13K Bathroom Remodel - Help!
Washington, DC · Member since 2018 · 65 posts · 35 votes
Hi all!
I just walked through my first flip property (yay!) with my GC this morning. He is quoting me 13k on a small master bath. I think it's too much but would love to hear from some of you. If I pay 13k for this bathroom, I will be way over budget and will walk away with very little profit...
Here are the pics:
@Tomiko Graves
Tomiko, 13k seems off the chart to me. My expectations/experience:
New Vanity & Mirror Combo $250 at Home Depot
Vanity Light $85 at Lowes
New Toilet $150 at Lowes
LVP Flooring 100 sq. feet (tops) at 2.20 sq ft. = $220 at Menards
Tub $275 at Lowes
Tub surround $220 at Lowes
or Tub Porcelain tile surround 60 sq feet at 2.00 = $120 + mastic and grout $100 at Lowes
Faucets, towel racks, and such $300 at Lowes
So about $1500 in materials.
I'd normally pay about $300 for demo. $200 to lay the flooring, $1000 to set the vanity and vinyl tub with surround and $200 to hang light, mirror and towel racks. So $1700 for labor. Add about $400 more for the tile installation if your home requires that upgrade. Of course, then you'd save $220 on the unneeded surround.
All in for around $3700. You could easily escalate the price with nicer finishes and fancy showers. That seems unnecessary to me in your ARV range.
Keep in mind I live in the Midwest and prices here are pretty reasonable. Still $4k is way different then $13K. We do beautiful kitchens here for less then that outlandish price.
Good luck on your first flip!
I have been a contractor for 25 years so I know the cost of doing business. Contractors are really like the variety of materials you will use in a house. You can spend over $3000 on a refrigerator or $500. Both will keep your food cold. I have seen low priced contractors that do a great job as well as high priced ones that were hacks. It often amuses me when I get a quote from a guy that has a small crew and he spends the entire day riding around in a new 70k truck and he talks about covering overhead. Match your contractor to your job.
@Marian Smith this is super helpful!
@Walid Ajmal @Marian Smith @Gary L Wallman if you notice in the pic, there's a silver rail screwed to the tiles that I'm assuming was used to help the former owners get in and out of the shower. My contractor says that once he takes that off, the tiles will likely crack (besides the ones that the bar is screwed right into. Since this tile is green and dated, he wouldn't be able to replace it, thereby needing a full demo of the tile and putting new tile up. Same scenario for the soap dishes over the sink.
@Chris Howells you're exactly correct. It's plaster embedded with wire underneath.
@Julie N. what is "reflexes"?
Well, you learned a lesson on this one. Next time you'll be better able to estimate costs. I don't think $13k for a full gut reno of a bathroom is out of line, but your selling price can't support it.
If the tile is otherwise intact, leave the handrail and soap dishes. Scrub the tile until it sparkles. Then do what others have suggested with reglazing the tub, paint, flooring, toilet, vanity, faucet, lighting, etc.
But since you are leaving the green tile and dated soap dishes, spend a few more dollars on the stuff you do upgrade. Don't buy the $95 toilet and $150 vanity and $1/sf laminate flooring. Get something that looks and feels like quality to help compensate for the lack of budget to renovate the bathroom properly. Maybe put in $5k instead of $3700. Otherwise you are going to end up with a bathroom that looks and feels cheap, and that won't help you get your asking price.
The midpoint would be to demo the tub and tile and put in a prefab fiberglass tub/shower enclosure. But that will still cost you, and once you open up those walls you will start finding other stuff that needs to be fixed.
@Tomiko Graves This is where I think it is most important to see this as a learning experience. You may pay your GC to handle this first flip for you and your margins may not be near what you expected, but if you pay attention to the work that is done and the manner in which it’s done, it could be a college education on flipping for you. On projects this scale, this is where you will possibly want to manage the work yourself. Find your own plumber, tile installer, painters. Buy your own materials from the stores previously suggested and have them onsite. This is the way you can see costs, mange costs and also save a lot of money. GCs can be great, but as your experience grows, so will your network and knowledge of what it will take. That’s why it’s so important to be as involved in the process as you can be. Good luck and always learn from each project, good or bad.
@Tomiko Graves
No way! We are averaging around $1,500 for materials for a master bath. Now maybe it’s different here is Rochester NY but I doubt that materials vary that much from market to market. So that mean that you’ve paid more than $10k for labor. Forget it - not happening- no way.
Chances are that if your posting these pics, and asking these questions, that you yourself know that it’s overpriced.
The challenge is that you’ve made an agreement and now the job is done - nothings left to do than pay for it. But in. Opinion, it’s a $5,000 job (including materials)
@Jason Turgeon I love this. Concise!
@Dan Schweit yes. I am totally looking at this as a learning experience. I'm taking notes and asking a ton of questions. I also went to Floor decor and priced tile, etc so I could have a general idea of the cost and quality of tile. The challenge is that this is a long distance flip! However, I have a few people on the ground that will be my eyes and ears. I love this advice!
@Matt Honeyford the job hasn't begun. So I am still in a VERY good position to discuss these changes that are being shared. I promise. I will not pay 13k for the bathroom. Thanks so much!
@Phil Dodd lol. The flip is in North Carolina.
Hi all!
I just walked through my first flip property (yay!) with my GC this morning. He is quoting me 13k on a small master bath. I think it's too much but would love to hear from some of you. If I pay 13k for this bathroom, I will be way over budget and will walk away with very little profit...
Here are the pics:
No way 13K! IMO: Gut the entire bathroom and replace with tilebacker board surrounding tub, green sheetrock everywhere else, new tub, porcelain tiles (3-walls around tub and all floor), new toilet, new vanity, new fixtures, new light/vent combo and paint could be done for about 6-7K on a 5x8 bathroom.
@Tomiko Graves get the tub resurfaced $300 it looks brand new.
No licensed contractor is going to remodel a bathroom for $2,000.. they have labor to pay, workers comp, taxes. You're talking a weeks worth of work. My labor is more than $2,000 a week on 2-3 man crew. If someone told me they'd give me a new bathroom for $2,000 in labor, I'd run the other direction as fast as possible. Code in just about every jurisdiction requires a licensed GC or plumber to set your surround, toilets, and vanity. My rundown on your situation here is that you should be doing the work yourself if possible to keep your budget within reach.
You're going to end up with poor workmanship and it's going to cost you more in the end. There's a difference between how much something is and what something costs. I do flips where the end goal is $120k but we're also getting these properties under $20k all in. Your main selling points will be the kitchen and the bathroom, don't skimp there. Badly cut trim, bad paint, etc will not be as noticeable but those two areas will sell a house by themselves. Don't get yourself into the habit of hiring beer money contractors, it will burn you in the end.
You don't need the most expensive guy but just get someone reputable and someone that is charging enough to be proud of their work and charging enough to make a living at the very least.
Ron,
With all due respect if it took 2 to 3 of your guys a week to redo that small bathroom, I'd never be able to use you on one of my flips.
Look at the tiles, they're all buckled. There is concrete board back there, there is plaster and lathe that is ugly looking and needs to be re-done with drywall. The framing is most likely rough cut so the drywall will need to be floated, when the walls come down you need to upgrade the electrical since I can also bet the electrical is not properly insulated, you need GFCI by sink, you have to have an arc fault breaker on the bathroom outlets and switches and those need to be on their own breaker by code.
There is a massive gob of caulk at the base of the tile and the wall, which most likely means that the floor has sunk by the toilet. You'll need to replace probably some of the toilet drain and replace the rotted lumber under the toilet, re-level the floor, etc. Or you can do it slumlord style and just put lipstick on a pig and let it be someone else's problem in the future. There are two kinds of flippers, the ones that want it done the right way and the ones that just slap it all together and have Crackhead Larry do the work for $300 and hope you don't get sued from the new property owner.
All of this stuff needs to be done in addition to replacement of the tub & shower surround which also by code must be set in concrete (no one ever does this) or it'll squeek, crack, and end up leaking. Each of these steps are limited by cure times, drywall mud prevents you from moving forward until it's sanded and dried at least 2 coats, the mortar for your tile & concrete for your tube need to cure, then you have to grout and let that dry before you can even do anything else.
No licensed contractor is going to remodel a bathroom for $2,000.. they have labor to pay, workers comp, taxes. You're talking a weeks worth of work. My labor is more than $2,000 a week on 2-3 man crew. If someone told me they'd give me a new bathroom for $2,000 in labor, I'd run the other direction as fast as possible. Code in just about every jurisdiction requires a licensed GC or plumber to set your surround, toilets, and vanity. My rundown on your situation here is that you should be doing the work yourself if possible to keep your budget within reach.
You're going to end up with poor workmanship and it's going to cost you more in the end. There's a difference between how much something is and what something costs. I do flips where the end goal is $120k but we're also getting these properties under $20k all in. Your main selling points will be the kitchen and the bathroom, don't skimp there. Badly cut trim, bad paint, etc will not be as noticeable but those two areas will sell a house by themselves. Don't get yourself into the habit of hiring beer money contractors, it will burn you in the end.
You don't need the most expensive guy but just get someone reputable and someone that is charging enough to be proud of their work and charging enough to make a living at the very least.
Ron,
With all due respect if it took 2 to 3 of your guys a week to redo that small bathroom, I'd never be able to use you on one of my flips.
Look at the tiles, they're all buckled. There is concrete board back there, there is plaster and lathe that is ugly looking and needs to be re-done with drywall. The framing is most likely rough cut so the drywall will need to be floated, when the walls come down you need to upgrade the electrical since I can also bet the electrical is not properly insulated, you need GFCI by sink, you have to have an arc fault breaker on the bathroom outlets and switches and those need to be on their own breaker by code.
There is a massive gob of caulk at the base of the tile and the wall, which most likely means that the floor has sunk by the toilet. You'll need to replace probably some of the toilet drain and replace the rotted lumber under the toilet, re-level the floor, etc. Or you can do it slumlord style and just put lipstick on a pig and let it be someone else's problem in the future. There are two kinds of flippers, the ones that want it done the right way and the ones that just slap it all together and have Crackhead Larry do the work for $300 and hope you don't get sued from the new property owner.
All of this stuff needs to be done in addition to replacement of the tub & shower surround which also by code must be set in concrete (no one ever does this) or it'll squeek, crack, and end up leaking. Each of these steps are limited by cure times, drywall mud prevents you from moving forward until it's sanded and dried at least 2 coats, the mortar for your tile & concrete for your tube need to cure, then you have to grout and let that dry before you can even do anything else.
Based on this reply. It seems, it would be best to just gut the bathroom and probably a lot of the other rooms and start from the studs.
No licensed contractor is going to remodel a bathroom for $2,000.. they have labor to pay, workers comp, taxes. You're talking a weeks worth of work. My labor is more than $2,000 a week on 2-3 man crew. If someone told me they'd give me a new bathroom for $2,000 in labor, I'd run the other direction as fast as possible. Code in just about every jurisdiction requires a licensed GC or plumber to set your surround, toilets, and vanity. My rundown on your situation here is that you should be doing the work yourself if possible to keep your budget within reach.
You're going to end up with poor workmanship and it's going to cost you more in the end. There's a difference between how much something is and what something costs. I do flips where the end goal is $120k but we're also getting these properties under $20k all in. Your main selling points will be the kitchen and the bathroom, don't skimp there. Badly cut trim, bad paint, etc will not be as noticeable but those two areas will sell a house by themselves. Don't get yourself into the habit of hiring beer money contractors, it will burn you in the end.
You don't need the most expensive guy but just get someone reputable and someone that is charging enough to be proud of their work and charging enough to make a living at the very least.
Ron,
With all due respect if it took 2 to 3 of your guys a week to redo that small bathroom, I'd never be able to use you on one of my flips.
Look at the tiles, they're all buckled. There is concrete board back there, there is plaster and lathe that is ugly looking and needs to be re-done with drywall. The framing is most likely rough cut so the drywall will need to be floated, when the walls come down you need to upgrade the electrical since I can also bet the electrical is not properly insulated, you need GFCI by sink, you have to have an arc fault breaker on the bathroom outlets and switches and those need to be on their own breaker by code.
There is a massive gob of caulk at the base of the tile and the wall, which most likely means that the floor has sunk by the toilet. You'll need to replace probably some of the toilet drain and replace the rotted lumber under the toilet, re-level the floor, etc. Or you can do it slumlord style and just put lipstick on a pig and let it be someone else's problem in the future. There are two kinds of flippers, the ones that want it done the right way and the ones that just slap it all together and have Crackhead Larry do the work for $300 and hope you don't get sued from the new property owner.
All of this stuff needs to be done in addition to replacement of the tub & shower surround which also by code must be set in concrete (no one ever does this) or it'll squeek, crack, and end up leaking. Each of these steps are limited by cure times, drywall mud prevents you from moving forward until it's sanded and dried at least 2 coats, the mortar for your tile & concrete for your tube need to cure, then you have to grout and let that dry before you can even do anything else.
Based on this reply. It seemed, it would be best to just demo the house and build ground up.
This is all required by code. You remove the tile and you HAVE To upgrade to Green board drywall, you remove the plaster and you HAVE to upgrade you electrical. You can put tile down on an un-level floor and it's going to crack and look like crap. You don't have to go crazy on your budget but no one on this forum should be condoning things be done not to code. You will end up spending 10x more if the code office finds out you did this all without a permit. They will make you rip everything right back out. My last post was about the time, not the cost.
@Phil Dodd lol. The flip is in North Carolina.
I'm in South Carolina with a home in the $120k range. Demoed the half bath myself last week with zero experience. Took a day to get it to the subfloor. I'll most likely get a subcontractor to replace the subfloor & add trim to be safe, but will easily be able to add flooring, fixtures and free standing vanity for remodel. Plumbing is simply buying a pipe wrench and taking the pieces to Lowe's to match. Bought a $2 pack of o-rings that fixed my leaking shut-off valves.
I'm not sharing this to say don't get a contractor, but more so as an encouragement in case you're feeling overwhelmed like I was a couple weeks ago. Until I got in there to look at it, got to work, and started pricing things (like the very well done list above), I was thinking it would cost me a lot more than it actually costs. Now I've gained some confidence and much needed experience as I go forward. Believing the same will be true for you!
@Tomiko Graves he’s either looking to provide you a luxury bathroom with high end everything or he’s looking to be in the profit zone from his 50% deposit.
@Tomiko Graves 13k is way to much! 13k is the value that you want to add not pay. I am redoing a bath and 1/2 and my total cost in parts is 3k
Granted I am doing all the work myself BUT 10K in time is just... No... Smh
Ways to cut cost.
Don,t tile- do a tub surround,reglaze tub. Or dont so as much tile, just around the tub. Use a shower curtain instead of the 500 dollar door. Not sure if just a shower would be cheaper. I think it can be less but the tile work is probably driving it up.