Washington, DC · Member since 2018 · 65 posts · 35 votes
Hi all!
I just walked through my first flip property (yay!) with my GC this morning. He is quoting me 13k on a small master bath. I think it's too much but would love to hear from some of you. If I pay 13k for this bathroom, I will be way over budget and will walk away with very little profit...
Rental Property Investor · Beavercreek OH · Member since 2018 · 422 posts · 970 votes
7y
@Tomiko Graves
Tomiko, 13k seems off the chart to me. My expectations/experience:
New Vanity & Mirror Combo $250 at Home Depot
Vanity Light $85 at Lowes
New Toilet $150 at Lowes
LVP Flooring 100 sq. feet (tops) at 2.20 sq ft. = $220 at Menards
Tub $275 at Lowes
Tub surround $220 at Lowes
or Tub Porcelain tile surround 60 sq feet at 2.00 = $120 + mastic and grout $100 at Lowes
Faucets, towel racks, and such $300 at Lowes
So about $1500 in materials.
I'd normally pay about $300 for demo. $200 to lay the flooring, $1000 to set the vanity and vinyl tub with surround and $200 to hang light, mirror and towel racks. So $1700 for labor. Add about $400 more for the tile installation if your home requires that upgrade. Of course, then you'd save $220 on the unneeded surround.
All in for around $3700. You could easily escalate the price with nicer finishes and fancy showers. That seems unnecessary to me in your ARV range.
Keep in mind I live in the Midwest and prices here are pretty reasonable. Still $4k is way different then $13K. We do beautiful kitchens here for less then that outlandish price.
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
7y
I’ve done a full gut rehab on a bathroom for 2600 and that’s paying someone to do most of the work . When I say full gut I mean the floor had no flooring it was bowed and rotted joists ..there was no tub no shower no fixtures no toilet no vanity no lighting medicine cabinet or anything , just an empty gross room with a bowed/sloped floor with a window . I understand you can get really expensive remodels in luxury bathrooms but 13k is beyond outrageous for the pics your showing us at that trim level in my opinion .
Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y
I wish I knew where you guys get these cheap quotes. I just redid a 1/2 bath in my own home. The room is literally 4’ x 4.5’. It was a late 50’s tile floor and walls. It took me almost 18 hours to gut, 1700lbs to the dump. I spent $1500 start to finish, no crazy high end materials. No labor costs as I did it myself. I would have charged $4500 for this 1/2 bath.
Poughkeepsie, NY · Member since 2019 · 12 posts · 3 votes
7y
@Tomiko Graves
$13k seems like a lot for a bath reno that size on a flip house but thats my personal opinion. That being said, I have a friend who wont touch bathrooms for under $30k but all of his work is million dollar plus homes...
Rental Property Investor · Wayzata · Member since 2019 · 80 posts · 24 votes
7y
@Tomiko Graves I think the biggest problem is you said "Master Bath." People want the wow factor. This looks like a hall bath or extra bath, not a master.
No matter how much you spend, figure out how you can get a WOW factor cheaply and do that thing and paint the rest white. White always works. Or white with an accent color like beige.
Look at Joanna Gaines' house flips for ideas or open up a Pottery Barn or one of those cottage/thrifty magazines. Maybe just get a new shower and tub and paint the rest white with one accent color. Go for WOW.
Real Estate Broker · Modesto, CA · Member since 2014 · 82 posts · 76 votes
7y
@Tomiko Graves what's the ARV?.. is this a 2/1 or a 3/1 .. is this flip in a first time buyer area ? From ur pictures.. bathroom looks small .. typical 5 x 8ish ... $13k way to much.. we are seasoned flippers with our in house construction crews
Flipper/Rehabber · Spartanburg, SC · Member since 2019 · 32 posts · 33 votes
7y
I'm here in the Carolina's as well and if I looked at that bath during my walk through I would estimate it not replacing the tiles and would come in around 2k. If you do the tiles, you get into the walls and they are a pain to remove and very messy. There simply isn't a good way to get that plaster/mesh out. If you get into the walls, you should update the plumbing from what is probably galvanized supplies to pex. The deeper you get into this the more opportunity you're going to have to increase expenses because of the unknown. As long as the floor is solid, I would look into resurfacing the tub and trying to improve the look and feel with the fixtures.
I see a lot of people here that are doing the repairs themselves. I did it on my first one as well. Since I tied up all the money I had in that one deal I had to finish it before I could do the next. The fact that I went the DIY route increased the rehab time several months, cost more interest and in the end made me feel more like a carpenter/plumber/painter and not an investor. I check behind my new contractors now but I don't do the work. I don't risk thousands of dollars and much effort to be a plumber. I'm a Real Estate investor.
HIGHLAND, MD · Member since 2011 · 160 posts · 141 votes
7y
@Tomiko Graves
There are retail contractors and there are more investor friendly guys. If you are totally hands off and not experienced enough to know how much materials and labor cost you will be at the mercy of a GC who will do it all for you and make more due to the fact that you don’t know any better and need to be hand held and coddled a lot more than a veteran of 15 rehabs.
I used to do a lot of work myself to save where I could. As I got better and more experienced I hired 3-4 specialists to speed up the process. You can hire a company that sends 2 guys who do everything in house but I can tell you that the Specialists move so much faster due to their experience and repetition.
You need a
Demo guy or handyman
Plumber
Painter/drywall guy
Handyman
Shop around and price the material yourself to get an idea of the material costs. Then all you have to figure is the labor. When you break out the labor from the materials then you will see what your costs really are and where they are out of line. If you picked a
Nice tile that’s 3.50 a sqft and you see the GC is quoting $9 sqft then you can save a lot. Talk to the distributors for material also and ask what a standard price for labor is for things to get a feel for the standard range.
If you just want a package deal from one guy, then call 4 more companies and see where they fall.
Real Estate Agent · Joplin, MO · Member since 2018 · 112 posts · 96 votes
7y
The disconnect I'm seeing if that the folks arguing in favor of 13k+ remodels are talking about GC's, code, and living in NY & CA. Keep in mind the property in question is a different market. In my particular market, a simple one man handyman crew would be the proper hire for this job and we don't need a union contractor, GC, or licensed plumber to disconnect and reconnect a toilet and sink. Just a different perspective and different area. In the midwest at least, our codes are looser and our prices are cheaper.
I just walked through my first flip property (yay!) with my GC this morning. He is quoting me 13k on a small master bath. I think it's too much but would love to hear from some of you. If I pay 13k for this bathroom, I will be way over budget and will walk away with very little profit...
Here are the pics:
Tomiko, last year in NC I had a full bath completely remade (rotten floor, removed tub, toilet, sink/vanity, all new tile, paint, etc) and added a brand new half-bath that wasn't in the house originally, and I paid less than half of the $13K you were quoted. I won't say that guy is a thief, but if you use him you'll be robbed.
One of the hardest parts of starting out as a RE investor is finding contractors who do good work for a fair price. IMO, $13K is an outrageous price for a ARV of $110K. Either reduce the scope of work, or call other contractors for more quotes.
Tomiko, keep in mind that you are new. Unless you've had experience working with tradesmen and contractors, it will be difficult for you to figure out which inexpensive guy is going to do a good job and which is going to do a bad job. Also, it's hard for you to figure out which expensive contractor is going to do a good job and which is going to do a bad job.
I don't want you to overpay, but I also don't want you to pay a guy $5K and he does a job so bad you have to redo everything. Keep in mind, you could pay this guy $13K and he could ruin it and you have to start over anyway.
Get 5 quotes. Get references from previous jobs. TRUST NO ONE! Never pay upfront! Even if it's a guy you see sometimes at your church. At most, pay for materials upfront -- meaning you meet him at the store and pay while you're looking at what is being purchased. It's easy to get rolled in this business. This is your first deal, and you have to be extra scrupulous.
One other thing. IMO, that bath isn't in bad shape if your target price is $110K.
Pull up the floor and install new tile. New toilet. New vanity and sink and medicine cabinet. New handles, faucet and shower head in the tub. Pull up the caulk and recaulk. And paint. I bet that will make the bathroom look much better. Maybe a new door, but I can't see that in the picture.
The floor will probably be the most expensive part. The rest will take an experienced guy about a day, maybe two.
If you decide to remove all the tiles in the shower, definitely come back with a tub surround package. Much less expense for materials, easier to install, and thus much less cost in labor. But I still say call a company that does reglazing for tubs and tile and see what they charge. You might be surprised.
Rosemead, CA · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 4 votes
7y
I have a contractor that built one from scratch, he does electric and pipe too, framing and everything from start to finish is 12k. I paid for material, his labor is 6k. Took 2 weeks.
Rental Property Investor · Seal Beach, CA · Member since 2016 · 115 posts · 85 votes
7y
I’m not sure what the rate of labor is out there, but I can tell you that until you have done a complete bathroom remodel, you won’t understand why a GC will charge what they do. Assuming you have old plumbing, electrical needs to be doctored up in some way shape or form and you have probably have concrete floated walls which create a lot of labor. There are obviously different levels of a bathroom remodel, but i can tell you it’s very easy to think labor is overpriced until you’ve done it. 13k sounds too high for your area, but that is definitely on point for California.
Rental Property Investor · Brookville, OH · Member since 2016 · 488 posts · 363 votes
7y
Contact other investors in the area and just ask for references on contractors and also about typical costs for remodeling different items. I know in my area a nice bath using contractor grade or big box materials and labor is $3500-$4000. Sounds like you may be dealing with a retail GC with high over head costs.
The disconnect I'm seeing if that the folks arguing in favor of 13k+ remodels are talking about GC's, code, and living in NY & CA. Keep in mind the property in question is a different market. In my particular market, a simple one man handyman crew would be the proper hire for this job and we don't need a union contractor, GC, or licensed plumber to disconnect and reconnect a toilet and sink. Just a different perspective and different area. In the midwest at least, our codes are looser and our prices are cheaper.
Even here in NY, on a $1m ARV house that I just finished, we didn't spend $13k on the master. That is still too much money.
The main issue is that when you’re new your materials & labor cost more than most of us on BP that do this everyday. Materials alone probably cost us 25-50% less than a retail buyer/flipper.
Investor · Detroit, MI · Member since 2015 · 36 posts · 14 votes
7y
@Tomiko Graves
Absolutely great Discussion and feed back. This the reason I joined BP, Tomiko you have garnered enough information from your question to definitely make a more informed decision concerning not only the bathroom rehab. but the entire flip as well. Love it!
Contractor · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 31 votes
7y
@Tomiko Graves
I would just suggest getting a few quotes. Sounds like you’re not wanting to DIY, and like I believe Gary said $13k seems off the chart, especially for a tiny little bathroom. My wife and I put a heat pump in our house years ago and I pulled the electrical permit myself and wired the disconnect which saved me $1k there. Then I got quotes! $3k on low end and somewhere around $6,500 on the high end. That’s just to say, you may get the same work done for half the quote you received. Good luck!!!!