Do you low ball, or make sure you secure the deal?

Do you low ball, or make sure you secure the deal?

Real Estate Agent · Souderton, PA · Member since 2016 · 591 posts · 414 votes

This is in terms of buy and hold, or BRRRR....But when submitting an offer on a property that is priced well, let say exactly what it's worth, $100k. You run all your numbers, conservatively, and at $100k, plus renovations, this property will cash flow your target number, let's call it $250/month after you refinance. We'll call it a B/C neighborhood so there is some long term appreciation possibilities.

Do you:

A: Bid 100k, thinking there is a chance you’ll be the only one at full asking and cash.

B: Bid $90k, because $10k less is $10k less and your here for a deal. You’ll cash flow an extra $50/month, but there’s a chance that you are outbid.

C. Bid $110k, because it’s only $10k, you’ll cash flow $50/less, but there’s a pretty good chance you’ll be the highest bidder.

D. None of the above, explain what you would do.

Ready, go. And why?

A few disclaimers. There are obviously other factors, but imagine this is similar to other properties in your portfolio and try to focus on price alone, and whether you want to get the best deal, or make sure you get the property. This is for a BRRRR scenario, so it's a long term hold and you'll get most of your cash back out, so the 10k you spend or save is financed money. Use your current market conditions, and if that will affect your answer compared to maybe another time let us know. Let's assume you are one of 3 offers.

I’m excited to hear the wide range of answers BP is bound to deliver!

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Russell BrazilBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
7y

I dont pass over dollars to save pennies.  I close deals.  Too many people pass over good properties over a few grand, which is just absurd.  

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Rental Property Investor · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    @William C. I'm "A". If the numbers work and that's what I've determined that property is worth, I want the property. I may go in a little low, just to see what happens, but I'll never go high, and pay more than its worth.

  • Henry R.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Saratoga County, NY · Member since 2013 · 178 posts · 73 votes
    7y

    @William C. I like what @Jason D. said, also if you don't start low enough you don't know how much better of a deal you can get. Like Rich Dad Poor Dad says, " if you aren't embarrassed by your offer you offered to much". 

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    7y

    I dont pass over dollars to save pennies.  I close deals.  Too many people pass over good properties over a few grand, which is just absurd.  

  • Real Estate Agent · Souderton, PA · Member since 2016 · 591 posts · 414 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jason D.:

    @William C. I'm "A". If the numbers work and that's what I've determined that property is worth, I want the property. I may go in a little low, just to see what happens, but I'll never go high, and pay more than its worth.

     But you don't really get the liberty of seeing what happens....they'll either accept your offer or another.  There is no re-do.

  • Real Estate Broker · Bay Area · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    I dont pass over dollars to save pennies.  I close deals.  Too many people pass over good properties over a few grand, which is just absurd.  

     I couldn’t agree more here. If it still makes sense go for it and get it. I play to win.  Think about how much time it took to finally be in the position to get this. Don’t lose it for little money. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Souderton, PA · Member since 2016 · 591 posts · 414 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Henry R.:

    @William C. I like what @Jason D. said, also if you don't start low enough you don't know how much better of a deal you can get. Like Rich Dad Poor Dad says, " if you aren't embarrassed by your offer you offered to much". 

     I'm not sure you read the entire post....there are 3 offers total.  If you are writing an embarrassing offer in a multiple offer situation I pity your agent.  

  • Rental Property Investor · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    @William C. If there is another offer. I've never run into a multiple offer situation, they either take my offer, reject it, or counter.

  • Rental Property Investor · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    @William C. You're right, I missed that part.

    I make my 100k offer, I dont overpay, and dont want to lose for a few thousand bucks.

  • Henry R.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Saratoga County, NY · Member since 2013 · 178 posts · 73 votes
    7y

    @William C. Understood

  • Real Estate Agent · Souderton, PA · Member since 2016 · 591 posts · 414 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jason D.:

    @William C. If there is another offer. I've never run into a multiple offer situation, they either take my offer, reject it, or counter.

     I hear you, and I updated OP to reflect "highest and best"  The point being there is no counter offers, no feeling them out.   You have one shot at this thing, its you against 2 other random BPers...What do you do?  Some will low ball at 90k hoping the other 2 come in at 85k.   Some will go at asking hoping the others are lowballing. etc. etc.  

  • Henry R.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Saratoga County, NY · Member since 2013 · 178 posts · 73 votes
    7y

    @William C. Yes you are correct, we try as much as possible to stick with off market deals. That's how we got 2 of them.  In your case you have to do what works for you.

  • Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2011 · 956 posts · 510 votes
    7y

    I’d go for number 2 .

    Yes , I lose many deals but the ones I 

    get are great !

  • Tommy CangelosiPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Valdosta, GA · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 20 votes
    7y

    @William C.

    A. If your numbers work then go get the deal. Don’t mess around and lose the deal. I’m sure you already know this but also consider your market. How long do homes take to sell in your area? How long has it been on the market? All things being average then I would snag it for $100.

  • Real Estate Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2018 · 65 posts · 49 votes
    7y

    I'd take Option D and analyze the situation.  My answer to questions like this is almost always "it depends."

    Option A may be necessary to lock in a property that has interested buyers.  You may be able to use more earnest money or a quicker close date to display confidence to the seller.

    Option B may make sense if the seller has been trying to sell it for a while and/or you offer a quicker close date

    Option C may be necessary if it's listed under market value and it's in a bidding war or they are taking "highest and best."  If it fits into your criteria, pay it.

  • Lee RipmaPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Prairie Village, KS · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @William C.

    I did one with a C variant, I offered cash over ask because I knew there would be a lot of bidders then got it back to ask after inspections. If there are multiple bidders the high strong offer gets it and they are likely to negotiate with that buyer in escrow instead of going back to others. I’ve also done A and B. Sometimes you low ball with cash and they take it! Then you think-I wonder how much lower I could have gone?!? So it really depends on the situation but at the end of the day you want good deals for you and you don’t want to overpay. There is always a price that a deal is worth to you. Maybe you’ve got some secret knowledge that lets you go higher or lets you go in at ask. Like maybe you know that you can get 1500/mo for the units but they are assuming that you can only get 1200. Or whatever your secret knowledge may be. So sometimes ask is a screaming deal. Sometimes way over ask is a screaming deal. I guess my long winded point is that a deal is determined by you. Not the list price, not the sellers expectations. So if you know in your heart what you will pay to make it a deal and you don’t go over that then you win A, B, or C!

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y

    @William C. I offer enough Under market so I can liquidate and get my money back with selling costs. So I likely offer 90-93k

  • Real Estate Agent · Souderton, PA · Member since 2016 · 591 posts · 414 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:

    I'd take Option D and analyze the situation.  My answer to questions like this is almost always "it depends."

    Option A may be necessary to lock in a property that has interested buyers.  You may be able to use more earnest money or a quicker close date to display confidence to the seller.

    Option B may make sense if the seller has been trying to sell it for a while and/or you offer a quicker close date

    Option C may be necessary if it's listed under market value and it's in a bidding war or they are taking "highest and best." If it fits into your criteria, pay it.

     Obviously it always depends.  Thats why I wrote the disclaimer, to avoid 100 replies of...it depends on the situation....all of us have a natural go to mode.....I tried to paint a clear picture, deal is on the table, everyone KNOWS its worth 100k, there are 3 offers, what do you do?   No bidder wars, no feeling the seller out, no second chances.   Highest and best.  Try again maybe? 

  • Real Estate Agent · Souderton, PA · Member since 2016 · 591 posts · 414 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Tommy Cangelosi:

    @William C.

    A. If your numbers work then go get the deal. Don’t mess around and lose the deal. I’m sure you already know this but also consider your market. How long do homes take to sell in your area? How long has it been on the market? All things being average then I would snag it for $100.

     Yup, all things "average", no other variables....Thanks for the insight.  For example, I fall into one distinct category.  I have clients who fall into others.  I feel everyone has a natural tendency, when it comes down to "highest and best" and everyone is within 5-10k.  I wish share more, I promise.  I'm waiting on what others have to say first.

  • Real Estate Agent · Souderton, PA · Member since 2016 · 591 posts · 414 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Lee Ripma:

    @William C.

    I did one with a C variant, I offered cash over ask because I knew there would be a lot of bidders then got it back to ask after inspections. If there are multiple bidders the high strong offer gets it and they are likely to negotiate with that buyer in escrow instead of going back to others. I’ve also done A and B. Sometimes you low ball with cash and they take it! Then you think-I wonder how much lower I could have gone?!? So it really depends on the situation but at the end of the day you want good deals for you and you don’t want to overpay. There is always a price that a deal is worth to you. Maybe you’ve got some secret knowledge that lets you go higher or lets you go in at ask. Like maybe you know that you can get 1500/mo for the units but they are assuming that you can only get 1200. Or whatever your secret knowledge may be. So sometimes ask is a screaming deal. Sometimes way over ask is a screaming deal. I guess my long winded point is that a deal is determined by you. Not the list price, not the sellers expectations. So if you know in your heart what you will pay to make it a deal and you don’t go over that then you win A, B, or C!

     I understand.  We always arrive at a number from a multitude of variables.  I tried to make the make believe dream scenario where ART goes out the window and its strictly MATH.  Having worked with hundreds of buyers and sellers on both sides of the deal, people tend to fall into categories.  Some just want to get the deal done, even if they spend an extra 10k, some would rather walk, close on nothing, and sit on the sidelines than pay the 10k it would take to get it done.  It's an interesting debate.  No one is right, everyone is free to approach deals in there own way.  Iv noticed the retail buyers that fall in love with a home and go in there with no regard for money typically end up with their dream home, and those that want to try to save $8/month by offer $2k less end up back at the drawing board.  Retail is a different ball game, and I typically tell buyers if they will be upset if they lose it, give it their best.  Investing is a business so you should be able to take the emotions out of it.

  • Real Estate Agent · Souderton, PA · Member since 2016 · 591 posts · 414 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Marci Stein:

    I’d go for number 2 .

    Yes , I lose many deals but the ones I 

    get are great !

    Interesting approach. Is 10k less really that much of a greater deal? $50/month more cash flow? Rather than missing it and having to start all over again. Im not saying your wrong, in fact you could be right, just want to get your thoughts on why that might be your approach. Are deals easy to come by in your market? Im seeing more and more daily, but up until now its been pretty difficult. Still no reason to bend on your standards, but it was said earlier in the thread, sometimes people step over dollars to pick up pennies. Not sure thats always the best long term strategy. Keep in mind we are talking BRRRR. A flip is another story. 10% discount can go a long way. With BRRRR and financing the 10k over 30 years, the short term pain is relatively low, and the overall long term gains can be substantial. I appreciate the input. I love seeing so many different perpectives.

  • Developer · Atlanta and Detroit · Member since 2018 · 601 posts · 821 votes
    7y

    I must be dumb ***, I offer full price as I like to buy in rising markets, always lots of competition, this way I shoot my competition

  • Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 814 posts · 466 votes
    7y

    A. For Class A/B, very minimal work, (less than 3K), offer 90%, unless you know is a deal and market is super hot, then go for 95%

    B. See A. 

    C. This is where the fun begins.  It is all dependent on the property, so A. and B. no longer applies.  knowledge is power, even before inspecting the house.  You should know the price of roofs, HVAC, etc.  Every property is different and numbers are different as well, time to fix, vacant, etc.  

    If seller asked for highest and best, and they don't care of items to be repaired, stand by, they are either desperate or they know what they are dong.  I would proceed to an offer with a period to back out, in there you can request full availability of inspection (by you or inspector), deposit min them (usually $100 or so), and decide if you ant to go forward.  

  • Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 814 posts · 466 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Marisa R.:

    I must be dumb ***, I offer full price as I like to buy in rising markets, always lots of competition, this way I shoot my competition

     Yeah.  It depends on the market and flow.  Shoot the competition.. I'm not so sure of that.  But it may work on your market...

  • Rental Property Investor · Western Washington · Member since 2018 · 151 posts · 60 votes
    7y

     @William C.  I'd lean towards option "A". I don't want to lose a good deal over a few thousand dollars. It's nothing in the grand scheme of things. I might add a little concession or two and use odd numbers just to make the offer a little more enticing and stand out amongst the others.

  • Real Estate Agent · Renton, WA · Member since 2017 · 204 posts · 151 votes
    7y

    @William C. Thanks for posting this quesiton. I would go with Option A as the numbers workout, and if they had an offer for more than, thats ok.  At the end of the day it comes down to the numbers for me.  Happy Investing!

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