Are Wholesalers Really Your Golden Ticket To Succes??

Are Wholesalers Really Your Golden Ticket To Succes??

Stuart UdisPro Member
Attorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

Ok, I'm sure I'll get a lot of blowback for writing this but why is there a growing belief amongst the BiggerPockets community that wholesalers are the gatekeepers to good real estate deals and critical to your overall success? From my observations, most properties marketed by wholesalers are not "off market deals". They are properties circulated to long lists of unsophisticated buyers and if you are the highest offer you've likely outbid a bunch of prospective buyers who underestimated their improvement costs or overestimated their ARV while most likely proceeding without the ability to perform normal transaction diligence.

Add to this the rapidly evolving regulatory climate with additional disclosures many wholesalers are required to make before entering into contracts. In most cases the better wholesale deals are the result of uninformed sellers. I assume many of these Sellers may consider other options with more information at their disposal. I also suspect these regulations are coming to a town near you if they haven’t already because  that’s the trend.

Despite my observations, many place such great emphasis on networking with wholesalers as if they are the golden ticket to success. You often hear from real estate investors who scaled businesses  attribute their success to great contractor relationships, a realtor who helped identify an underserved housing need, lenders who gave them a chance despite not having a balance sheet, even good attorneys who navigated them through entitlements or perhaps accountants who educated them on tax saving strategies.  I haven’t heard the story of  the investor who rode the coat tails of a wholesaler to the same level of success but networking and building relationships with wholesalers seems to be prioritized over all others industry participants. 

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Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y

Anyone who places an emphasis on networking with wholesalers as a golden ticket is a wholesaler. If you're counting on wholesalers for success you're screwed. 

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  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Stuart Udis:

    Ok, I'm sure I'll get a lot of blowback for writing this but why is there a growing belief amongst the BiggerPockets community that wholesalers are the gatekeepers to good real estate deals and critical to your overall success? From my observations, most properties marketed by wholesalers are not "off market deals". They are properties circulated to long lists of unsophisticated buyers and if you are the highest offer you've likely outbid a bunch of prospective buyers who underestimated their improvement costs or overestimated their ARV while most likely proceeding without the ability to perform normal transaction diligence.

    Add to this the rapidly evolving regulatory climate with additional disclosures many wholesalers are required to make before entering into contracts. In most cases the better wholesale deals are the result of uninformed sellers. I assume many of these Sellers may consider other options with more information at their disposal. I also suspect these regulations are coming to a town near you if they haven’t already because  that’s the trend.

    Despite my observations, many place such great emphasis on networking with wholesalers as if they are the golden ticket to success. You often hear from real estate investors who scaled businesses  attribute their success to great contractor relationships, a realtor who helped identify an underserved housing need, lenders who gave them a chance despite not having a balance sheet, even good attorneys who navigated them through entitlements or perhaps accountants who educated them on tax saving strategies.  I haven’t heard the story of  the investor who rode the coat tails of a wholesaler to the same level of success but networking and building relationships with wholesalers seems to be prioritized over all others industry participants. 


     I have bought one property from a wholesaler, and its one of the largest in our region. I would have to guess they easily spend six figures a year on marketing. They have a ton of properties. Typically they are over valued based on their comps they provide, so make sure to do your own comps.

    Also as you mention, I have had a lot better luck with realtors on pocket listings or just in conversations with them than I have had with wholesalers. Now this is not to say there are not good wholesalers out there, but I would say majority I have spoken with are not experienced and did not add any value. Just my 2 cents but I am sure in certain markets again - can be a great strategy.

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  • Investor · Bucks County · Member since 2023 · 196 posts · 157 votes
    2y

    I'm on more buyer mailing lists than I can count and haven't been sent a single decent property yet. There was a panel of wholesalers at a local networking event recently and they worshipped as if they were god like figures. 

  • Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    Anyone who places an emphasis on networking with wholesalers as a golden ticket is a wholesaler. If you're counting on wholesalers for success you're screwed. 

  • Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nick C.:

    Anyone who places an emphasis on networking with wholesalers as a golden ticket is a wholesaler. If you're counting on wholesalers for success you're screwed. 


     We'll let me sum it up. I live on the beach and do all my biz OOS.I have done let's just say one or two deals over the last 10 years all 100% remote. Buy, fix, rent and or flip to other OOS and country investors. I get 90% of my deals from wholesalers. I can still get as many as I want. I am closing on 3 more SF and 2 more duplex's this month oh and a 6 unit. So, I guess it all depends on the quality of your network. 

    All the best 

  • Luis RamosPro Member
    Member since 2018 · 28 posts · 23 votes
    2y

    I always negotiate with the wholesaler and I knock it way down. For example, a wholesaler brought a SFR at $110k, i talked him down to $82k. ARV $160k after $40k in repairs.

    So even though the deals wholesaler might not pencil out at first glance, negotiate down. At the end , they don't care as they negotiate down with the seller. 

  • Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Luis Ramos:

    I always negotiate with the wholesaler and I knock it way down. For example, a wholesaler brought a SFR at $110k, i talked him down to $82k. ARV $160k after $40k in repairs.

    So even though the deals wholesaler might not pencil out at first glance, negotiate down. At the end , they don't care as they negotiate down with the seller. 


     Great job!! Yes, some of these guys WAAAAAY overprice it. 

  • Joe S.Pro Member
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Bob S.:
    Quote from @Nick C.:

    Anyone who places an emphasis on networking with wholesalers as a golden ticket is a wholesaler. If you're counting on wholesalers for success you're screwed. 


     We'll let me sum it up. I live on the beach and do all my biz OOS.I have done let's just say one or two deals over the last 10 years all 100% remote. Buy, fix, rent and or flip to other OOS and country investors. I get 90% of my deals from wholesalers. I can still get as many as I want. I am closing on 3 more SF and 2 more duplex's this month oh and a 6 unit. So, I guess it all depends on the quality of your network. 

    All the best 

    Bob your the exception. Not likely, you rolled into this like a new person would have. chances, are you spent years building up your network.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Joe S.:
    Quote from @Bob S.:
    Quote from @Nick C.:

    Anyone who places an emphasis on networking with wholesalers as a golden ticket is a wholesaler. If you're counting on wholesalers for success you're screwed. 


     We'll let me sum it up. I live on the beach and do all my biz OOS.I have done let's just say one or two deals over the last 10 years all 100% remote. Buy, fix, rent and or flip to other OOS and country investors. I get 90% of my deals from wholesalers. I can still get as many as I want. I am closing on 3 more SF and 2 more duplex's this month oh and a 6 unit. So, I guess it all depends on the quality of your network. 

    All the best 

    Bob your the exception. 

    he is also working D low C class areas and those are dominated by wholesalers full stop.
  • Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Joe S.:
    Quote from @Bob S.:
    Quote from @Nick C.:

    Anyone who places an emphasis on networking with wholesalers as a golden ticket is a wholesaler. If you're counting on wholesalers for success you're screwed. 


     We'll let me sum it up. I live on the beach and do all my biz OOS.I have done let's just say one or two deals over the last 10 years all 100% remote. Buy, fix, rent and or flip to other OOS and country investors. I get 90% of my deals from wholesalers. I can still get as many as I want. I am closing on 3 more SF and 2 more duplex's this month oh and a 6 unit. So, I guess it all depends on the quality of your network. 

    All the best 

    Bob your the exception. 

    he is also working D low C class areas and those are dominated by wholesalers full stop.

     B, C mostly,( Nothing in my market starts with an A) MH. GH. WH, Lee Harvard, all areas that have tripled or more in pricing. I just picked up two in MH that will rent for 1800ish, 

  • Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Joe S.:
    Quote from @Bob S.:
    Quote from @Nick C.:

    Anyone who places an emphasis on networking with wholesalers as a golden ticket is a wholesaler. If you're counting on wholesalers for success you're screwed. 


     We'll let me sum it up. I live on the beach and do all my biz OOS.I have done let's just say one or two deals over the last 10 years all 100% remote. Buy, fix, rent and or flip to other OOS and country investors. I get 90% of my deals from wholesalers. I can still get as many as I want. I am closing on 3 more SF and 2 more duplex's this month oh and a 6 unit. So, I guess it all depends on the quality of your network. 

    All the best 

    Bob your the exception. Not likely, you rolled into this like a new person would have. chances, are you spent years building up your network.

    It's really not that difficult. Just go to the local forums, deals everywhere :) 
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Bob S.:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Joe S.:
    Quote from @Bob S.:
    Quote from @Nick C.:

    Anyone who places an emphasis on networking with wholesalers as a golden ticket is a wholesaler. If you're counting on wholesalers for success you're screwed. 


     We'll let me sum it up. I live on the beach and do all my biz OOS.I have done let's just say one or two deals over the last 10 years all 100% remote. Buy, fix, rent and or flip to other OOS and country investors. I get 90% of my deals from wholesalers. I can still get as many as I want. I am closing on 3 more SF and 2 more duplex's this month oh and a 6 unit. So, I guess it all depends on the quality of your network. 

    All the best 

    Bob your the exception. 

    he is also working D low C class areas and those are dominated by wholesalers full stop.

     B, C mostly,( Nothing in my market starts with an A) MH. GH. WH, Lee Harvard, all areas that have tripled or more in pricing. I just picked up two in MH that will rent for 1800ish, 


    Bob your B C is my C D we all have our opinions  LOL..
  • Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Bob S.:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Joe S.:
    Quote from @Bob S.:
    Quote from @Nick C.:

    Anyone who places an emphasis on networking with wholesalers as a golden ticket is a wholesaler. If you're counting on wholesalers for success you're screwed. 


     We'll let me sum it up. I live on the beach and do all my biz OOS.I have done let's just say one or two deals over the last 10 years all 100% remote. Buy, fix, rent and or flip to other OOS and country investors. I get 90% of my deals from wholesalers. I can still get as many as I want. I am closing on 3 more SF and 2 more duplex's this month oh and a 6 unit. So, I guess it all depends on the quality of your network. 

    All the best 

    Bob your the exception. 

    he is also working D low C class areas and those are dominated by wholesalers full stop.

     B, C mostly,( Nothing in my market starts with an A) MH. GH. WH, Lee Harvard, all areas that have tripled or more in pricing. I just picked up two in MH that will rent for 1800ish, 


    Bob your B C is my C D we all have our opinions  LOL..

     I get it, Maple, Garfield, Euclid, Warrensville, Lee Harvard are not a C. That would make East Clev, an K lol 

    All the best Jay 

  • Lender · Kingsville, MD · Member since 2023 · 103 posts · 35 votes
    2y

    Quick question to everyone, if you are not utilizing a wholesaler, then what is the way you find the best deals?

  • Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    I get so many wholesale deals emailed to me and almost all of them are priced higher then what a good negotiater can get off the MLS. The numbers are completely fake, with rehab costs that aren't even 50% of real life expenses. The rare good deal they get, the wholesaler will just buy and flip themselves.

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Logan Lambert:

    Quick question to everyone, if you are not utilizing a wholesaler, then what is the way you find the best deals?


    I feel like this is a trick question.......

    Aaaaahhhh..... The owner/sellers........ Ya know, the place wholesalers are getting them from....... 

  • Lender · Kingsville, MD · Member since 2023 · 103 posts · 35 votes
    2y
    Quote from @James Hamling:
    Quote from @Logan Lambert:

    Quick question to everyone, if you are not utilizing a wholesaler, then what is the way you find the best deals?


    I feel like this is a trick question.......

    Aaaaahhhh..... The owner/sellers........ Ya know, the place wholesalers are getting them from....... 


     Not a trick question at all. I’m referring to deals that you were going to either fix and flip or fix and hold, are you referring to for sale by owner properties or are you using redfin and Zillow to buy on market properties that are distressed listed by agents?

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Logan Lambert:
    Quote from @James Hamling:
    Quote from @Logan Lambert:

    Quick question to everyone, if you are not utilizing a wholesaler, then what is the way you find the best deals?


    I feel like this is a trick question.......

    Aaaaahhhh..... The owner/sellers........ Ya know, the place wholesalers are getting them from....... 


     Not a trick question at all. I’m referring to deals that you were going to either fix and flip or fix and hold, are you referring to for sale by owner properties or are you using redfin and Zillow to buy on market properties that are distressed listed by agents?

    No, you said how does one find a "deal" without a wholesaler, it's very simple, you simply put in the work to either (A) be found by these sellers who are "deals"     -OR- (B) you approach them yourself. 

    Look, '09' I built and employed a small "army" of wholesalers. I had a whole incubator program I called "0-Hero" where I would train a person in everything, literally everything, from 0, and promoted best part was no buyer-list needed or struggle to find $ because that was me, done, ready to go just do the steps. 

    Wholesalers made sense then, they were a needed thing. 

    Today, no, everything has changed, EVERYTHING. 

    There is ready access to a ridiculous amount of tools, resources and information not to mention ready-2-go systems. That didn't exist back then. 

    Truth is today nobody "needs" a wholesaler. Sure, you can choose to use one but nobody needs to. Because you can put in the work and just deploy your own system to get those leads directly yourself. 

    This can be done with rather limited capital and in rather limited time, 10-20hrs a week is a legit affective amount of time if it's intelligently used. 

    And the ways in which you can go after leads is almost endless. You can drive for dollars, go after pre-foreclosures, distressed sellers, PPC, organic search SEO, MLS expired, FSBO's, r.e. agent network, estate and probate, on and on and on.

    Back in the day, '09' when I was getting going, it was 10,000X harder. I would literally go out, pick a neighborhood, and walk door 2 door knocking. I did this 3-4 days a week, I'd just knock doors. No, not "ugly" doors, I knocked EVERY door in my target area, and just talk to people, share what I did, what I was looking for, homes I could flip.     And it was simple math, the more people I spoke with, the more interactions I had, the more "hey, you should talk to so-and-so" I would get. 

    I was a weirdo freak for what I was doing back then, people would ask what flipping is. Today, it's SOOoooo much easier. People will look for you if you just put yourself out there to be known and found. 

    There is no lack of opportunities for deals, there is only a lack of EFFORT, a lack in the "get off the couch and DO something".     Put up a website, go knock doors, go talk to retirement communities, divorce attorneys, GET OUT THERE it's really not complicated. 

    This works in literally EVERY property classification, every type. Get out there, make yourself known, spread the word, and BE OF SERVICE. 

    Halloweens coming, get into some Halloween parades and put together candies in wrapper of "I buy homes, maybe your looking to sell, let's talk" and hand it out. 

    GET OFF THE COUCH and get out there, interact, connect, TALK, network. Network is just fancy word for talking to lot's of people about what ya do. 

    Or, ya know, pay someone to do all that and hope n pray there is any profit left on it for you. 

  • Lender · Kingsville, MD · Member since 2023 · 103 posts · 35 votes
    2y
    Quote from @James Hamling:
    Quote from @Logan Lambert:
    Quote from @James Hamling:
    Quote from @Logan Lambert:

    Quick question to everyone, if you are not utilizing a wholesaler, then what is the way you find the best deals?


    I feel like this is a trick question.......

    Aaaaahhhh..... The owner/sellers........ Ya know, the place wholesalers are getting them from....... 


     Not a trick question at all. I’m referring to deals that you were going to either fix and flip or fix and hold, are you referring to for sale by owner properties or are you using redfin and Zillow to buy on market properties that are distressed listed by agents?

    No, you said how does one find a "deal" without a wholesaler, it's very simple, you simply put in the work to either (A) be found by these sellers who are "deals"     -OR- (B) you approach them yourself. 

    Look, '09' I built and employed a small "army" of wholesalers. I had a whole incubator program I called "0-Hero" where I would train a person in everything, literally everything, from 0, and promoted best part was no buyer-list needed or struggle to find $ because that was me, done, ready to go just do the steps. 

    Wholesalers made sense then, they were a needed thing. 

    Today, no, everything has changed, EVERYTHING. 

    There is ready access to a ridiculous amount of tools, resources and information not to mention ready-2-go systems. That didn't exist back then. 

    Truth is today nobody "needs" a wholesaler. Sure, you can choose to use one but nobody needs to. Because you can put in the work and just deploy your own system to get those leads directly yourself. 

    This can be done with rather limited capital and in rather limited time, 10-20hrs a week is a legit affective amount of time if it's intelligently used. 

    And the ways in which you can go after leads is almost endless. You can drive for dollars, go after pre-foreclosures, distressed sellers, PPC, organic search SEO, MLS expired, FSBO's, r.e. agent network, estate and probate, on and on and on.

    Back in the day, '09' when I was getting going, it was 10,000X harder. I would literally go out, pick a neighborhood, and walk door 2 door knocking. I did this 3-4 days a week, I'd just knock doors. No, not "ugly" doors, I knocked EVERY door in my target area, and just talk to people, share what I did, what I was looking for, homes I could flip.     And it was simple math, the more people I spoke with, the more interactions I had, the more "hey, you should talk to so-and-so" I would get. 

    I was a weirdo freak for what I was doing back then, people would ask what flipping is. Today, it's SOOoooo much easier. People will look for you if you just put yourself out there to be known and found. 

    There is no lack of opportunities for deals, there is only a lack of EFFORT, a lack in the "get off the couch and DO something".     Put up a website, go knock doors, go talk to retirement communities, divorce attorneys, GET OUT THERE it's really not complicated. 

    This works in literally EVERY property classification, every type. Get out there, make yourself known, spread the word, and BE OF SERVICE. 

    Halloweens coming, get into some Halloween parades and put together candies in wrapper of "I buy homes, maybe your looking to sell, let's talk" and hand it out. 

    GET OFF THE COUCH and get out there, interact, connect, TALK, network. Network is just fancy word for talking to lot's of people about what ya do. 

    Or, ya know, pay someone to do all that and hope n pray there is any profit left on it for you. 


    Great answer. I agree with you 100% here. I was not asking for myself but more of a general question of what people who do not utilize wholesalers do. I wanted to get feedback. I agree with you on getting out there and finding them yourself. I drive for dollars and cold call and hit all the local networking events. Not to just find properties but also building my clientele for the lending side. I work with tons of investors and agents and come across so many deals just by being connected to the right people. I appreciate the insight and love how you got out there and knocked doors. I did the same when I was selling roofs and will knock on a doors super quick to talk about buying their property. The world is lazy for sure and those who work hard get the worm first. Keep crushing it out there!

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 109 posts · 30 votes
    2y

    In the Phoenix market, I haven’t encountered a wholesale deal in the past year that I would consider a good opportunity, despite reviewing hundreds—well over a thousand, in fact. Their comparable sales are almost always significantly inflated, and they lack the expertise to accurately budget for renovations. Frankly, these practices are detrimental to our industry. It’s clear that the companies dominating this space are keeping the best deals for themselves, leaving only the undesirable properties for the open market. If I were in their position, I’d likely do the same. I strongly believe that legislation should be introduced to prohibit property wholesaling and also prevent double closings unless it can be demonstrated that the property's value has been substantially improved.  This would bring us back to the pre-2010 days, before the real estate flipping market became oversaturated. Those of us with more experience in the industry would once again have the opportunity to build direct connections with homeowners and secure better deals.

  • Specialist · Krakow, Europe · Member since 2019 · 87 posts · 25 votes
    2y

    @Stuart Udis

    Like every industry, there are those who are highly successful, reputable, and advanced, while others are average, filled with fluff, or even scams. It’s a misconception that all wholesalers simply work with circulated deals. The successful ones invest a lot of time and money into building connections with off-market sellers and crafting compelling deals for them.

    In addition, one of the best things any flipper or investor can do is to develop their own off-market seller marketing strategies. This works well for wholesalers who sell deals to flippers, and flippers or investors can benefit even more by going the extra mile to generate their own off-market leads.

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