Single parent - Should I buy this duplex and live in half?

Single parent - Should I buy this duplex and live in half?

Rental Property Investor · New England · Member since 2010 · 86 posts · 75 votes

Hi everyone! I am totally new here, so I hope you'll excuse my newbie-ness.
I am located in Southern NH (about an hour north of Boston). I've been looking to buy a home for myself and my two boys. It's been very difficult to find anything in my price range, which for a single-family home is $275k. I've already lost out on a couple of fixer-uppers even though I offered above asking and little to no inspections. Also, I'm trying to stay in my sons' school district - which is rural and has little to offer for homes in my price range.

An opportunity to buy a 1985 duplex just came up. It's listed at about $325k. Each unit has 2 BR and 1 1/2 BA. It's a mirrored-floorpan townhouse style with 2 floors and walkout basement in a nice country setting. The yard is manageable for me at less than an acre. My mortgage broker says I would qualify and we will finalize a pre-approval tomorrow. I saw one side of the duplex with my realtor today and aside from some minor updating, it seemed fine. The other tenant wouldn't allow us access with several days notice, so my offer would be contingent on that and condition of the unit. (Red flag regarding that tenant not cooperating.)

I'm attaching what I got from the calculator. I treated it as if I were not living there, but technically the rents for this place should be $1600 and $1500, according to both realtors (mine and seller's realtor). Currently, the tenants are paying $1100 and $1200. I'm not sure why this is, because there is a shortage of rentals here. 

So, if I'm reading right, as investors, you all like to have the Cash on Cash ROI be over 12%, right? But if I live there, is it okay that it's just shy of 8? (I was generous with the expenses estimates.) I really just want to be able to subsidize some of my own "rent". My mortgage payment for the whole thing is estimated at $2238/mo from my mortgage broker fees worksheet.

Any thoughts would be so helpful! This is a big step for me and I'm nervous. I'm also not a numbers-whiz, but I'm trying. Do these numbers work? Thank you!

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Member since 2018 · 83 posts · 51 votes
7y

I personally think this a great idea. I've recommended my kids starting out like this instead of a SFH. After you build enough equity you could always go out and buy that SFH you want and rent both sides out.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Rental Property Investor · New England · Member since 2010 · 86 posts · 75 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Richie Davis:

    @Chris Hanisco It looks like a great opportunity for you to get your toes wet with investing in real estate while still being able to meet your family needs and wants. You will gain an inherited tenant so there is a lot of learning to do in regards to being a land lord and you will need to make it happen pretty quick. Im sure a tenant would love top not have to pay a month or two rent because they no longer know who or where to pay so you have to get that handles right away. The last thing you want is to be knocking on doors asking where the rent money is. I bought a duplex with inherited tenants a few months ago and the learning curve has been very steep. I would recommend getting all their lease info ASAP and sitting down with an attorney that is familiar with real estate! It doesn't cost nearly as much money as you would think and they can save you a ton of money and headaches in the future. If you would like to know detailed information on the programs I use or would like any other advice, please don't hesitate to DM me. I would say this deal is a GO just like everyone else has stated!

    Thanks! They are actually month-to-month. My offer was accepted today. I'm doing a walkthrough on the other side this weekend and inspections on Wednesday. I have the contract stating that it be vacant. 

  • Rental Property Investor · New England · Member since 2010 · 86 posts · 75 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Casey Powers:
    Originally posted by @Chris Hanisco:

    So, I found out today that I won't qualify for 10% down conventional, as my broker had thought. (My FICO is on the better side of fair at the moment - thank you, ex-husband... NOT.) He's looking at 15% down now. 

    If your credit card usage is above 30%, the quickest way to boost your credit scores is to pay down the cards to below 5% of available credit. Keep it there. This could possibly get you better loan terms. 

     Nope. My utilization is fine, except that I don't have enough credit. Every time I even put something small on my card, it shoots my utilization up. I'm fixing that. I also had a collection, but I settled it earlier this week and it should go away. 

  • Rental Property Investor · New England · Member since 2010 · 86 posts · 75 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Pat L.:

    Friends of our started that same way. She had 2 young boys & struggled to buy a duplex, then finally met the right guy several years later.

    Here it is 40 years later & they just sold off the last of their 138 units. 

    On the difficult tenant I would insist on vacant possession if possible.

     Amazing! Thanks for the happy ending story!
    And yes on the tenant.

  • Rental Property Investor · Plantation, FL · Member since 2018 · 33 posts · 7 votes
    7y

    @Chris Hanisco - best of luck 

    ! 👍. Call if you need anything else: PM I mean 😂 - you’re on your way now!!

  • Rental Property Investor · New England · Member since 2010 · 86 posts · 75 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jassem A.:

    @Chris Hanisco

    Have you looked into USDA loans? Could be another option if it's rural.

     None of the mortgage professionals I spoke to mentioned that as an option, so I'm guessing we're just not rural enough. Thanks!

  • Rental Property Investor · New England · Member since 2010 · 86 posts · 75 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Chris Hanisco also, the tenant not letting you see inside could mean there's something going on, just make sure you see every square inch of the place before your inspection or option period is up!

     Thanks for both of your comments! Yes, I think it's a good deal for me, and yes on the other unit. I'm seeing it on Sunday. My offer was accepted pending my acceptance of the other unit. Inspections Wednesday. :)

  • Rental Property Investor · New England · Member since 2010 · 86 posts · 75 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Joseph Walsh:

    FYI, an FHA loan's PMI is only for the life of the loan with <10% down. Otherwise it's 13 years. Also, as you will be living there, I would seriously consider getting the current tenant out, so you can do you're own screening of the people you'll be sharing your kid's back yard with. They may be wonderful people, and encourage them to apply, but then you can vet them yourself with your own criteria. Plus you don't carry over any bad habits, and get to establish the tenant landlord relationship from square one (which is easier than "retraining" a tenant)

    Finally, put the offer in now if  you like it, just make it contingent on financing and inspection, so you don't lose it figuring out the loan.

    Good luck.

     This is great advice. Thank you! My offer was accepted.
    There is a snafu that I didn't mention. The tenant's son (13) is schoolmates with my son. They are somewhat friends. (Although he was bullying my son for a while in elementary school.) I think he (their son) is thinking we will be living next door and he's excited. I'm not sure how to handle it. I have to remind myself that it's a business decision, and I don't think they would want to (can?) pay $500 more a month. Plus the whole experience of not being let in put a bad taste in my mouth. Plus the yard is a disaster. Plus they have 2 big dogs. But I feel some guilt! Maybe they are wonderful people. I don't know. This is another post, really. :(

  • Rental Property Investor · New England · Member since 2010 · 86 posts · 75 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Deanna O.:

    The number that I don't see is how much are you paying for rent NOW. If you are currently paying $1500 it's a no-brainer - get the duplex. If you are paying less or barely scraping by, proceed with caution. 

    As far as the existing tenant, I'm not surprised that they don't want to allow access (they may be the "final straw" for why the landlord is getting rid of the property, too).  The only concern I would have if I were the seller is I kick out my (admittedly not so good) tenants, you back out, then I'm left with a 0 income property that needs serious repair on one side. As the buyer, I'd want them gone, fix the place, raise it to just below market, & screen applicants with a fine-tooth comb (POSSIBLY have the place just a tad under market -- that lets you be a bit pickier about who you let move in, vs taking the first warm body that has the $).

    For me, MySmartMove has been really, really useful for screening. Put on your detective hat when you are reading the application & calling references (you WILL be calling the references. All of them. No previous landlord contact, no deal). Make it clear what you will/won't accept (no evictions, no one with recent felony convictions, etc).  Nolo press has some good landlord books for the legal stuff.

    Thanks Deanna! Awesome advice. I can be a total softy and I know I can't do that as a landlord! I need to be careful and firm.

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    7y

    Congrats on the accepted offer. I hope the inspection goes well along with the viewing of the second unit.  It is more complicated that you know the person in the second unit, and weird that she wouldn't let you see it.  From what you said (aside from your sons being friends), it sounds like you'd be better off with a new tenant.  Raising the rent to fair market value may take care of that.

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    Looks good for a live in.  Don't let the inspection results specific to that unit  scare you off,   it is the bones of the place you need to be sure are good.  You will still be better off then a single family.   If you occupy that unit you can build in time at your current rental to do essential rehab to the way you want it prior to move in. It might even be better from the personal front because your position is that you are rehabbing the worst unit first.  Renters who are unco-operative often do so to make it harder to sell the place.  Curious why the unit price is different for the two units?

  • Bjorn AhlbladPro Member
    Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    7y

    @Chris Hanisco Just saw this thread again. Looks like everything is coming together just like you wanted! Good execution and congrats!

  • Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 4 votes
    7y

    Congrats on having the offer accepted!

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2010 · 377 posts · 314 votes
    7y

    Ah. The people part of land-lording is always the hard part. In a week I will be starting the foreclosure process on a distressed note. 

    I don't dislike the person living on the property, but even if it was advisable to keep a former owner/occupant (and it's not), he has failed on every single care task involved in the basic finances and care of the property (not paying taxes, power and water cut off for non-payment, no trash removal for years...quit paying mortgage in 2017, thus the foreclosure). It won't be fun, but it is necessary. 

    With these people, you are likely to have some interaction with them in the future (son is a schoolmate). You might also be cognizant of what you post online in social media site (including BP). You don't seem the kind of person to say mean things about people, and what you have posted is pretty legitimate.  I, too, would have reservations about keeping a prospective tenant who seemed to be difficult and uncooperative, not allowing access to a prospective buyer. I understand renters being afraid of losing their home, but unfortunately these folks more-or-less guaranteed that you wouldn't want to keep them by their behavior, even if the condition of the yard, house & dogs would have been acceptable to you. 

    As a first-time landlord, if the tenants HAD been acceptable, there could be an arguement for raising the rent only a small amount, and trading the lower monthly income in exchange for 0 initially vacancy and keeping the remodel $$$ in your account for a year or two, as long as nothing was structurally failing. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Windber, PA · Member since 2017 · 5 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    Me and my wife made this decision 2 years ago and it has worked out great so far. Great way to start your portfolio. Good luck!

  • Member since 2018 · 78 posts · 63 votes
    7y

    This is awesome! So glad your offer was accepted! Congratulations!

  • Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2018 · 405 posts · 474 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Chris Hanisco:
    Originally posted by @Casey Powers:
    Originally posted by @Chris Hanisco:

    So, I found out today that I won't qualify for 10% down conventional, as my broker had thought. (My FICO is on the better side of fair at the moment - thank you, ex-husband... NOT.) He's looking at 15% down now. 

    If your credit card usage is above 30%, the quickest way to boost your credit scores is to pay down the cards to below 5% of available credit. Keep it there. This could possibly get you better loan terms. 

     Nope. My utilization is fine, except that I don't have enough credit. Every time I even put something small on my card, it shoots my utilization up. I'm fixing that. I also had a collection, but I settled it earlier this week and it should go away. 

     If you aren’t paying the CC balance down below 5% before the statement/ reporting date, that is at least part of the problem. Pay the balance down before the statement date and see if that doesn’t help your scores. If you have low limits you have to really watch the CC spending and payments etc, to keep the REPORTED utilization down. You can spend on the card like crazy as long as you make sure the balance is paid down by the reporting date. 

    Re: collection. Did you get a pay to delete agreement? Because settling doesn’t make it go away unless they are also going to delete it. 

  • Rental Property Investor · New England · Member since 2010 · 86 posts · 75 votes
    7y

    Update! I saw the other side today. It wasn't nearly as nice as the first side and had a different floor plan upstairs. The tenant's son is giving my son a hard time, sending him nasty messages on Snapchat. Also, the seller is trying to get me to take possession even if he can't get the tenants out. I refuse to do that. Between all of this and repairs I'll be need to make, I think I'm going to have to skip this one. 🙁

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 680 posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Chris Hanisco I totally understand where you are on this decision.  Being successful in real estate you need to be confident especially going in with your decision.   And being the first investment property, this is a lot harder one to tackle.  Not only the condition but also the dynamics with your son and his so called "friend".  Top it off the sellers puting pressure to take it with the tenant.  I agree this is one you will do better walking away.  There will be other opportunities, keep your chin up!!!! Cheers!

  • Brookfield, WI · Member since 2016 · 191 posts · 108 votes
    7y

    hey, congrats.  Another option to consider.  Despite the fact that you'll be living right next door.  You could hire a property management company for the unit for a year, to "learn the ropes" and also give you backup if you decide to remove the tenant.  You wouldn't even need to let the next tenant know you are the owner.  "I just maintain the property for the owner" ....etc.  As a parent I have found that most kids who tend to bully have parents that tend to try an bully, so expect difficulty.  but like you said, that's another thread.  For me it was an education worth 10x the cost to hire someone.

    but like other's have said, informing them the rent will be going up to market might take care of it for you.

    Good luck.

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 485 posts · 384 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Chris Hanisco:
    Originally posted by @Ken Breeze:

    @Chris Hanisco

    Generally speaking, house hacking is it’s called these days, doesn’t have to be a bad idea staring out. The uncooperative tenant is a red flag.

    Get the rent roll from your broker and check out when the tenant’s lease is up, you might need to let him go, especially since you will want to rehab your entire duplex to force appreciation and increase rents to market level. Then you can choose which apartment you want to move into and you can also choose your next tenant.

    Monthly cashflow is the most important factor of all. Don’t bank on appreciation, this may or may not happen in the years to come. Cashflow is king and the value you create to increase your equity and thus standing with the banks which will allow you to acquire your next property.

    Which brings up the question why you are not going all the way in the non-commercial field of purchasing a fourplex? It’s the same work but more cashflow.

    Send me a colleague request and DM me with more questions if you like ;-)

    I would buy a 4-unit if I could but there are exactly 3 multi-families in our school district on the MLS right now. One is the duplex I'm discussing, one is two little cottages on one lot, and one is an expensive huge house with a little apartment attached. There are very few fourplexes here in our little towns.
    Thanks for the advice!

     I thought so much... once you've closed on this one I suggest focussing on commercial size MF - not just in your zip code - to scale faster. It's the same work and might give you more choice ;-)

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 485 posts · 384 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Chris Hanisco:

    @Ken Breeze

    So much great info. Thank you! I will check out all of those books you suggested. Right now I just want to get through this purchase. My offer was accepted today! 
    BTW, I was just in Phoenix last month for a trade show with my employer. Nice area!

     My pleasure and yes, Phoenix is a magical place ;-) Imagine though, we evaluated dozens of properties ranging from 11 to 562 units, made offers, most declined, some accepted and ran two on due diligence - none of them panned out. Four months of focussed work and no pay-off. The market is greedy, so saying no is often what will save you in the end. The tables will turn, be ready when they do.

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 485 posts · 384 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Chris Hanisco:
    Originally posted by @Jassem A.:

    @Chris Hanisco

    Have you looked into USDA loans? Could be another option if it's rural.

     None of the mortgage professionals I spoke to mentioned that as an option, so I'm guessing we're just not rural enough. Thanks!

    There are way better loans out there - keep asking lenders here on BP. We had a local mortgage broker and almost used a 3% FHA loan on a four-plex in Phoenix. They are out there.

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 485 posts · 384 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Chris Hanisco:
    Originally posted by @Joseph Walsh:

    FYI, an FHA loan's PMI is only for the life of the loan with <10% down. Otherwise it's 13 years. Also, as you will be living there, I would seriously consider getting the current tenant out, so you can do you're own screening of the people you'll be sharing your kid's back yard with. They may be wonderful people, and encourage them to apply, but then you can vet them yourself with your own criteria. Plus you don't carry over any bad habits, and get to establish the tenant landlord relationship from square one (which is easier than "retraining" a tenant)

    Finally, put the offer in now if  you like it, just make it contingent on financing and inspection, so you don't lose it figuring out the loan.

    Good luck.

     This is great advice. Thank you! My offer was accepted.
    There is a snafu that I didn't mention. The tenant's son (13) is schoolmates with my son. They are somewhat friends. (Although he was bullying my son for a while in elementary school.) I think he (their son) is thinking we will be living next door and he's excited. I'm not sure how to handle it. I have to remind myself that it's a business decision, and I don't think they would want to (can?) pay $500 more a month. Plus the whole experience of not being let in put a bad taste in my mouth. Plus the yard is a disaster. Plus they have 2 big dogs. But I feel some guilt! Maybe they are wonderful people. I don't know. This is another post, really. :(

    I sense too many red flags, and guilt is a terrible advisor. To quote a famous Shark Tank line: "I'm out" or the current tenant needs to get out. These are all signals screaming trouble. People don't change. The messy garden is just a taste of how their lives look like inside. Never make emotional decisions when doing business, especially when you're living in the middle of it every day.

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 485 posts · 384 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Casey Powers:
    Originally posted by @Chris Hanisco:
    Originally posted by @Casey Powers:
    Originally posted by @Chris Hanisco:

    So, I found out today that I won't qualify for 10% down conventional, as my broker had thought. (My FICO is on the better side of fair at the moment - thank you, ex-husband... NOT.) He's looking at 15% down now. 

    If your credit card usage is above 30%, the quickest way to boost your credit scores is to pay down the cards to below 5% of available credit. Keep it there. This could possibly get you better loan terms. 

     Nope. My utilization is fine, except that I don't have enough credit. Every time I even put something small on my card, it shoots my utilization up. I'm fixing that. I also had a collection, but I settled it earlier this week and it should go away. 

     If you aren’t paying the CC balance down below 5% before the statement/ reporting date, that is at least part of the problem. Pay the balance down before the statement date and see if that doesn’t help your scores. If you have low limits you have to really watch the CC spending and payments etc, to keep the REPORTED utilization down. You can spend on the card like crazy as long as you make sure the balance is paid down by the reporting date. 

    Re: collection. Did you get a pay to delete agreement? Because settling doesn’t make it go away unless they are also going to delete it. 

    @Casey Powers, I love your company name and thanks for the "pay to delete agreement" tip. Good catch.

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 485 posts · 384 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Chris Hanisco:

    Update! I saw the other side today. It wasn't nearly as nice as the first side and had a different floor plan upstairs. The tenant's son is giving my son a hard time, sending him nasty messages on Snapchat. Also, the seller is trying to get me to take possession even if he can't get the tenants out. I refuse to do that. Between all of this and repairs I'll be need to make, I think I'm going to have to skip this one. 🙁

     Great experience, great journey, good call. It takes courage and strength to let it go. Next.

    This will happen more often than not. Get used to it. But then, when the good one turns up, it will be really great. You did a really good job. Keep moving forward. We have your back ;-)

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