Engineer · Carlsbad/San Diego · Member since 2014 · 285 posts · 97 votes
I see that Ohio is one of the very few places that still seems reasonable from cashflow point of view compared to crazy prices seen in rest of the country. What do the expert investors here think about Ohio? Any pros/cons of investing there?
I am particularly looking at Cincinnati, Toledo, Cleveland, Dayton, Columbus.
@Christopher Suh Cool, I imagine there are a lot of hit or miss hoods. It is definitely not like OC investing from what my brothers tell me. We went to Penn State so football games is their only exposure. And anything with grad students or employees at OSU must be pretty sweet I am thinking. But like any place, it will probably take a few months or so to unearth the great deals. Good luck!
Ohio markets are not as subject to the boom-and-bust real estate cycle as the coastal markets. Take a look at the Case-Shiller 20-city composite index compared to the Cleveland index and San Diego added for good measure:
Upside is limited, but downside is also. Most neighborhoods are stable, if boring. And people generally pay their rent, go to work, and repeat.
@Matt R.@Hersh M. I spent the entire day driving around the Columbus (inside the 270 belt) with an agent and have to agree with @Christian Carson and was able to see it first hand. I have a much better understanding of certain areas. Some streets from Google View do not justice when you're actually there in person. Luckily I found a local agent that grew up in the area and knows the ins and outs, There are definitely pockets of streets that are well maintained in a less desirable neighborhood that you may see online. Likewise goes for nice area's having less desirable streets.
Looks like a lot of money is going into the Columbus area and making many improvements. I've talked to a number of random strangers around the Columbus area and even having dinner with one, tonight, that I just met at a Panera near Grandview / German Village this morning, during breakfast.
Like Christian said, it does seem boring and steady eddy, but that's exactly what I'm looking for as a long term cash flow hold. There's opportunity I can see to flip and do some BRRRR's as well.
@Hersh M. I live in Cincinnati and cover all of OH (as well as various parts of the midwest) for my job. So I can tell you, to group Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland, Toledo and Dayton together is already a mistake. Their housing stock is different, the basis of their economies are different, and even their rental markets and submarkets are different. Yes, the cashflow here is REAL. But as a coastal investor - I can't stress enough, do your homework and build your team.
Typically my opinions are actually based on fact (at least the majority are and then I have some actual opinions that kind of serve as the icing on the cake when I make decisions on investing), but I will give it to you that I don't always include those 'facts' upfront-- mostly because before I spend a ton of time typing something out and arguing a point, I first want to make sure that's something anyone wants to hear....oftentimes in these forums the majority of responses or whatever are pretty short and sweet, and then if the poster or anyone else wants elaboration they ask (sometimes on the forum or sometimes via direct message). I don't have enough time in the day to type out every fact I know that is the basis of all of my responses. People just message me if they want to know more about why I said something and I respond (in detail) and it works out great. If someone wants more details in the forum itself based on something I said, just ask, and I'll gladly type it out. Easy peasy.
Now, back to Ohio. Columbus specifically. When I look at potential markets for investing, I look at way more than one stat about economic growth. So you tell me--the economic growth stat sounds good (although I'd want to confirm the source of that number), but what about, specifically: job growth, population growth, industry level, rental demand, vacancy rates, % renters vs. owner-occupants, price-to-rent ratios (although I don't typically worry about those in Ohio cities)...
Let me know the stats on those and I'll reconsider.
Regardless of where you invest, arguing that Ohio, and more specifically Columbus, is not a good rental market is pretty crazy. We might not be amazing for speculation but economy is very stable. With nearly 100,000 students in Columbus universities, several large HQ in area and a good tech industry I think we're on the right side of the growth curve.
@Joshua Springer. This is a link to our "Why Columbus?" tab on our website that touts the benefits of investing in Ohio, with numbers based on research. http://panzerarealty.com/why-columbus/. And cash flow is always a function of not just the economies of the city, but how savvy an investor is and how well they run their numbers. We're proud of Columbus for its investment potential and work with many investors who are doing it successfully here.
As an agent here locally in Columbus, I cannot find a city or area that has had such stable growth and continued major growth coming. We have several major hospital systems expanding, some of them being the best in the country. Ohio State continues to grow and thrive. Our suburban governments and bank accounts are almost all very stable and then some. Housing is very stable and climbing, with an enormous demand for both rental properties and traditonal buyers looking to purchase. We have a high demand with a low supply, driving prices up. Central Ohio have overseas companies moving operations an headquarters here, and others adding operations here. Most notably Amazon, which I'm sure we can all agree is a world-wide household name, and a very smart beast at that, is bringong major operations here. Three data-centers so far, and a major distribution center, all within the next 3 years. To the tune of 1.1 billion dollars, and that's just what is declared thus far. We can agree to disagree in this business, but my money in on Columbus as steady-eddy at a bare minimum, and I'm betting we are at the starting gate of a large 10 year upswing. Go Bucks!
We've been doing a lot of "boots on the ground" work for CA and other investors this past summer and now into fall. Happy to talk to those who have questions.
@Ali Boone hmmm, ok.... It is all good and confusing:) But yes it most certainly does not mean much if you never bought in any of those markets you like or think are stronger. Let us know when you do is cool. I like Hawaii but have not bought there yet either:)
This has gotten crazy. If you want to keep discussing, PM me. I've never withheld where I own properties....it's all over this site. You never asked where I own, you only asked if I have properties in the markets I talked about or in Ohio, with the point being--do I have to leg to stand on in my opinions. I then asked you if you own in Ohio because you have an opinion about it (ranked whatever number in economic growth). I vote don't accuse me of going solely off opinions if you have no concrete info either. Ping me if you want to keep on, but since neither of us own in Ohio, let's leave this chain be for now, shall we?
@Ali Boone You don't want to answer that's fine. I just thought it was only fair if you ask me something that you could answer same question in return...but it is no biggie.