    2y

     Yep, you just cannot help yourself. One cannot be defamed by the truth. When the truth tends to harm your reputation it is your reputation that is the lie. Go ahead and sue the Seattle Times too. Shoot your best shot buddy. You were given ample warning to tone it down with me.

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Melanie P.:

     Yep, you just cannot help yourself. One cannot be defamed by the truth. When the truth tends to harm your reputation it is your reputation that is the lie. Go ahead and sue the Seattle Times too. Shoot your best shot buddy. You were given ample warning to tone it down with me.

    Ken, if your gonna post pic's depicting Melanie get-it-right buddy-boy.... She a brilliant warrior not some passive "kitty". For a guy living in a "glass house" Ken, she warned ya....

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @James Hamling:
    Quote from @Melanie P.:

     Yep, you just cannot help yourself. One cannot be defamed by the truth. When the truth tends to harm your reputation it is your reputation that is the lie. Go ahead and sue the Seattle Times too. Shoot your best shot buddy. You were given ample warning to tone it down with me.

    Ken, if your gonna post pic's depicting Melanie get-it-right buddy-boy.... She a brilliant warrior not some passive "kitty". For a guy living in a "glass house" Ken, she warned ya....

    What is interesting is that neither one of you have enough self esteem to actually help people. All you do is push lies and tear down.

    I'm about building up and seeing success. If you want my help, simply benefit from the numerous posts I've done, which are free.

    I don't do mental health counseling, I'm sorry, but there are people available to address your delusions and concerns. I suggest you find one and start a program.

    There are probably "free" mental health clinics out there and since the word "free" seems to control your life, it would be appropriate that you find a “free” one. But, do keep in mind, you get what you pay for.

    I don’t mean to be rude, but there is no value in having (trying to have) a reasonable conversation with either of you until you’ve finished your counseling.

    WARNING:

    For those lurkers reading this, This is the culmination of trying to be reasonable with these two and for some reason, each of these people have little to contribute, poorly thought through ideas, lots of time on their hands and a nasty disposition. It is what it is.

    I would recommend never doing business with either. You will regret it if you do. They have clearly demonstrated that.


    Oh Ken.... It must have been hard when you got fired as a used Car Salesman for being TOO sleezy, lying TOO much and being far too clueless on, well, anything & everything.... 

    Everyone who can read Ken is well aware of just what a deceitful manipulative wind-bag you are. Spin-spin-SPINNING your way through any interaction, relying on distortion and out right lies or ridiculousness as your shield when any touch on the truth of you what so ever. 

    In days past BP would have banned you rapidly for the not-so-veiled self-promotions. And than again for the trolling nature of your deluge of lies and distortion you utilize. 

    All can CLEARLY read our actions to protect and defend unwitting persons from a scum-bag CHARLITAN such as you ken. 

    I call you for exactly what you are Ken; a liar, a con-artist, a charlatan. 

    The sad truth is Ken is if you could just STOP your obsession for lying long enough to get some real experience, to put in some real work vs trying to con people, you would gain some actual knowledge and experience and not need to focus on lying your way through life. 

    I pity you Ken. I pity your pathetic life of lies. Because I know at heart of it you wake every morning, look in the mirror, and think if you lie enough maybe you won't be disgusted by who you see looking back at you.... 

    Good bye Ken

  • Scott TrenchPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    2y

    Update:

    After investigation into Ken, we have made the determination to ban his account for violation of our forum rules. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Scott Trench:

    Update:

    After investigation into Ken, we have made the determination to ban his account for violation of our forum rules. 


    Thank you what about Mike H is alter ego ?  I mean I get it we are all in business.. However the shameless self promotion these guys have done over the last 6 months is just something that BP never would have allowed in the past.. Thank Scott for jumping in here. I know its a fine line between contributing to the community and self promoting ones business..
  • Scott TrenchPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    2y

    We have deactivated Mike H's account as well. 

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