Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2014 · 153 posts · 126 votes
Pic #1: This is the water I found in one of my rentals that’s about 5’ below grade. This came AFTER we had finished doing a foundation waterproofing around the perimeter of the house! - How could this happen!?
I had to do some brainstorming . I was actually excited this happened!(Find something good about your problem & get excited ). I was about to find the solution to a problem I knew many investors and homeowner HATED dealing with when they encountered it.
Tip: Once you figure out the solution to a problem you now are able to solve it at lower cost in less time.
Pic #2: The solution was to install an interior French drain.This captures the water before it rises to floor level and channels it back out of the home. Note: holes on pipes go facing down not up. Just had them this way to show holes in picture
Pic #3: The room is now dry and ready to be finished & rented.
I'm a newbie and I'm not sure if I found this more comical or educational. I saw the topic and decided to read after my brothers apartment just flooded. @Jorge P. just because you've already experienced success to a certain degree and used professionals that were "licensed and insured" does not make you all knowing on the topic.
Not sure about you but my "good vibes only" attitude would have me remaining humble and not throwing jabs at the people trying to give decent advice. "you learn something every day" is a saying that applies to absolutely everyone in this world and while you may think you're right in your approach to fix your problem, did you stop to think for one second that maybe by slim chance you may have done it incorrectly?
I'm not saying you did it wrong but don't go around like "I'm right you're wrong" just because you THINK you did it right. consider the different points of view, debate, and PROVE that you're right if you want to act like that.
BiggerPockets forums are a meant to be a place for learning and sharing, not whatever this thread turned into. @Joe Splitrock@Matthew Paul Thanks for trying to help someone that doesn't want any helping.
Whats not shown in the pictures , is adding a sump pump or attaching to the existing one , if its a block wall , you drill holes in the block to let water out and into the pipe , and the pipe is then covered with gravel .
@Matthew McKinney The interior French Drain cost me $1,200 dollars with labor & materials. The exterior foundation waterproofing cost me $6,500 (I bought the the materials). I think i got a good deal given I had estimates in the $20k- $40k range.
@Matthew Paul We were lucky to find the sewage line coming into this room when we broke the cement. This allowed us to connect the slopped French drain pipes directly into it. Allowing us not to use a pump.
@Nik Moushon Your going to Laugh - the water was coming from the garage drain which was connected to the sewage line running inside and underneath the house. The garage drain was channeling the water from gutters right into the house via sewage line inside the room. - We canceled the garage drain & installed a new line out to the street. Once we did that, the water stopped completely. But Just in case that was not it, we added the interior French drain for reassurance.
@Matthew Paul We were lucky to find the sewage line coming into this room when we broke the cement. This allowed us to connect the slopped French drain pipes directly into it. Allowing us not to use a pump.
Got some bad news for you . It needs to be redone . First , sewer gas is going to enter the basement area and house , yes even from under the concrete slab there is no trap . Now , when there is a back up in the main , for what ever reason , all that sewage is going under your slab , into your stone and into the block walls . How you did this is incorrect , un healthy most likely illegal .
@Matthew Paul Thanks Matt. There’s two traps actually and All work was done by fully licensed & insured plumbers. Thanks for the not at all negative/aggressive comment :-)
One quote comes to mind “To avoid being critizes , Say nothing, do nothing , be nothing” .
why did you not just cut a ditch along the edge and then either pipe it into the sewage line or use a sump pump? seems like it would have been a wayyy cheaper and less time intensive fix? i don't know if i would trust underfloor piping for a house i live in
Well, I hate to say it but i definitely agree with @Matthew Paul and to make it more interesting, I work for one of the largest water/sewer utilities in the country and hooking up your gutters water or sump pump etc water to your sewage line is totally illegal in Maryland (very likely in your state too!) Why ?? you may ask....because you are adding rain water (which should be pump out to creeks, rivers, bays since it is a clean rain or ground water) to already stressed out sewage system in your county , and you are not paying for the filtration process of added sewage. The cost of filtering sewage is higher than producing drinkable water and you are adding more water to a treatment plant process than you are paying for.Yes, sewage backing up into your house and poisonous gases are now serious threat.
Yes, had something similar done. One duplex, which we occupied would always flood after a heavy rainstorm. We had the basement partly waterproofed. I found the area where the water was coming in, it was a crack in the basement wall, so the contractor dug down to the foundation and waterproofed that one wall. Water still leaked in, less than before, so I had the drains and a sump pump put in.
The sump pump did the job, heard it come on a few times. A few years later, decided to replace the cement walkway that surrounded the perimeter of the house, widening it, which suspected was another source of the flooding, had the walkway angled out, so rain water would flow away from the house. Thereafter, for over 15 years now, the sump pump never came on, and no flooding.
In NYC where I am, one cannot hook it directly into the sewer system. even though my sump pump is located next to the sewer pipe. One draw back of sump pumps is my brother in law had a similar setup, in NJ, with sump pumps, but once or twice, heavy rainstorms and high winds caused power to go out. Unfortunately, he didn't have emergency backup power, so had minor flooding.
@Matthew Paul@Luke Ski Gentleman thank you for your inputs. But take some time to read carefully... we did not connect ANY drainage to the sewage line. The garage drainage which WAS connected to the sewage line & coming into the house was CANCELED therefore no drainage water is going into the sewage line. We added a sep new line for the garage drain leading out to the street.
But again thank you for the cautionary advise guys. I think You should REALLY consider offering your knowledge to newbies who are going thru their 1st flips. They will def value such detailed advise from professionals like yourselves. You’ll ADD a ton of value to them & maybe also get paid for your advise. Turning your knowledge to power is something many struggle with. For knowledge is only potential power unless you apply it...correctly.
@Frank Chin Thanks for sharing. Grading the soil & concrete around the home is def one of the most economic & effective ways to Direct water away from the home.
@Matthew Paul We were lucky to find the sewage line coming into this room when we broke the cement. This allowed us to connect the slopped French drain pipes directly into it. Allowing us not to use a pump.
I'm confused...
This says you found a sewage line and connected the French drain directly to it which allowed you not to use a pump.
Your last post said you didn't connect to the sewage line? I have a water issue in my basement now and am interested in some cheap fixes (my quotes for French drains have been 5-6 times what you paid so I'm very interested) however you seem to be contradicting yourself. Did you tie into the sewer line or not? If not, where does your French drain go?
@Brian Pulaski Your correct. I’m Contradicting myself. Nothing to learn here. No money was saved or problem solved. Sorry to disappoint you. Im selling all of my rentals in nyc & quitting real estate investing. Let me know if your interested in buying??
Licensed plumbers are not necessary for drain tile . Plumbers are only necessary when you are dealing with potable water and the sewage system . and was the work inspected , thats what counts .
There is a fernco in @Jorge P. 's picture , and a small section of steel pipe . Thats how the connection to the sewer was made . Even if there was a trap ,in the dry times the water in the trap would dry up and gasses would get by . And a trap does nothing to stop back ups .
Water only flows down hill , to get water out of a basement its either a pump or gravity . Since its a basement the only way for gravity would be a trench below the floor , and to a point lower than the basement outside . Or use the sewer line already in place .
IF , and I say IF this is hooked into the gravity sewer as pictured , this is the WRONG way to do it . It has the potential to be a very expensive mistake down the road .
@Brian Pulaski Your correct. I’m Contradicting myself. Nothing to learn here. No money was saved or problem solved. Sorry to disappoint you. Im selling all of my rentals in nyc & quitting real estate investing. Let me know if your interested in buying??
I'm getting he sarcasm, but was really hoping you could give an explanation into what you actually did with this set up (your costs are very good for the work and I would love to know where you sent the water). Ok, sorry for asking a question, carry on!
@Brian Pulaski This time your request is much more graceful then the initial. DM and I'm happy to answer your question as this post in being misused as a platform to deconstruct oppose to construct.
@Matthew Paul Thanks Matt. There’s two traps actually and All work was done by fully licensed & insured plumbers. Thanks for the not at all negative/aggressive comment :-)
One quote comes to mind “To avoid being critizes , Say nothing, do nothing , be nothing” .
I am curious, did you get permits and have this inspected by the city? I am not familiar with your local code, but I can say in other parts of the country you cannot connect a foundation drain line to your sewer. Even with a trap, if the line doesn't have regular water flow, the trap will run dry. That will result in sewer gas in the basement. Or in a case where the sewer backs up, it will force fecal matter around your entire foundation. The main reason you cannot connect foundation drains to sewer is due to risk of overwhelming the sewer system when there is strong rains. Garage drains are different because it is inside and is not fed by rain water. Garage drains are often connected to the sewer line and it is allowable by code in most areas.
@Brian Pulaski This time your request is much more graceful then the initial. DM and I'm happy to answer your question as this post in being misused as a platform to deconstruct oppose to construct.
Im a "Good vibes only" type of guy :-)
I dont agree that this post is being used to "deconstruct " . This post is being used to educate all those who read it , from the original pictures and the description how the work was done , It was done incorrectly with expensive consequences down the road . This is one example of why codes are there in the first place , and some explanations of why it is wrong , and what will happen as a result . While everything was open , adding a sump crock , pump and piping would have been $500 in materials and around $500 or less in labor . If the original poster cant accept constructive criticism , why post at all .
As a contractor I see things that make me shake my head " what were they thinking" weekly . I get asked to take shortcuts to save the customer money . The answer is always the same .............. No ,
Plumbing code was made for a reason ,the health and safety of humans . Cross contamination in plumbing is a BIG deal .
@Brian Pulaski This time your request is much more graceful then the initial. DM and I'm happy to answer your question as this post in being misused as a platform to deconstruct oppose to construct.
Im a "Good vibes only" type of guy :-)
I dont agree that this post is being used to "deconstruct " . This post is being used to educate all those who read it , from the original pictures and the description how the work was done , It was done incorrectly with expensive consequences down the road . This is one example of why codes are there in the first place , and some explanations of why it is wrong , and what will happen as a result . While everything was open , adding a sump crock , pump and piping would have been $500 in materials and around $500 or less in labor . If the original poster cant accept constructive criticism , why post at all .
As a contractor I see things that make me shake my head " what were they thinking" weekly . I get asked to take shortcuts to save the customer money . The answer is always the same .............. No ,
Plumbing code was made for a reason ,the health and safety of humans . Cross contamination in plumbing is a BIG deal .
Also if we are going to get detailed on this, the pipe should have holes on all sides. The holes should have a fabric wrap that prevents small contaminates from entering. There should be crushed rock below and above the pipe. You also want a drain lip on the wall the runs under the cement slab to give a path for water. Here is what it looks like done properly:
@Joe Splitrock Yes. - I also filed my taxes on time the past 5 years. I have transcripts if you need a copy and want to verify that. I’ll just ask you to keep my kids and wives personal info confidential. Thanks Joe
@Joe Splitrock looks like your making a lot of assumptions. If your passionate enough, come down to Flatbush BK & i’ll be happy to show you the property & you can educate me in person?