realtor lets negotiation period expire

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realtor lets negotiation period expire

Leland S.
Developer · LA, Nashville TN · Member since 2015 · 295 posts · 75 votes

I had my house on Zillow as FSBO and this snakey agent had a buyer but all along the way would say disingenuous things to get the best deal and take advantage of me the whole way. We ended up under contract and during the inspection negotiations the buyer requested a bunch of silly things to do that I didn't want to pay for, some were a few knobs we tightened with a screw driver. So I declined and offered only to do them if we take the buy price up to the full value ask price I had come down by 10k from. I stayed firm in my response but the guy kept harassing me texting and emailing non stop telling me how the contract would be void and I'd lose my earnest money (not even 1%) etc etc. All the way up til midnight of the 3 day deadline where if negotiations couldn't resolve the contract becomes void. He emails me "5 minutes...", then exactly at midnight, past the 3 day mark he emails me a signed notice from the buyers from 10:41pm that night that they accept the house AS IS. This realtor tried to continue to strong arm me with threats of lawsuits and the contract expiring all the way until midnight. But he was 1 minute late on sending me the notice the buyers already agreed to an hour 20 min before then! I brought up to him that he was 1 minute late and according to the contract that means it is expired. He then sent off a firestorm of messages to me and a phone message agreeing it was expired, but he would send me an extension. I didn't sign the extension and now I signed releasing them from the contract.

I wonder if he broke any rules of conduct since he didn't take his buyer's agreement to save the house deal. He didn't represent their interests. I'm confused about his strange behavior, but I'm also glad to let him go and I hope his buyers find a way to let him go. Sad thing is that they really loved and wanted the house for a variety of reasons. I'm tempted to email the buyers and apologize on behalf of the realtor and make sure they understand he broke the contract, I'd imagine he's found a way to say that I broke it. 

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Charlie MacPherson
China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
9y

@Leland S.

These are the cases where FSBOs get hurt because they're so focused on not paying a commission.

If I were representing you, I'd never let a buyer's agent get away with strong-arming you.  In fact, in a seller's market like this, I'd be strong-arming HIM!  I'd do my best to stoke up a bidding war and let him tell me what concessions his side is prepared to make.

From what I'm reading it sounds like you were in a routine negotiation and you seem to have taken offense that the other side wanted a better deal.  

Please forgive me for saying so, but this is the mark of an untrained negotiator - a rookie.  In these cases, a trained negotiator will walk all over you.  

For example, I just sold a Boston-area home for another BP'er.  I laid out a plan to create a bidding war.  We had about 65 people through the open house and had 7 offers the next day.  I negotiated the high bidder up an additional $3,000 and got them to drop the home inspection.  We are at $49,600 over asking price.

Sure, he could have saved the $20,000+/- commission by going FSBO, but I think he's pretty darn happy that he had me on his side.

At this point, my recommendation would be for you to contact that agent and tell him that you will accept a full price offer, as-is - with no further concessions and get those terms in writing.

PS - even if the buyers later purchase your home without this agent, he will have a strong claim for commissions as he is what is called the "procuring cause" of the sale.

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  • James Mc Ree
    Rental Property Investor · Malvern, PA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 937 votes
    9y

    It looks like the agent was doing a bit of extreme negotiating.  Asking for lots of fixes is a common negotiating tactic.  The agent and his buyer may have agreed the agent should be aggressive to get the best deal.  Texting late into the night and threats are a little less ordinary, but you didn't write that you told him to contact you at other times.

    You had a deal and dropped it.  That's OK if you really didn't want the deal, but most sellers have a goal of just selling the house for their price.  It looks like you ultimately got your agreed-upon price and are just looking to get out of the deal  Realtors deal with this kind of behavior often.  You might want to reconsider representing yourself if you don't want to deal with this kind of behavior.  There is a reason realtors are paid a fee and this is only one of them.

    You should be careful in what you say to the buyers about the agent.  I recommend nothing.  Telling them their agent broke a contract is probably factually wrong, may open you to liability and does not benefit you at all.  Contacting the buyers to let them know you would love to sell your house to them if they have different representation might be a better idea but they might not be able to do so if they signed an agreement with that agent to represent them.

    2Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Leland S.  and for those reasons I don't engage in any text messaging with agents.. I let them know it right off the bat that I wont respond to them.. this teach's them not to text me any longer I hate text messages.

    also no need to contact buyer they I am sure realize their agents missed the contractual dead lines. 

    take away is sweet some times  

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  • Patrick Squires
    Investor · Oxford, MI · Member since 2016 · 110 posts · 41 votes
    9y
    What James Mc Ree said. You have another deal or something? I am reading this short story when reading your post. Realtor was aggressive and you prevailed... and now you want out?
    0Reply
  • Brian Pulaski
    Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Leland S. it sounds like you wanted this contract to expire/end? If so do you have more buyers lined up, or a better offer? Personally I wouldn't take any of this personally, it's business. I do what I have to do to get the house sold. Sounds like you had it sold, at asking, or at least as is, and have now backed out? Maybe I am missing the whole story, but wouldn't you rather sell a house than sit on it and have a deal fall through because you didn't look like the realtors tactics?

    1Reply
  • Wayne Brooks
    Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    9y

    ..........so because of this, you canceled the deal you wanted.

    1Reply
  • Lydia S.
    Real Estate Agent · Albuquerque, NM · Member since 2015 · 542 posts · 193 votes
    9y

    Since not all clocks are synchronized, I personally don't think 1 minute would be a deal-breaker for me, especially since it looks like you succeeded at achieving a sale to these buyers who really wanted your house.

    0Reply
  • Leland S.
    OP
    Developer · LA, Nashville TN · Member since 2015 · 295 posts · 75 votes
    9y

    No, the deal was negotiated down from ask by 10k, and the commissions was way too high for fsbo. So yes I would prefer a new contract with representation, which I have now. I planned to contact the buyers only to let them know they can make another offer and not mention anything about the realtor. I believe the realtor will block any deals with me out of spite at this point, which isn't in the best interest of the buyers who definitely want the place. 

    0Reply
  • Leland S.
    OP
    Developer · LA, Nashville TN · Member since 2015 · 295 posts · 75 votes
    9y

    @Lydia S. - yes, google servers are definitely GPS synchronized. It's the time that it hits their servers. 

    0Reply
  • Michael H.
    Rock Hill, SC · Member since 2015 · 104 posts · 209 votes
    9y

    Is this house in Cali? If so, isn't 10k like 100 bucks in other parts of the country? It seems like you got what you wanted so I'm not sure why you canceled other than being upset with the agent since they agreed to buy it "as is." If it were me, I would just sell it and move on.

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Leland S.:

    No, the deal was negotiated down from ask by 10k, and the commissions was way too high for fsbo. So yes I would prefer a new contract with representation, which I have now. I planned to contact the buyers only to let them know they can make another offer and not mention anything about the realtor. I believe the realtor will block any deals with me out of spite at this point, which isn't in the best interest of the buyers who definitely want the place. 

     If you contact the previous buyer it is more than likely you will be dealing with the same agent since most buyer agent  contracts have a 60-120 day  window on properties the agent was party to.  I still do not know why you cancelled the contract for such a small amount  

    1Reply
  • Leland S.
    OP
    Developer · LA, Nashville TN · Member since 2015 · 295 posts · 75 votes
    9y

    Place is in TN.

    0Reply
  • Charlie MacPherson
    China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    @Leland S.

    These are the cases where FSBOs get hurt because they're so focused on not paying a commission.

    If I were representing you, I'd never let a buyer's agent get away with strong-arming you.  In fact, in a seller's market like this, I'd be strong-arming HIM!  I'd do my best to stoke up a bidding war and let him tell me what concessions his side is prepared to make.

    From what I'm reading it sounds like you were in a routine negotiation and you seem to have taken offense that the other side wanted a better deal.  

    Please forgive me for saying so, but this is the mark of an untrained negotiator - a rookie.  In these cases, a trained negotiator will walk all over you.  

    For example, I just sold a Boston-area home for another BP'er.  I laid out a plan to create a bidding war.  We had about 65 people through the open house and had 7 offers the next day.  I negotiated the high bidder up an additional $3,000 and got them to drop the home inspection.  We are at $49,600 over asking price.

    Sure, he could have saved the $20,000+/- commission by going FSBO, but I think he's pretty darn happy that he had me on his side.

    At this point, my recommendation would be for you to contact that agent and tell him that you will accept a full price offer, as-is - with no further concessions and get those terms in writing.

    PS - even if the buyers later purchase your home without this agent, he will have a strong claim for commissions as he is what is called the "procuring cause" of the sale.

    5Reply
  • Leland S.
    OP
    Developer · LA, Nashville TN · Member since 2015 · 295 posts · 75 votes
    9y

    @Charlie MacPherson Agree that a good realtor can do this. I will be listing with a realtor, if they don't come back to buy, but I'm never sure how good the realtor will be at getting deals like that and bidding wars. 

    I like your advice better, but I did already go back to the buyer and state I'd be willing to do a full price offer, fixing the items they requested already, but with reduced buyer realtor commission of 2%, and we can still show the house until financing is approved.

    0Reply
  • Charlie MacPherson
    China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    @Leland S. Here's a good technique to turn the screws on the other side.  

    Find a good agent and list the property NOW.  You can most likely do a listing with a "named exclusion", meaning that if this person buys, no commission is due.

    Let the other side see that it's now on the market and start to sweat.

    In fact, you might even withdraw your offer before they have a chance to accept and tell them that you think you'll do better on the open market with such a nice listing.  

    Conversely, if this buyer's agent is worth his salt, he'll write the offer with his full commission.  If he caves in to the reduced commission, you'll know he's all bluster and is a pushover.

    If he doesn't cave in, you can counter with a higher price to cover the cost of the extra commission.

    (and this, boys and girls, is why it's better to list with a strong agent than to FSBO!)

    1Reply
  • Leland S.
    OP
    Developer · LA, Nashville TN · Member since 2015 · 295 posts · 75 votes
    9y

    @Charlie MacPherson 

    Great advice, thanks. Would be nice to have a shark like you in my area. I'm going with whoever I can find. 

    0Reply
  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Leland S.:

    @Charlie MacPherson Agree that a good realtor can do this. I will be listing with a realtor, if they don't come back to buy, but I'm never sure how good the realtor will be at getting deals like that and bidding wars. 

    I like your advice better, but I did already go back to the buyer and state I'd be willing to do a full price offer, fixing the items they requested already, but with reduced buyer realtor commission of 2%, and we can still show the house until financing is approved.

     One thing I would check is if it is legal in your state to negotiate the commission amount as part of the sales contract. In Maryland and DC this is illegal. 

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  • Leland S.
    OP
    Developer · LA, Nashville TN · Member since 2015 · 295 posts · 75 votes
    9y

    @Russell Brazil Absolutely.. I have many realtors willing to sell at 1.5% commission right now. Also I was told I can list a buyers agent commission whatever I want, even on the MLS, even $1. I think that's bogus that you "can't" negotiate commission in those states. I would sell FSBO and make my own rules there, since when can the government demand you pay a certain profit value for selling something you own? Ludicrous!

    0Reply
  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Leland S.:

    @Russell Brazil Absolutely.. I have many realtors willing to sell at 1.5% commission right now. Also I was told I can list a buyers agent commission whatever I want, even on the MLS, even $1. I think that's bogus that you "can't" negotiate commission in those states. I would sell FSBO and make my own rules there, since when can the government demand you pay a certain profit value for selling something you own? Ludicrous!

     Commissions are absolutely negotiable....they are not negotiable as part of a sales contract. The sales contract is between buyer and seller, and the agent is not a party to that. So it is illegal to negotiate the commission as part of the sales contract since the agent is not a party to the contract.

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  • Leland S.
    OP
    Developer · LA, Nashville TN · Member since 2015 · 295 posts · 75 votes
    9y

    @Russell Brazil OK I didn't understand the difference. I assumed sales contract was that drawn up by the realtor or by real estate attorney when selling the house - eg the buyers realtors get's X dollars or X % commission. I'm not sure which contract you are referring.

    0Reply
  • Charlie MacPherson
    China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    @Russell Brazil @Leland S. State laws may vary, but at this point in his negotiation the property isn't listed on MLS.

    Russell Brazil is an authority in MD law - I'm not. I do know that here in MA, once a property is listed on MLS, both sides are obliged to accept whatever commission is offered in the listing - but that's MLS rules, not state law.

    My initial suggestion was that Leland actually writes an offer to the buyer with his preferred terms.  Yes, I know that's unorthodox, but I don't know of a reason that it would be illegal.  

    Barring some unusual local laws prohibiting it, the three elements required to form a contract would all be there - offer, acceptance and consideration.

    Still, I think his best option is to get a strong agent and list it.  Then he won't be getting pushed around by a buyer's agent.  He'll have proper representation, which should pay good dividends.

    0Reply
  • Brian Pulaski
    Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Leland S. what did you offer as the commission for the buyers agent? I sell FSBO and have always offered 2.5% and there has never been a negotiation over this, or any realtor taking issue with it.

    0Reply
  • Dan Bernstein
    Real Estate Agent · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2014 · 184 posts · 78 votes
    9y

    @Leland S., I think you are looking at this whole commission thing wrong.  You are paying a commission to a buyer's agent to incentivize the agent to bring the buyer and close the transaction.  Without skin in the game, why would an agent work hard to close a deal where he/she is not getting paid.  Further, most states require an agreement where a buyer represented by an agent has to pay X% commission.  From the buyer's perspective, that commission has to be paid and is factored into the bottom line of the transaction.  

    Also, all of the data I've seen suggests that FSBO's sell for way less on average than traditional sales once the sales price exceeds 150-200K.

    2Reply
  • Rhonda Rowland
    Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 10 votes
    9y

    Leland,

    If you were offered less money to do the same job by one company, and more to do your job by a second company, why would you go with the 1st?  As an agent, i would not accept less than 2.5% commission on a sale.  There are some clients that you work with for long periods of time before finding the house they love.  Working weekends, rain or shine, etc and sometimes putting up with lots of drama.  When a seller offers 1 or 2%, that's very insulting and titally negates my years of experience, not to mention qualifying that buyer to make sure that your deal closes.  Newer or part time agents may accept this but good luck with closing with those.  You really do get what you pay for.

    2Reply
  • Kevin Haskins
    Real Estate Investor · Monroe, WA · Member since 2015 · 15 posts · 22 votes
    9y

      I think the comment of NOT texting is a wise one.   There are just too many ways that text can be twisted.    I'd keep all correspondence verbal and/or email with very clear, concise and well-thought out content.    Give a clear sequence of steps with time limits for response.   

    And for me personally, once something has started to go sideways, I get out quick.    I've had too many experiences where I've ridden that horse too long.    That involves drama, strange actors, or just bad situations in general.   I'd also not encourage being the Realator police.  Every time I've been involved in drama it has cost me.      

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  • Leland S.
    OP
    Developer · LA, Nashville TN · Member since 2015 · 295 posts · 75 votes
    9y

    @Kevin Haskins Agree with you, that was my main rationale for exiting when I had the opportunity. He started getting really strange with me and I think straddling the ethical boundaries in order to get what he wanted. Every time he communicated he was always trying to manipulate me somehow. There's no reason for this, should be able to just present terms and negotiate professionally and not have to control everything.

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