Why dont real estate agents listen to the seller?

Why dont real estate agents listen to the seller?

Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 28 posts · 0 votes

So this is a long post but worth the read as it's educational, big time.
I am selling off some of my 2 family homes as you might know and my property managers who are also the agents for me wouldn't listen to me. I said to put into the listing AS-IS and deferred maintenance. So what do you think the moral of the story is? At the end I will tell you what I think it is.
Below is the email they sent to me.

Hazelwood Terrace

1. Asking price for the property is high for the overall condition of the property and expected more significant upgrades
2. The prospective buyer was concerned about future cost of roof replacement as the property disclosure indicated age of roof 12 years and it is a reroof.
3. The condition of the carpets are in poor condition and the buyer considered this an additional expense
4. The garage is fair to poor condition and the garage roof is at the end of its life
5. There are two orphaned oil tanks that buyer looked at as an expense for removal as well as a health and safety concern as well.
6. The front porch on the one side was a positive
7. The abandoned house that was next door was demolished. This was looked at as a plus.
8. 7 Hazelwood was in poor condition at the time of the showing and did not present well. I explained that this was a new tenant and we are in the process of having her complete an action plan to bring the apartment to a minimum standard.
9. The rear common hallway is in poor condition
10. The panel boxes are fuses and were a concern to the buyer as a future expense
11. 8 has vinyl replacement windows which was a positive for the buyer

Cedarwood Terrace
1. The over all interior was fair to poor.
2. Asking price for the property is high for the overall condition of the property and expected more significant upgrades
3. The prospective buyer was concerned about future cost of roof replacement. This roof is a reroof as well and is fair condition. Age of roof is unknown.
4. 17 has a long term tenant as has been in the unit since Adam has had ownership.
5. 17 - The unit is in poor condition and per the buyer would need a significant make ready.
6. The mechanicals are working but at end of life on both units.
7. The units both have had upgrades to the electrical panels at some point. That was positive.
8. 21 is a long term tenant. That was positive.
9. 21 did not show well due to the interior condition
10. 17 showed better and seemed to be better kept
11. 17 has multiple make shift cat houses on the front porch
12. There was no evidence of the cats living in the house. This didn't seem to be negative to the buyer
The biggest concern for this buyer was the asking price versus what has been upgraded on the properties. The buyer had an expectation that the units would be in more of an upgraded state based on asking price.

So the moral of the story is this and this is how I responded.

Alex-If you guys listened to me in the first place we would not waste the buyers time or your time to keep showing the properties. You could have called me with these comments instead of taking notes and spending 45 minutes typing them up to email them. These are things we already know. So now you probably wasted about 3 hours of time out of your day with a worthless buyer instead of focusing on selling these properties to someone that know they will have to put work into them.. And time is money in my book. Thats why I said to list them as AS-IS-TLC-NEED COO. Moral of this story is make sure your agents listen to you-the owner. Thoughts, comments, and shares are always welcome!

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Mindy JensenPro Member
BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
10y

In both instances, the buyer thinks the properties are overpriced and were surprised at the condition. As this is listed with an agent, I'm assuming it's on the MLS. If you don't have pictures, get them up. If you have them up, make sure they adequately convey the actual state of the house. I hate hate hate showing homes where the pictures don't match. Although it is fun to guess what angles they took the pictures from, and discuss what sort of wide-angle lens they used...

Have you read the listing comments? Does it state that the property is as-is? You don't say where the property is located - what's your market like?

Now here's the part that I have experience with - my sellers didn't listen to me when I gave them a recommended price based on comps. Did your agent give you a list of comparable properties recently sold, and make a recommendation for a list price based on those?

My research suggested a list price of $295-$305 for my most recent clients. They insisted on listing at $310, which wasn't so far off that I complied. Our first offer came in at $298 and we negotiated up to $302. 

If your agent didn't provide comps, you need a new agent. If your agent didn't put as-is in the listing, you need a new agent. If your agent didn't include photos that accurately represent the condition of the property, you need a new agent. Property Management and Listing Agents have two very different skill sets.

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  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    10y

    I'm not an agent, os this isn't coming from that bias, but my questions to you is "why don't sellers listen to their agents more?  Now in this case, if the answer is, "my agent doesn't think like I do, etc...), then the real question is this.

    "Why are you still using this (these) agents?

  • Investor · Cumming, GA · Member since 2015 · 79 posts · 72 votes
    10y

    Random thoughts.
    Yes, the agent should be listening to you but at the same time you guys should have had a discussion about price, expectations, comps etc... I would think.  - Not knowing much it sounds to me as if the agent is trying to say you have it overpriced but not being quite so blunt.

    Even though your property is "as is" you still are required (I think, could be wrong here) to make / fill out a sellers disclosure statement if you are listing it with an agent. Also, If all these repairs are needed or will soon be needed (especially the roof) are we certain it will appraise for what you would like to get out of them? 

    Perhaps the agent should focus on explaining to the buyer the return on investment opportunity, pointing out the long term tenant and with maybe some slight upgrades rents could potentially be raised. Not to mention the potential tax advantages of owning rental property. Of course they would want to direct that towards a CPA or some-such but there are advantages that probably should be emphasized more to the buyer(s) as he is an agent for you. 

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    10y

    Well clearly you should be using an agent who does retail sales and not property management. I think that is the main issue here.

  • Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 28 posts · 0 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

    I'm not an agent, os this isn't coming from that bias, but my questions to you is "why don't sellers listen to their agents more?  Now in this case, if the answer is, "my agent doesn't think like I do, etc...), then the real question is this.

    "Why are you still using this (these) agents?

     They listed these properties last week.  It was so much easier than hiring a separte company to do this.  they would have to take pics, pick up the keys all the time-call the tenants, etc.  Here it is much moreorganized as they know the tenants and the units.  But they are first property managers, then brokers

  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y

    In both instances, the buyer thinks the properties are overpriced and were surprised at the condition. As this is listed with an agent, I'm assuming it's on the MLS. If you don't have pictures, get them up. If you have them up, make sure they adequately convey the actual state of the house. I hate hate hate showing homes where the pictures don't match. Although it is fun to guess what angles they took the pictures from, and discuss what sort of wide-angle lens they used...

    Have you read the listing comments? Does it state that the property is as-is? You don't say where the property is located - what's your market like?

    Now here's the part that I have experience with - my sellers didn't listen to me when I gave them a recommended price based on comps. Did your agent give you a list of comparable properties recently sold, and make a recommendation for a list price based on those?

    My research suggested a list price of $295-$305 for my most recent clients. They insisted on listing at $310, which wasn't so far off that I complied. Our first offer came in at $298 and we negotiated up to $302. 

    If your agent didn't provide comps, you need a new agent. If your agent didn't put as-is in the listing, you need a new agent. If your agent didn't include photos that accurately represent the condition of the property, you need a new agent. Property Management and Listing Agents have two very different skill sets.

  • Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 28 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    we priced them based on comps.  But every investor buys differently.  we disclosed that they are crap!!! but make money

  • Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 28 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    we did all of that.  Pics are exactly like the house and most investors that buy in these areas know what they are getting.  

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    They are giving you feed back, maybe feed back you don't want to hear, but that doesn't mean they didn't listen to the terms you wanted to sell on.

  • Property Manager · Cumming, GA · Member since 2015 · 261 posts · 199 votes
    10y

    I think the agent listened to the seller and priced it too high. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 531 posts · 266 votes
    10y

    It sounds like this is feedback from the buyers, and the overall feedback is the properties are priced too high and I think its valuable for you the seller to know what the buyers concerns are. Your broker may think he/she is doing their job by providing this detailed feedback. 

    If you want to sell the properties as is, that is fine but the best way to do that is to price them a little below what the actual value is. Not knowing what the comps truly are, the market here is telling you that you are overpriced.  

    Also keep in mind that buyers may or may not be educated on the market. If they are just starting their search they are going to have unrealistic expectations and may not even be serious buyers. 

    I would make sure your listing includes the cap rate and NOI, thats what you want to focus on if the properties need work. I would also instruct your broker that you don't need the details, just have them update you with the # of showings each week and if there are any offers.

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Adam Glassman:
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

    I'm not an agent, os this isn't coming from that bias, but my questions to you is "why don't sellers listen to their agents more?  Now in this case, if the answer is, "my agent doesn't think like I do, etc...), then the real question is this.

    "Why are you still using this (these) agents?

     They listed these properties last week.  It was so much easier than hiring a separte company to do this.  they would have to take pics, pick up the keys all the time-call the tenants, etc.  Here it is much moreorganized as they know the tenants and the units.  But they are first property managers, then brokers

     Shortcuts. Save a dime, spend a dollar

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    10y

    Are you saying if your Rea would have listed the property as needing work, you would have gotten your price?

  • Rental Property Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 24 posts · 15 votes
    10y

    Mindy is spot on. There is nothing more frustrating as a buyer than the property you see on the MLS is not the same property you see in person. I always appreciate when sellers have as many pictures as possible and when they have 40yr old furnaces or garages that lean like they have been hit with an Abrams tank I know that going in and can run quick preliminary numbers to see if I am wasting my time or not. If you told your agent to state that the property needs TLC he/she should've listened. Some investors only invest in properties in turnkey condition while some focus on the "TLC" properties. Some investors do both. You have to market your property to the right audience or you're fighting an uphill battle. Have your agent get with the program, put up as many pictures as possible, consider a price adjustment and you'll attract the buyers you need, or if you get really irritated get your license and list it yourself.

  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y

    Your agents might very well have listened to you and put those things on the listing.

    That does not mean that buyers are going to read it or care. There are folks so in love with *the idea of* multi unit that they go look at every single multi unit in town regardless of what the mls says. And then, in some cases, give feedback to the agents that makes its way to you, just as above.

    This is why, for tenant occupied multi unit properties, some sellers (at least in my area) will not even bother letting buyers look at the property until it's in contract. 

    If you say "hey, it's crap... wanna look?" you will get people looking that don't want what you're selling. 

    If you say "Nope, stop right there, buddy-o. I've described the property accurately. Decide now. If you want to look, write an offer. If I accept, you can come verify that I've described it accurately." Boom, looky-loos and non-serious buyers won't even think about it. 

    Let's think of three similar real estate related "show me you're serious, then we will talk."

    - When you charge tenants that $25 application fee. It's probably more work to process that $25 than the $25 is actually worth (given the value of your time), but it keeps time wasters away, and THAT is where the value is.

    - When I require full documentation (bank statements, pay stubs, taxes, ALL of it) prior to being willing to pull credit and discuss rates/terms. I'll offer about 45 minutes of my time to anyone that walks in my door or calls, but after that it's time to cough up the paperwork I need to qualify you, or we both need to move along with our lives. I feel that I'm being fair here, it'll take less than 45 minutes to gather the paperwork if you are reasonably well organized. 

    - When Realtors don't want to show you more than one or zero homes prior to having that preapproval letter, or proof of cash, in your hand. Same as above, some realtors are generous like me and will show you one home without knowing if you're qualified. 

    Same thing here @Adam Glassman. You might miss out on an offer that would otherwise have been $5k higher, just like there may be great tenants out there that don't want to spend $25, just like there might be creditworthy folks out there that don't want to provide tax returns, just like that Realtor might lose a client for requiring a preapproval letter. But overall, how many HUNDREDS of hours is a realtor going to waste, if she's the only one in town willing to show homes to folks with no preapproval letter or cash? Probably a lot.

    In fact, she will probably waste SO MUCH time on the time wasters that she will not have time to treat her real clients well! 

    My $0.02.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    10y

    Adam why in the h&ll did the agents agree to list your properties if they had all of those condition issues??

    I get you want to sell AS-IS and say here it is in all it's glory with a load of problems. Those agents should have had the big ones to say " Mr. Seller what you are wanting is not realistic. You are wanting a premium price for properties with a laundry list of issues to deal with."

    Maybe if your market is a strong sellers market and no inventory is available you can go with that angle. Some agents just take listings and then try to justify to the seller why they should reduce the price down over time as the sellers are not willing or able to look at that angle.

    I personally believe that if I think something is overpriced and a seller still wants to go there to list at I wish them well and say try it somewhere else. 

    I am on the commercial side though. Sometimes sellers are looking for a 1 in 1,000 buyer that has money but knows nothing and will pay a premium for a lemon.

    I know nothing about your property or your market or the agents involved. It just seems you are frustrated at the agents because they can't find someone to buy your property with all of it's conditions issues at the price you want. I am an investor as well so I see both sides of it. 

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Beaufort, SC · Member since 2016 · 53 posts · 41 votes
    10y

    @Mindy Jensen    

    "Property Management and Listing Agents have two very different skill sets."

    What are those two different skills sets?  Do you believe an agent should stick to one or the other but not both? Do you believe it's possible to have to the skill set(s) to do both, well? 

    Do you believe it's all about specialization? Aka, the  "right person for the right job?"

    Or, do you think it could be more about the 80-20 rule? Meaning the pool of "top producer" type agents (the 20%) have the ability/skills/attention to detail, etc., to be effective in producing quality works in both fields?

  • Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 28 posts · 0 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Phil Earley:

    I think the agent listened to the seller and priced it too high. 

     no wer priced based on comps.  

  • Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 28 posts · 0 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Sarah Ziehr:

    It sounds like this is feedback from the buyers, and the overall feedback is the properties are priced too high and I think its valuable for you the seller to know what the buyers concerns are. Your broker may think he/she is doing their job by providing this detailed feedback. 

    If you want to sell the properties as is, that is fine but the best way to do that is to price them a little below what the actual value is. Not knowing what the comps truly are, the market here is telling you that you are overpriced.  

    Also keep in mind that buyers may or may not be educated on the market. If they are just starting their search they are going to have unrealistic expectations and may not even be serious buyers. 

    I would make sure your listing includes the cap rate and NOI, thats what you want to focus on if the properties need work. I would also instruct your broker that you don't need the details, just have them update you with the # of showings each week and if there are any offers.

     actually i think we are priced right. this is only 1 buyer and not only was i pointed out this about my agent time to type of email after a couple of showings"(want them to use their time more efficiently)  I am not always right but am a pretty active investor and flip, wholesale, buy and hold alot.

  • Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 28 posts · 0 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

    Are you saying if your Rea would have listed the property as needing work, you would have gotten your price?

     No.  Joe-I just listed these last week and this was only one buyer. they had a few showings and no one said anything else about price.  this post mmostly is about time management with this email taking him a while to type instead of just calling me. and also would waste time showing if you said deferred maintenence-AS-IS as that tells the buyers-investors it needs work and are not surprised.  sure it will limit my buyers pool...

  • Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 28 posts · 0 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Chris Mason:

    Your agents might very well have listened to you and put those things on the listing.

    That does not mean that buyers are going to read it or care. There are folks so in love with *the idea of* multi unit that they go look at every single multi unit in town regardless of what the mls says. And then, in some cases, give feedback to the agents that makes its way to you, just as above.

    This is why, for tenant occupied multi unit properties, some sellers (at least in my area) will not even bother letting buyers look at the property until it's in contract. 

    If you say "hey, it's crap... wanna look?" you will get people looking that don't want what you're selling. 

    If you say "Nope, stop right there, buddy-o. I've described the property accurately. Decide now. If you want to look, write an offer. If I accept, you can come verify that I've described it accurately." Boom, looky-loos and non-serious buyers won't even think about it. 

    Let's think of three similar real estate related "show me you're serious, then we will talk."

    - When you charge tenants that $25 application fee. It's probably more work to process that $25 than the $25 is actually worth (given the value of your time), but it keeps time wasters away, and THAT is where the value is.

    - When I require full documentation (bank statements, pay stubs, taxes, ALL of it) prior to being willing to pull credit and discuss rates/terms. I'll offer about 45 minutes of my time to anyone that walks in my door or calls, but after that it's time to cough up the paperwork I need to qualify you, or we both need to move along with our lives. I feel that I'm being fair here, it'll take less than 45 minutes to gather the paperwork if you are reasonably well organized. 

    - When Realtors don't want to show you more than one or zero homes prior to having that preapproval letter, or proof of cash, in your hand. Same as above, some realtors are generous like me and will show you one home without knowing if you're qualified. 

    Same thing here @Adam Glassman. You might miss out on an offer that would otherwise have been $5k higher, just like there may be great tenants out there that don't want to spend $25, just like there might be creditworthy folks out there that don't want to provide tax returns, just like that Realtor might lose a client for requiring a preapproval letter. But overall, how many HUNDREDS of hours is a realtor going to waste, if she's the only one in town willing to show homes to folks with no preapproval letter or cash? Probably a lot.

    In fact, she will probably waste SO MUCH time on the time wasters that she will not have time to treat her real clients well! 

    My $0.02.

     your a smart guy but that will never fly in the NYC area.  there are small 35-45k multis in not a very desireable area....

  • Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 28 posts · 0 votes
    10y

     your a smart guy but that will never fly in the NYC area.  there are small 35-45k multis in not a very desireable area....

  • Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 28 posts · 0 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Joel Owens:

    Adam why in the h&ll did the agents agree to list your properties if they had all of those condition issues??

    I get you want to sell AS-IS and say here it is in all it's glory with a load of problems. Those agents should have had the big ones to say " Mr. Seller what you are wanting is not realistic. You are wanting a premium price for properties with a laundry list of issues to deal with."

    Maybe if your market is a strong sellers market and no inventory is available you can go with that angle. Some agents just take listings and then try to justify to the seller why they should reduce the price down over time as the sellers are not willing or able to look at that angle.

    I personally believe that if I think something is overpriced and a seller still wants to go there to list at I wish them well and say try it somewhere else. 

    I am on the commercial side though. Sometimes sellers are looking for a 1 in 1,000 buyer that has money but knows nothing and will pay a premium for a lemon.

    I know nothing about your property or your market or the agents involved. It just seems you are frustrated at the agents because they can't find someone to buy your property with all of it's conditions issues at the price you want. I am an investor as well so I see both sides of it. 

     the price is within the comps.  we both agreed on the prices.  like i said above it was only 1 buyer and we just listed them 7 days ago. Just trying to ge the point across that they should have beetter time management and that is what i am about.  these agents are also my property managers and manage 300 units for investors so you would think there inside pool of buyers is good and know the houses i own pretty well.

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Adam Glassman:
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

    Are you saying if your Rea would have listed the property as needing work, you would have gotten your price?

     No.  Joe-I just listed these last week and this was only one buyer. they had a few showings and no one said anything else about price.  this post mmostly is about time management with this email taking him a while to type instead of just calling me. and also would waste time showing if you said deferred maintenence-AS-IS as that tells the buyers-investors it needs work and are not surprised.  sure it will limit my buyers pool...

     Actually, with most of your explanations, your post is about all of the things others and myself have brought up (including time) since all of them have an influence on what your core topic is.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    10y

    Adam they probably do have a good pool of buyers. These buyers are however likely highly seasoned and experienced.

    Less experienced buyers will think something is a good deal because of seeing 5 issues instead of 30 when it comes down to experience.

    If it gets fully exposed to the market and nobody bids then it is overpriced.

    You are saying this is one buyer saying all of these comments. If you start getting the same feedback from different buyers over and over you will have your answer.

    Most agents are YES people. Did you get an outside opinion such as a BPO before listing??

  • Visalia-Fresno, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 863 votes
    10y

    Yeah sounds like a bad agent...

    A good agent knows how to put the puzzle pieces together.  We are responsible for connecting the dots and pulling in the right buy or seller for the transaction...


    Franklin

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