Detroit??? Has anyone been purchasing there? Why, Why not?
West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 0 votes
Detroit??? Has anyone been purchasing there? Why, Why not?
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Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2014 · 811 posts · 420 votes
11y
Who invited Rush Limbaugh on to BP
65 Replies
- Residential Real Estate Agent · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2013 · 17 posts · 12 votes11y
it would be just a hunch but, I have to guess most of the people that are trash talking Detroit have never been there. Why do I say that? Because I was one of them... Now I own 10 SFH's and plan to bring that number to 30 very soon.
- Castlewood, VA · Member since 2012 · 177 posts · 57 votes11y
Originally posted by @Mardochee Pierre:
Keyword here is METRO!!!
I'm a Detroit Proper and Detroit Metro buy & hold investor, and I can't stress enough how important the difference between the two.
- Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 73 posts · 41 votes11y
Exactly. Like I said. Listen to people who have some skin in the game or people who have some tangible information and you will be fine.
- Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 808 posts · 417 votes11y
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics".
I am a huge fan of numbers too but in this case the demand could easily be artificial. Someone who buys a house for $5K puts a lipstick on it and flips it to an investor is technically doing a "profitable" flip. Also, big percentage gains when housing sells at $5K and there are huge amounts of investors buying just because of that is meaningless.
You are definitely correct that people on the ground are the best to talk to and there have been many debates from people in and around the area. However, there is a huge difference between them doing well and someone else doing well. As far as I can tell you are about as likely to end up with a huge problem as a good investment as an out of state investor.
- Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 73 posts · 41 votes11y
That's why you have to do the due diligence. Anyone who expects to buy a 5k and flip it without doing any research is a fool. Secondly, Detroit isn't even close to being the city it can be. This a long term rebuilding process and in mean time you'll have peaks and valleys. That being said there are full of investment opportunities and the potential for growth are great.
- Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 73 posts · 41 votes11y
As an out of state investor the problems are multiplied and they will get out of hand if you don't have a process to deal problems as they arise. As I have said it all depends on what your investment strategy is.
- tampa, FL · Member since 2014 · 86 posts · 23 votes11y
Warren buffet always says buy when others are scared and sell when others are buying. I dont have the testicular fortitude to invest in Detroit but id imagine you can make some money there IF you know what you're doing. I think a great strategy would be to go in and buy entire neighborhoods of those 25k houses and completely redesign the area. Turn them into MF, townhomes or nice, middle class SF. If you've got the cash, time and vision, you can make it happen. Only thing i would be leary of is long term, how many people under the age of 30 would actually consider moving to Detroit? You hear of boston, NY, San Fran, Austin, Dallas, Atlanta and a few others but you never hear about Detroit. I dont know that the economy will ever really boom out there without major help in the form of subsidies and tax breaks but thats a major gamble. So no jobs, no rent.
- Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Fred Conway:
Warren buffet always says buy when others are scared and sell when others are buying. I dont have the testicular fortitude to invest in Detroit but id imagine you can make some money there IF you know what you're doing. I think a great strategy would be to go in and buy entire neighborhoods of those 25k houses and completely redesign the area. Turn them into MF, townhomes or nice, middle class SF. If you've got the cash, time and vision, you can make it happen. Only thing i would be leary of is long term, how many people under the age of 30 would actually consider moving to Detroit? You hear of boston, NY, San Fran, Austin, Dallas, Atlanta and a few others but you never hear about Detroit. I dont know that the economy will ever really boom out there without major help in the form of subsidies and tax breaks but thats a major gamble. So no jobs, no rent.
Are you going to buy the local school, and "redesign" them, as well? As long as the schools are a nightmare, you cannot "turn" a neighborhood to "nice, middle class SF."
So, is there any evidence that Detroit's schools are turning around? I have looked, and can't find any. But I am willing to be persuaded.
- Investor · Shelbyville, KY · Member since 2011 · 93 posts · 20 votes11y
Richard C brings up a very valid point and it relates to my MENTALITY comment . I have been to Detroit and its Burbs maybe 15 ? times in the past 10-12 years . I was even considering investing there but something in my GUT told me to hold off for a while . I am certainly glad I did . The same could be said of the South Side of Chicago . I am NOT one to invest in D properties or WAR zones . If others elect to do so ? Hey its your money have at it . I have also never done any Section 8 housing NOR chose to do so .
I just fail to see the reason WHY to do such . Someone please tell me WHY i should . ?
Again like Richard said demolish about 1/3 of the town , Get the Teachers union to take a hike , Address the Schools / Education NEEDS as opposed to being so VERY politically correct at all times to what is taught . WHERE are all these NEW and PERMANENT jobs in Detroit ? Sorry I am just NOT buying the political HYPE .
We as a country should be ashamed that there are 3rd , 4th generations of people living on Welfare and Govt Support . Yes I do acknowledge there are those that truly do have a NEED for the services available . as opposed to the WANTS of the general populace . I don't have an Obama Phone and I Ain't AXING for No Obama Internet either !
You want your free housing , your food stamps , your other Vouchers ? Try working for it Not living off my Dime . Clean up the mess you created .
Lest anyone ask ? NO I don't belong to the KKK . It is NOT a White , Black , Brown , Green or Pink issue it is a MENTALITY issue .
I have said before when the wife and I got married we did NOT have a Pot to PIXX in . Through multi jobs and Hard work after 45 years I guess you could say " We Made it " Again it is a Mentality THANG
- Professional · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
A number of our solo 401k and IRA clients have heavily invested in Detroit real estate in the last two years.
- Realtor · Detroit, MI · Member since 2013 · 278 posts · 114 votes11y
@Bob Baldwin What people are failing to see here and other places is socialism. You are right it's not about race it's about economics. A free lunch creates a society where people will keep electing politicians that will continue to provide there means of existence. I had a vision where people are lined getting free government services( phone, healthcare, bridge card, unemployment, water, etc). An Ant, a Bee and a Squirrel walks by and is offered a pamphlet. In unison they all say "No Thank You".
- Investor · Shelbyville, KY · Member since 2011 · 93 posts · 20 votes11y
Al : Maybe it is me but you do reach a point with the Socialism MENTALITY that sooner or latter the Flow of Cash to the Give Me , Give Me crowd will dry up .Hence our DEFICIT of 19 TRILLION $$$ . Most of these Elected Politicians if they worked for Private Industry would have long been FIRED .
Again I have no problem for those in need ,But it is the Abusers that really get my cray .
I guess the words Self Preservation and Self Reliance mean Nothing to the Give Me Give Me Socialistic crowd , VERY SAD .
PS : I still have no interest in Investing in Detroit of South Chicago .
- Investor · West Bloomfield, MI · Member since 2009 · 358 posts · 306 votes11y
Originally posted by @Richard C.:
Can someone offer any information suggesting that Detroit's schools are turning around? Because without that, a few hipster millenials and a new hockey arena aren't going to matter.
I could see Detroit turning around, if they demolish roughly a third of the housing stock and turn around the schools. The first is underway. Is the second?
What major city is known for great public schools? Not NYC, not Chicago, not Philly, not LA, not DC, ... and not Detroit. People with kids who choose to live in major cities either seek out the handful of good public schools, enroll their kids in private or parochial schools, or homeschool. As important as schools are, the quality of the overall school district in major cities isn't the impediment to people moving in that some seem to think it is.
I know educated parents who live in Detroit by choice and their kids are getting a great education at one of good public schools or at a private or Catholic school. So that's not the obstacle. On the other hand, safety certainly is. As are the higher costs of home and auto insurance, property taxes and city income taxes.
There used to be a valid concern about where to shop in Detroit, but there are a lot more options now for groceries, clothes, restaurants, bars and entertainment than there were. Living in the city of Detroit can be a viable option for families who seek the bright city lights.
- Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
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Originally posted by @Tom A.:
Originally posted by @Richard C.:
Can someone offer any information suggesting that Detroit's schools are turning around? Because without that, a few hipster millenials and a new hockey arena aren't going to matter.
I could see Detroit turning around, if they demolish roughly a third of the housing stock and turn around the schools. The first is underway. Is the second?
What major city is known for great public schools? Not NYC, not Chicago, not Philly, not LA, not DC, ... and not Detroit. People with kids who choose to live in major cities either seek out the handful of good public schools, enroll their kids in private or parochial schools, or homeschool. As important as schools are, the quality of the overall school district in major cities isn't the impediment to people moving in that some seem to think it is.
I know educated parents who live in Detroit by choice and their kids are getting a great education at one of good public schools or at a private or Catholic school. So that's not the obstacle. On the other hand, safety certainly is. As are the higher costs of home and auto insurance, property taxes and city income taxes.
There used to be a valid concern about where to shop in Detroit, but there are a lot more options now for groceries, clothes, restaurants, bars and entertainment than there were. Living in the city of Detroit can be a viable option for families who seek the bright city lights.
There is a significant difference between "not great" and "third world." And some cities (boston for example) do have excellent schools.
I did some research. Looked at East English Village Prep, for example. Brand new school, significant investments made. By all accounts in the top third of Detroit's 18 public high schools. And dreadful result. Dreadful. Would be the worst school in my state by miles. College readiness score of 3.1. My rural NH district is at 29. EEVPA had zero kids pass an AP exam last year. Zero.
I guess you have answered my question for me. If, when asked for proof a city's schools are turning around, that city's boosters answer with, "Schools don't matter!", that does answer the question.
I'm not a Detroit naysayer. But the suggestion that middle class families care more about auto insurance rates than schools is ludicrous, and if that is all you've got, you should just pack it in.
- 11yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
and sad to say a number of them will lose all their money.. very risky place to invest IRA capital which should be invested in conservative areas or investments.
- 11yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Schools are one of the number determining factors in values of RE... just look at SF Bay Area ... Palo Alto had or has one of the best school systems in the state average purchase price 2 mil.. very few if any go to private schools.. Cupertino were I grew up same thing.
Go to the East bay to lesser ranked school systems with more issue and problems and RE drops in Half.
The only place I really see Poor schools and high priced RE is Hawaii
- Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 73 posts · 41 votes11y
@Bob Baldwin When comes to spitting out random facts that does not make a cohesive argument I think you take the cake. I am from what used to be called a hell zone. Harlem, New York. Heroin capital of America pretty much . Lower East Side , Spanish Harlem, Bed-Stuy Brooklyn, Fort Greene, Bushwick etc...all used to be the crazy. In fact NYC used to be the the worst from like 72' to 2000 approximately. Now what happened. There were people who willing to take risks, invest, see the future and turn things around (It was actually more than that but I don't have time to explain things here). If you need a reference please look at this Exhibit A: http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_88.htm#...
Now There have to be structural changes, Tax incentives, investment opportunities, social programs , jobs that keep up with inflation etc...that's just to name a few. I should know, I was there for some of the things that transpired. Detroit and Chicago have to go through that process. There is enough interest and potential money being invested that if it keeps pace it can turn around in a decade or so (once again to long of a conversation for me to get into now). This isn't any easy task but changing a city that's been through hell is never easy. Nevertheless there are people who are mentally and physically prepared to take on such risks. Also there are people willing to spend billion and millions. So this is a long process and a process you my friend are not willing to take cause you have not interest nor care about the Detroit citizens enough. As much as you may hide sir they're alot of racial undertones to your frivolous argument which neither serves the purpose of enlightening investor or giving insight. You're just bloviating nonsense and confusing the person and everyone else who is asking the question. Just like Investing in stocks everyone has a risk tolerance and you should choose accordingly. If someone asks me about investing in the countryside near Texas I'll refer them to a person who is enlightened about the matter. No need to go on a semi intelligent tirade which I deem disrespectful and incoherent sir. If you're going to make a point make it intelligently and respectfully. I for one will not take your disrespect lightly nor your disrespect towards fellow Biggerpocketers lightly either.
- Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
The other things that happened in NYC were a significant investment in magnet schools and a massive crackdown on crime. Neither has happened in Detroit.
- Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 73 posts · 41 votes11y
I live here and magnet schools were not the reason NYC rose from the ashes. They were here and that was after. Mayor Koch laid the blue print for alot of what we see today. Crime was already on it's way done when Guiliani took office. It was the combination of gentrification, massive real estate construction, wall street etc...
- Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 73 posts · 41 votes11y
Also New York city's tax base increased tremendously..(The I love NY campaign encouraged out of towners to come here).
- Contractor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 112 posts · 67 votes11y
Originally posted by @Bob Baldwin:
Originally posted by @James DeRoest:
Originally posted by @Gil Cortes:
Hi Everyone,
Just Curious is anyone picking up property in Detroit? if so why? if not why?
Why would you bother with Detroit when the Florida market is pretty much destroyed - and people actually want to be in Florida (even if it is just the crazies).
Or you could buy property in the cold north where no one wants to live in a Democrat hell hole.
Not sure I understand the comment " When the Florida Market is pretty much destroyed ?" Can you comment on that further please ?
Perhaps I am one of the Crazies LOL but I see the state of Fla ,Certain parts of Tex and Arizona as being " Gods Waiting Room " To me a majority of the Fla State economy is based on Retirement , Hospitalty , Tourism and Service industrys . Typically Low paying Jobs to begin with . I just don't see much Major Mfg being done there . Most of the Snowbirds generally are in the upper middle income are and have the means to do such . The Permanent retireres really don't have the means to improve there lots in life .
All the major cities Jax , Orlando , Tampa , Miami have there A , B, C, and worse neighborhoods Drugs , Single Parents ,Gangs the lists go on as to the reasons why .
For the investors I think there is still quite amount of oppurtunity there .but from what I have seen and heard it is hard knowing there are 10 other people trying to chase down the same deal .
For the Non Investor Young couple starting out in life sometimes it is tough to make ends meet .living there .
Old Farts like myself staring 70 in the eyeballs Don't really want to live in Cold North year round nor a Democratic Hell Hole . I tell this to my kids and Grandkids all the time . The America I grew up in is Not the America I know today .very sad .
I guess you can tell my conservative voting tendencies LOL When first got married we each worked 2-3 jobs typically $2-$3 per hour just to save up for a down payment on our first house . How many youths today do you know doing the same thing . Society now dictates we live in the Give Me Give Me and being Politically Correct at all times world .
So much for Social Evolution . I have no problem helping people with their NEEDs .I do have a problem helping them with their WANTs . Anybody on here get there NEW OBAMA PHONES lately ? You can tell we are in Deep Trouble when the "People " elected this WORTHLESS POS for a second term !! again very sad .
Well RUSH is over I think I will take a Break , Relax and watch FOX News . LOL !!
Where are the moderators? When did this forum become a bastion for ditto heads?
- Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 808 posts · 417 votes11y
Of course Detroit will eventually rise from the ashes at least to the point where its "ok" in some areas. Question is how long that will take and how do you manage in the meantime. The prices definitely make it attractive to the right people but most people investing off news articles are unlikely to be those people.
Don't see how the NYC comparison holds water. NYC is one of the top areas of the country for jobs and economic activity and has been for over 100 years. It also is right on the coast making it more of an ideal location. Detroit is city that was heavily leveraged to an industry that does not really exist in the same form anymore. Also, if you had invested in Harlem at the height of the NYC problems you would have had many many years of problems before things went really well.
- Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Mardochee Pierre:
I live here and magnet schools were not the reason NYC rose from the ashes. They were here and that was after. Mayor Koch laid the blue print for alot of what we see today. Crime was already on it's way done when Guiliani took office. It was the combination of gentrification, massive real estate construction, wall street etc...
You are arguing that gentrification and real estate construction are what caused NYC to "rise from the ashes." Most people, if you asked, "What does it mean for a city to rise from the ashes?" would say, "Gentrification and new real estate development." That is pretty much the definition of a circular argument.
In NYC, a number of factors combined. Two very especially important. First, they doubled the number of seats in magnet schools, offering parents at least the hope of a world-class education for their kids (btw, NYC's success was part of the justification offered for the new high schools in Detroit, so by arguing against it, you are arguing against your own side in the Detroit dispute.)
Second, virtually every serious commentator has recognized the central role of falling crime as a reason for the city's turnaround. No one seriously disputes that. And that has not happened in Detroit.
The biggest issue Detroit has to deal with is that the population has not just been falling for 5-6 years, it has been falling since the 1950's. You are talking about a city with a built housing stock sufficient to house 1.6 million people, with a current population of under 700k.
It is very, very likely that there will never be 1.6 million people living in Detroit again. It is virtually certain that there will not be 1.6 million people living there in the lifetime of anyone reading this. That is not me being mean to Detroit. Like I said, I am not a naysayer. But I am a realist.
I won't believe Detroit is truly turning around as long as its beautiful new high school is getting results that would get it shut down if it were in my state, and is having students shot in the parking lot (as happened in February.)
- Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 73 posts · 41 votes11y
The argument isn't against you Richard C....
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