13K Bathroom Remodel - Help!

Washington, DC · Member since 2018 · 65 posts · 35 votes

Hi all!

I just walked through my first flip property (yay!) with my GC this morning. He is quoting me 13k on a small master bath. I think it's too much but would love to hear from some of you. If I pay 13k for this bathroom, I will be way over budget and will walk away with very little profit...

Here are the pics:

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Gary L Wallman

Rental Property Investor · Beavercreek OH · Member since 2018 · 422 posts · 970 votes

@Tomiko Graves

Tomiko, 13k seems off the chart to me. My expectations/experience:

New Vanity & Mirror Combo $250 at Home Depot

Vanity Light $85 at Lowes

New Toilet $150 at Lowes

LVP Flooring 100 sq. feet (tops) at 2.20 sq ft. = $220 at Menards

Tub $275 at Lowes

Tub surround $220 at Lowes

or Tub Porcelain tile surround 60 sq feet at 2.00 = $120 + mastic and grout $100 at Lowes

Faucets, towel racks, and such $300 at Lowes

So about $1500 in materials.

I'd normally pay about $300 for demo. $200 to lay the flooring, $1000 to set the vanity and vinyl tub with surround and $200 to hang light, mirror and towel racks. So $1700 for labor. Add about $400 more for the tile installation if your home requires that upgrade. Of course, then you'd save $220 on the unneeded surround.

All in for around $3700. You could easily escalate the price with nicer finishes and fancy showers. That seems unnecessary to me in your ARV range.

Keep in mind I live in the Midwest and prices here are pretty reasonable. Still $4k is way different then $13K. We do beautiful kitchens here for less then that outlandish price.

Good luck on your first flip!

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Deanna O.
Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2010 · 366 posts · 314 votes
7y
Are you are dealing with a "homeowner" GC rather than an "Investor" GC? It sounds like either there are serious structural issues, or the GC is trying to sell you on a custom "luxury bathroom" rather than the simple, clean solution you need at that price point. Tile also seems to be a high mark-up item that a lot of contractors try to push (it might last "forever" but it will be out of style in 10 years---remember avocado counters? harvest gold appliances?
2 Reply
Kim Lloyd
Rental Property Investor · Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2018 · 16 posts · 2 votes
7y
Hi Tomiko, my name is Kimberly and I flip properties also, that is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much. we just did a bathroom conversion with tile shower, tub in middle of room, built a closet for toilet, and so much more for 13k. You need to design the layout of what you want the bathroom to be, price the material yourself, and sub out as much as possible. The price is just insane.
1 Reply
Tony Brooks
Ypsilanti, MI · Member since 2017 · 16 posts · 9 votes
7y
$13k is high if its just cosmetics. Did he breakdown the scope of work so we can understand why he is pricing at this amount. Also you should get 3 to 4 bids on your project...I have seen some contractors overprice people they feel will pay the high price. Take what Gary wrote as the breakdown for your material list from my experience he is almost spot on with the numbers ... and ask the contractor what his labor will be to install. I am investor/contractor Its very easy to spend $13k on a bathroom if everything is high end...but for a $105k arv I would definitely stick to builder grade materials.
2 Reply
Tim Hall
Flipper/Rehabber · Tallahassee, FL · Member since 2014 · 462 posts · 237 votes
7y
@Tomiko Graves $13k on that bathroom, no way. Put bead board over the tile around the room. Paint the tile in the shower tub area, vinyl plank on the floor, new vanity and toilet. Maybe $4k at most. I have spent that amount on a master but I gutted it to the studs and it had a stand alone tub plus a shower stall with frameless glass doors custom double sinks ect ect it was double the size of that room. What’s he thinking about doing, gold floors and taps?
1 Reply
Bob Prisco
Specialist · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 666 votes
7y
@Dennis M. your opinion is 1000% correct !! 13K is ridiculous for a standard bath. The issue is these dam remodeling / flipping shows !! They are all so overpriced, I have wondered if the sponsors of the shows are national contractors.. $400 per sq for a roof, ARE YOU KIDDING!!! 210- 235 depending on pitch, includes all. avg roof 25- 30 sq, Take down a wall and install a header, ( GC scare the homeowner ) 5k, WHAT!!! its 2 , 2 x 12 ( or 10s or even 8s depending on size of opening ) nailed together, heck even if you need a micro , its still a few hundred and takes a day,,
Continued success
1 Reply
Adam M.
Rental Property Investor · Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2008 · 168 posts · 105 votes
7y
@Tomiko Graves That should be around $3K. I'd seriously fire that GC immediately if I were you. If he's quoting you that for the bathroom, he's going to try to bleed you on everything.
0 Reply
Armando Figueredo
Member since 2019 · 1 post · 0 votes
7y
@Tomiko Graves what area are you in? I’m a contractor Miami, Fl. I typically charge 5-6k for labor in a bathroom that size. This includes demo to studs and new Durock/Drywall, red guard waterproofing, finish and paint. As well as install of tile, tub, toilet, vanity and bathroom accessories. You would provide finish materials such as tile, toilet vanity etc... We also do complete packages for something this size typically around 10k for mid grade materials. His bid seems on the high side to me. Not sure what grade materials he is including and if there is beyond just minor electrical and plumbing that needs to be addressed. Again the area your in had a lot to do with pricing. I’m in big metro area more work and decent people to hire.
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Josh C.Pro Member
Property Manager · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
These 3k numbers are just not reasonable for someone far away. That’s a dude in a truck that has to put all of the material on your Lowe’s account cause he’s broke. 6-8k sounds in line for this situation. That should get a tile surround and mid range everything else.
2 Reply
Sergio AltomarePro Member
Rental Property Investor · Greater Philadelphia · Member since 2012 · 135 posts · 60 votes
7y
@Tomiko Graves I'm not sure what the ARV will be, but I did a flip on a $255k sale price property in a premier school district last year and spent less than 2k on the bathroom. If it's small and you can't make it bigger with a remodel then your return will be minimal. Consider replacing the toilet, vanity, light and mirror and then tiling over the floor and reglazing the rest of the tile. Neutral paint of course. See before and after pics of what I did.
The only other thing you may not notice is that we reversed the door to open out. This created the appearance of more space.
Podcast Guest on Show #545
2 Reply
Julie N.
Real Estate Investor · Unionville, CT · Member since 2016 · 260 posts · 167 votes
7y
@Tomiko Graves sorry voice text messed me up. I meant to say reglazed
0 Reply
Rob B.
Chicago, IL · Member since 2018 · 546 posts · 227 votes
7y
A lot of really great responses to this post already, @Tomiko Graves. I will add that you should get a pricing breakdown and save on the things that you can as far as rehab costs go; as long as you have a decent GC (check out their prior portfolio of work), they can make a good bathroom happen and should be willing to negotiate if they're truly trying to close this job. Again, definitely get that rehab cost breakdown. Best of luck! Excited to hear what you decide to do and looking forward to seeing the finished product!
Kindly,
Robert
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Account Closed
Property Manager · Winston Salem, NC · Member since 2016 · 63 posts · 27 votes
7y
@Tomiko Graves $15,000 is too high. You don't always get what you pay for like some say. That bathroom from the looks is very small. The price that I usually get is anywhere from $2-5 per square foot for tile. For those small tile on the bathroom tub every 6-8 tile are a square foot. Some people see that you bought a house and they see a opportunity. That close to a 84 percent mark up from the cost of material. Trust me when they start ripping things out they are going to come across "other" things and make suggestions on how they would do it to get top dollar. Are they putting up crown molding, scraping the ceiling to smooth it out, repainting walls, doing plumbing because the vanity is going to be two sinks and have to move the toilet over now?
IF your GC can't do a better price than that then find someone else to do the bathroom. You can keep him around for other jobs. Also remember that he is not your GC. He is his own boss and looks out for himself first and second.
I know new tile looks better but investigate to see if putting in new tile around the tub is worth it and if other homes are doing the same. If you are the only one in a certain radius that is selling then I would leave them. You don't have competitors.
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Mike Nelson
Investor · Oak Park, IL · Member since 2014 · 307 posts · 150 votes
7y
I just paid $13,000 for a gut rehab for my $550,000 residence in Oak Park IL. Work consisted of removing everything down to the studs and installing a ceramic tile shower stall with glass enclosure, new toilet, vanity, flooring, electrical, plumbing. etc. It is nothing fancy, with white/gray tile from Fleur Delacour. As projects often do, it grew from a simple tear out of the tub and replace shower to make it accessible. If you do that you "might as well" redo the wiring to code, not real complicated, but the electricians have a high hourly rate, but work efficiently and correctly. I got one bid for $35,000 from one contractor because he thought it might be challenging to run the toilet vents which would have to go through the second floor up to the roof. My contractor found a much simpler way, to code. I probably could have gotten the work done a little cheaper, but think I got good value. Alternatively, I have a handyman who does my rentals, who does all the trades, but the quality and scope would have been less. I have had him do rentals, reglazing a tub, removing and replacing ceramic tile tub surrounds, replacing toilet and vanity in same location with no major piping and electrical for less than $3,000. If you are lucky, you can find someone skilled who can do all the work for less than the $13,000 I paid in a rental.
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Aneisha LeMonier
Flipper/Rehabber · Van Buren, AR · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 3 votes
7y
You are looking at:
Toilet: $150-170 higher end
Vanity $500 (higher end)
Mirror $115 regular retail for this size
Tub $400- $800 depending on what you choose
Plumbing hardware for tub/sink $300
tile $1200 - $1600
These all have some built in labor/install. I think He is definitely high.
0 Reply
Brent Zande
Contractor · Cornelius, NC · Member since 2011 · 123 posts · 89 votes
7y
That seems like an over the top bathroom for a very modestly priced ARV. Many here have provided some good guidelines and it may be possible that the GC just does not know what level of finish you actually need to put in to sell at the number you want. The effort on your part may be some pictures of finished baths that provide the comps and then have it re-priced based on those concepts. Additionally, it always makes sense to get a few quotes with your GC's until you get a comfort level with them.
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Andy Pillinger
Kirkland, WA · Member since 2013 · 69 posts · 13 votes
7y
i think that if this is your first flip and your out of state its not clever to demo the bathroom. once the walls come down your GC will be licking his chops and that 13k will soon get up to 15K. dont take on too much when you dont know what you doing!
1 Reply
James De Stefano
Real Estate Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2017 · 290 posts · 233 votes
7y
Originally posted by @Matt M.:

I wish I knew where you guys get these cheap quotes. I just redid a 1/2 bath in my own home. The room is literally 4’ x 4.5’. It was a late 50’s tile floor and walls. It took me almost 18 hours to gut, 1700lbs to the dump. I spent $1500 start to finish, no crazy high end materials. No labor costs as I did it myself. I would have charged $4500 for this 1/2 bath.
Interesting... Thanks for this post. $4500 seems crazy for a 18 Sq. foot BR ! But you mention the 1950's build, and if it's a bottom to top gutting, I get it. Have there been other "surprises" or extra steps needed rehabs with that old of a home?
There are a few areas of Houston i've had my eye on with 1950/60's builds, and I've been gun shy picking them up because of reasons just like what you mentioned. Galvanized pipes, old/ out of code wires all over, and worries of lead paint/ asbestos just to name a few.
0 Reply
Codi Peterson
Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 3 votes
7y
@Tomiko Graves I would reach out to other real estate investors in your area and ask them what they pay. That’ll give you the most accurate picture of the market. Most people are more than happy to help, especially if you are just getting started. There are plenty of real estate investor networking groups out there.
1 Reply
Mindy JensenPro Member
BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
7y
@Tomiko Graves, Sometimes, a contractor is super busy, so they'll give a RIDICULOUS quote. If you agree to pay that super high quote, they'll definitely find time to work you into the schedule.
Continue to get quotes - and ask exactly what that quote covers so you can compare apples to apples.
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1 Reply
David GreeneBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · San Francisco Bay Area, CA · Member since 2012 · 225 posts · 266 votes
7y
@Account Closed thanks for the mention! I've done several long distance flips myself. They aren't any different than when I do a local flip (I don't do anything special when it's local compared to long distance). In my experience when a deal like this goes bad it's because of the people involved, not the location.
Podcast Guest on Show #12
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Jermain Martin
Contractor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 4 posts · 1 vote
7y
@Tomiko Graves well overpriced. The bathroom pictured doesn’t seem to be in that bad of a shape. It seems to only need an esthetic upgrade with all of your custom requests. Tops $7k.
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Account Closed
Member since 2021 · 1 post · 0 votes
5y
I would check in with these guys, I had a similar problem they were able to help me. https://modernkitchenva.com/ne...
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