IS this Holton-Wise stuff for real?

Rental Property Investor · Escondido, CA · Member since 2017 · 679 posts · 550 votes

Since I started some more serious research ahead of my next investment I get these emails and wonder if anybody ever did these and if they are for real?

https://mailchi.mp/holtonwise/hx3kuvml2d-627617?e=...

https://mailchi.mp/holtonwise/hx3kuvml2d-627605?e=...

https://mailchi.mp/holtonwise/hx3kuvml2d-627597?e=... (seriously?)

Axel

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James Wise

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes

Normally when there is a thread about my own company I try to stay out of it as to allow folks the freedom to speak their mind without me butting in to bother them &/or sway the narrative. However I need to pop in to clear a few things up here then I will quickly bow out of this thread after pointing out a few pertinent facts.

1. The question about Holton-Wise being "real" or not is relatively comical when you look at our offices standing as the number 1 seller of investment property in the greater Cleveland, Ohio area. But please, do not take my word for it. Check out the statistics right from the MLS.

2. The implication that we were scamming folks based upon the O.P. realizing that the house needed a septic tank removed. LOL I would sure hope you realized the house needed the septic tank removed considering the ENTIRE point of the ad was that the house was priced this way because it needed to be addressed. A major clue to this fact was the ad including a 7 min video that is entirely dedicated to me going over the septic tank situation.

The name of the video is How to Remove a Septic System like the one at this Cleveland Investment Property; 2133 Reyburn. The thumbnail of the video is below. It cannot be made more clear than this lol.

If anyone wants to see the video it is posted all over the marketplace. I will not post it here as it is an advertisement for that property which is, of course, prohibited on BP anywhere except the marketplace.

3. Last thing I wanted to touch on before I pop outta here & leave you folks to it is our F rating on the BBB. Our rating on that website is an absolute joke. If you look at it the sample size is tiny. There are 11 reviews & 7 of them are positive. Our positive reviews more than double our negative reviews.

The real reason we have an F is we do not pay the BBB like other businesses do. It's well known that your rating is swayed by paying the accreditation fee to the BBB. They are essentially running a racket. But again, no need to take my word for it. Simply watch the story 20/20 did on them.

On top of the fact that the BBB is running a shakedown operation this is property management business folks. We run a $50M+ portfolio. Take a look at our google page. Currently we have 93 reviews. Average score is 3.2. The entire thing is filled with tons of disgruntled tenants as well as happy investors. That's the property management business.

If you think people aren't leaving you bad reviews after you evict them or tell them no you are gonna be in for a wild ride when it comes to property management. The many bad reviews we have on that google page (& boy there are quite a few of them) are not necessarily from rational people. This business can be a battle. If you doubt what I am saying go ahead & hop on over to these tenant from hell threads below & tell me how you reason with those types of people. My staff is in the trenches everyday & I would defend everyone of those bad reviews.

TENANTS FROM HELL #2 Tubs & Showers from hell. PICS INCLUDED!

TENANTS FROM HELL #1 Deplorable living conditions. PICS INCLUDED!

Here are all the Holton-Wise Google Reviews. The good & the bad.

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Account Closed
Rental Property Investor · Brooke Park Drive · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
8y
If they are not for real, what is the alternative?
2 Reply
Caleb Heimsoth
Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
8y
Dr. Axel Meierhoefer what do you mean by “are they real?” If you are simply asking if they’re a real company then the answer is yes. One of their owners, James Wise is very active here on BP. You probably signed up for one of their services which then probably put you on the mailing list. If you’re doing real estate business in Cleveland you’re probably going to interact with them at some point as they sell a lot of property there and manage a lot more as well.
0 Reply
Matt Motil
Rental Property Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 880 votes
8y
5 Reply
Bob CollettPro Member
Property Manager · Brecksville, OH · Member since 2014 · 486 posts · 464 votes
8y
Thank you for the mention. Property Management is certainly a challenge at times... but we do try to keep our client’s interest top of mind.
4 Reply
Axel MeierhoeferPro Member
OP
Rental Property Investor · Escondido, CA · Member since 2017 · 679 posts · 550 votes
8y
@Account Closed Thanks Matt
0 Reply
Axel MeierhoeferPro Member
OP
Rental Property Investor · Escondido, CA · Member since 2017 · 679 posts · 550 votes
8y
@Bob Collett Hi Bob, do you also cover Toledo area?
1 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
8y
Dr. the house that needs the septic .. for instance is probably not habitable.. and septics depending on the type of system etc.. can cost 20 to 50k to put in.. just saying thats why the price is probably where its at.. looks like a nice deal though but i dont know where there are that steep of mountians in N OHIO.
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1 Reply
Bob CollettPro Member
Property Manager · Brecksville, OH · Member since 2014 · 486 posts · 464 votes
8y
@Axel Meierhoefer ... sorry, do not do Toledo. I feel I need to be no more than 30 minutes (preferably 15) from the property to provide a good level of service.
2 Reply
Axel MeierhoeferPro Member
OP
Rental Property Investor · Escondido, CA · Member since 2017 · 679 posts · 550 votes
8y
@Bob Collett Thanks Bob. I was just asking because I have a good friend living in Toledo who could help to put eyes on properties if I were to decide to do any deals in that area. Wishing you the best in your area.
0 Reply
Axel MeierhoeferPro Member
OP
Rental Property Investor · Escondido, CA · Member since 2017 · 679 posts · 550 votes
8y
@Jay Hinrichs Yep, Jay, that's exactly what I thought. Wont be wasting more time with that and unsubscribe. Still not sure how I even got on their list. BBB has them as "F"
0 Reply
Brian Pulaski
Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
I ended up in the Hilton Wise email list as well. Not my market so I Unsubscribed, but also not sure how I ended up on it to begin with!
0 Reply
Axel MeierhoeferPro Member
OP
Rental Property Investor · Escondido, CA · Member since 2017 · 679 posts · 550 votes
8y
@Brian Pulaski Yep, same here. Maybe getting other people's contact data is their secret power - rather than real estate - ...just wondering :)
0 Reply
Tommy Spijkers
Dayton, OH · Member since 2017 · 74 posts · 49 votes
8y
Dr. Axel Meierhoefer the BBB rating doesn’t mean too much. As a property management company this rating can easily be from some evicted non paying former tenants who instead of looking for a job spend their time leaving negative reviews. I have seen some videos on their YouTube where they mention the negatives of properties they sell. The septic mentioned earlier was in one of them, where they explained the property was cheap because there would likely by high cost to fix it. They mentioned multiple times it should not be something for a new investor to look into, but could be a profitable deal for more seasoned investors. I think they do take email addresses posted anywhere on BP and add them to their list, which is probably how you all got on their list. I got them too. Too many emails for my taste, so I also unsubscribed.
3 Reply
Axel MeierhoeferPro Member
OP
Rental Property Investor · Escondido, CA · Member since 2017 · 679 posts · 550 votes
8y
@Tommy Spijkers
Thanks Tommy. I hear you. Still I have the impression a novice could get blinded by the prices and then get burned if the place is not getting Permit to occupy or anything like that.
0 Reply
James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
8y
Normally when there is a thread about my own company I try to stay out of it as to allow folks the freedom to speak their mind without me butting in to bother them &/or sway the narrative. However I need to pop in to clear a few things up here then I will quickly bow out of this thread after pointing out a few pertinent facts.
1. The question about Holton-Wise being "real" or not is relatively comical when you look at our offices standing as the number 1 seller of investment property in the greater Cleveland, Ohio area. But please, do not take my word for it. Check out the statistics right from the MLS.
2. The implication that we were scamming folks based upon the O.P. realizing that the house needed a septic tank removed. LOL I would sure hope you realized the house needed the septic tank removed considering the ENTIRE point of the ad was that the house was priced this way because it needed to be addressed. A major clue to this fact was the ad including a 7 min video that is entirely dedicated to me going over the septic tank situation.
The name of the video is How to Remove a Septic System like the one at this Cleveland Investment Property; 2133 Reyburn. The thumbnail of the video is below. It cannot be made more clear than this lol.
If anyone wants to see the video it is posted all over the marketplace. I will not post it here as it is an advertisement for that property which is, of course, prohibited on BP anywhere except the marketplace.
3. Last thing I wanted to touch on before I pop outta here & leave you folks to it is our F rating on the BBB. Our rating on that website is an absolute joke. If you look at it the sample size is tiny. There are 11 reviews & 7 of them are positive. Our positive reviews more than double our negative reviews.
The real reason we have an F is we do not pay the BBB like other businesses do. It's well known that your rating is swayed by paying the accreditation fee to the BBB. They are essentially running a racket. But again, no need to take my word for it. Simply watch the story 20/20 did on them.
On top of the fact that the BBB is running a shakedown operation this is property management business folks. We run a $50M+ portfolio. Take a look at our google page. Currently we have 93 reviews. Average score is 3.2. The entire thing is filled with tons of disgruntled tenants as well as happy investors. That's the property management business.
If you think people aren't leaving you bad reviews after you evict them or tell them no you are gonna be in for a wild ride when it comes to property management. The many bad reviews we have on that google page (& boy there are quite a few of them) are not necessarily from rational people. This business can be a battle. If you doubt what I am saying go ahead & hop on over to these tenant from hell threads below & tell me how you reason with those types of people. My staff is in the trenches everyday & I would defend everyone of those bad reviews.
TENANTS FROM HELL #2 Tubs & Showers from hell. PICS INCLUDED!
TENANTS FROM HELL #1 Deplorable living conditions. PICS INCLUDED!
Here are all the Holton-Wise Google Reviews. The good & the bad.
15 Reply
James Galla
Attorney · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 535 posts · 389 votes
8y
@Axel Meierhoefer , welcome to Ohio, where properties are cheap. Holton Wise is definitely real, and when I buy near Cleveland, it'll likely be from Holton Wise. I'm not affiliated with Holton Wise, but I'd suggest signing up for their email subscription, and that'll keep you up-to-date with the various properties being listed in the area. They also have a very nice article on the Cleveland market that I'd check out.
https://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/4704/42419-cleveland-neighborhood-grades
2 Reply
Al D.
Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2017 · 303 posts · 327 votes
8y
It seems that people here are curious how HW gets our email addresses. So was I. So, on September 16, 2017, I replied to one of their marketing emails: “Hi, guys. First of all, I like your inventory and numbers. But I am curious how you got my email address. I began to receive your emails just this week, but I do not remember contacting you. I see that James is on BiggerPockets, and we have been in at least one same thread. If I were to ever buy from you, it would be nice to know if we have friends in common (to use Facebook terminology) to get more useful info. If this is just BP marketing at work, I understand - I use this email address there, and am fairly new there. Again, I am just curious - not angry or anything. Thank you, (Al)” To date, I have received no reply to the above. I cannot speak to their quality, etc. I’ve never done business with them. I did reach out directly to James a couple of months ago about potentially listing a local property of mine. The response, while prompt, left me “underwhelmed:” I was in no hurry, and the property is cash flowing just fine even as I self-manage it. My desire was to find out if it was time to sell, (for a 1031,) as the suburban town in which it is located has been seeing offers above asking for a while, and I received an unsolicited offer from a local investor who’s worked on the property. The email exchange left me wondering whether I’d be properly represented by HW as a seller, or they’d likely be acting as a dual broker (and, judging by the price James was suggesting: perhaps - also - a wholesaler.) Again, that is just a feeling I was left with - we did not contract. I would never say that selling my property at “market” would be easy, but I guess I just always want to be sure that my agent would have my best interest (fiduciary) in mind, as is actually required. I didn’t get that feeling for sure. Perhaps James thought I was in a hurry to sell - I did not say that; he did not ask. He did say, “Oh yea I can sell that no problem. $100k” The unsolicited offer I got was for $120k. But perhaps the local investor was wrong, and James made the right call. We will never know. But I know not to contact HW again to be my listing agent - unless I should find myself desperate. Judging by this post, their marketing is firing on all cylinders - I was right to be curious how I got on their list - so, that could mean a quick sale. And that’s how you get to $50MM. Ok, so perhaps representing sellers who are not in distress may not be HW’s forte. Fine. I imagine that most people on this forum are looking to buy properties - HW may be as good a seller as they come in their area; I don’t know. I have not listed that property with anyone. I did, however, a few days later, click to remove myself from further emails from HW - they are honoring that. One other thing I did: I no longer allow even my contacts to see my email address.
2 Reply
Alex Corral
Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 142 posts · 104 votes
8y
@Axel Meierhoefer I've had the opportunity to ask for help/chat with James Wise a few times. He has always been very helpful & on the ball! As busy as this dude is, I was impressed on how fast he got back to me with lots of helpful information on a property I was looking to buy. I think his marketing is very informative & he always promotes transparency. When I find the property I want in the Cleveland area, I plan on using @James Wise. As for the BBB, I would not take their rating into consideration at all. They are like the PETA of the business world.
4 Reply
Axel MeierhoeferPro Member
OP
Rental Property Investor · Escondido, CA · Member since 2017 · 679 posts · 550 votes
8y
Guys, I asked for input and the opinion of members of the BP community. Thanks to everybody who posted. Deciding to invest with any company is the decision of each investor individually.
For me, the excuse that people leave bad reviews when they are unhappy is a certain sign - makes me wonder why there are tons of disgruntled customers - to use the owners words.
BBB might not be the best barometer, but when you read further into their rating part of the negative score, you find it is (at least partially) based on the fact that a company that received negative reviews does or does not respond to those reviews. One does not need to be a member to respond. It's a matter of care - or lack thereof.
I made up my mind but everybody can make their own decision.
Finally, and that is something that I always found perplexing. Why do people think that volume is ever a sign of quality? I could list a ton of examples but the one that I recall from the time my grandpa taught me has to do with flies and manure.
Thanks for everybody posting here to help me make up my mind.
3 Reply
Matt Motil
Rental Property Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 880 votes
8y
Grabbing email addresses and signing people up to a list is illegal. If that happens, report it.
1 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
8y
not sure why this post kind of went a little wonky.. Holton wise is simply a real estate brokerage that specializes in working with investors.. at least that's my understanding of what they do.
so they send out their listings like C 21 or Re max does.. nothing weird or nefarious about this.
we started in that market about 8 months ago.. I talked to Jim.. he was a little busy for our volume so we are using a different brokerage that is servicing our needs.. we are not huge.. only 4 to 6 properties a month.. and my guys either keep them or have their own sales channels through some of the other turn key marketing companies along with the local MLS etc.
BBB for anyone in the Management business is worthless and pretty much anyone in the sales business is going to have a rough go with that one.. that's the reason I never joined in all my years.. waste of time and money.
at the end of the day for whatever reasons buyers have made this soooo much more complicated than it really is.
you simply look at houses anyway you can find them.. be them MLS feeds.. off market companies that don't put stuff on MLS.. turn key companies that don't list.. you check it all out due diligence is the same for all of this.. it boils down to home inspection and appraisal if your getting bank financing.. then hooking up with a very good PM.. end of the day PM is the most critical component.. there are a few folks our there that have put up some pretty horrific type transactions that's morris / oceanpointe based on BP feedback so make sure you don't fall into that trap.
Other wise this should be no different than running to your local broker and buying any other property 5 minutes from where you live..
I had never been to Cleveland and we will do well 60 to 80 props first year... no big mystery.. and 80% is right off of MLS I would imagine we have bought a few Holton wise listings as well.. being they are a big listing agent there.
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
8 Reply
Ola Dantis
Multifamily Syndicator · Houston, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
8y
@Axel Meierhoefer Continue to do more research, you can't never over-vet companies and their respective owners.
@Brian Pulaski I, too, started receiving emails for content I never subscribed for, so I simply unsubscribed. We, as BP members, should know not too just take email addresses from signatures and add to MailChimp campaigns (not cool).
1 Reply
David TerbeekPro Member
Property Manager · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 260 posts · 162 votes
8y
The Bigger Pockets community is rich with a diversity of ideas and opinions. Always a pleasure to see our name pop up from time to time, thanks @Matt Motil
216-926-2900
2 Reply
Matt Motil
Rental Property Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 880 votes
8y
Originally posted by @David Terbeek:

The Bigger Pockets community is rich with a diversity of ideas and opinions. Always a pleasure to see our name pop up from time to time, thanks @Matt Motil
No problem! You guys do a good job! I refer lots of my clients your way!
0 Reply
Spencer Gray
Syndication Expert and Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2016 · 591 posts · 808 votes
8y
I find it a little ironic that one of the most discussed strategies on BP to find deals is to put together (even purchase) a mailing list of owners and conduct a direct marketing campaign via mail. How is that any different from what Holton-Wise is doing via email? Just unsubscribe if you aren't interested in their deals.
I read the emails linked and while I probably wouldn't consider buying any of them (I'm also not big on Cleveland but it's just not my market) they seemed on par with other wholesalers/brokers descriptions.
I haven't read of anyone on this thread having a BAD experience, just some non prompt responses. Know what your getting into and learn to swim with the sharks! Not doing business with someone because they sent you an email or a few negative online reviews (especially when they are a big player in a market) seems pretty short sighted.

I also have to say that even as annoying as it is, direct email marketing is one of the best tools for any marketer and I've found the absolute best ROI that also gives you tons of data (who opened the email, how long did they look at it, did they click on links, did forward it?) to then create more targeted lists. This is practiced by companies of all shapes sizes including banks, Fortune 100 companies, etc,
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