BRRRR Success AND Failure - Lessons Learned in 2019

BRRRR Success AND Failure - Lessons Learned in 2019

Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 251 posts · 224 votes

Hi All, 

Just wanted to post my experience with BRRRR method. I invested in Lansing, MI. I am originally from Grand Rapids, MI and currently live out of state in MN. Below is my 2019 experience jumping into real estate. LLong post ahead. Hopefully I cover the main points fully. So please follow up if you have any questions!

To get the capital for below it was a mix of savings and a HELOC on my primary residence.

TL;DR In 2019 I purchased a SFR and a Duplex in Lansing, MI. My first property was a fail due to an expensive rehab and margins that are way too slim. The duplex was for the most part a success. I was able to cash out most of my money and have a pretty good cash flowing property. I bolded my mistakes below. I probably made several more, these are just the ones that come to mind.

I will start with the BRRRR FAIL. In March 2019, I purchased a 3/1 SFR in Northwest Lansing. The purchase price was $35000. Based on my analysis at the time, I thought the property would be worth $52000 after rehab. Based on the photos of the home, I had thought it was a pretty easy rehab with simply replacing the water heater, paint, and some other cosmetic updates here are there. I had a estimated a budget of ~$5k for repairs. Of course this was too good to be true and I was antsy to purchase my first property so I pulled the trigger.

I used a conventional loan from a local credit union, Michigan State Federal Credit Union. 20% down. 

MISTAKE#1 Closing Costs are EXPENSIVE. In my numbers, I did not budget for closing costs. Those came in around $3k for this purchase. 

Once I closed and got on the property, I walked the house with the contractor I planned to use. What I couldn't see in the photos were the shoddy workmanship the previous owners had done. There was lots of issues with the trim looking terrible, floors laid poorly (big gaps on sides), doors and walls in bad shape here and there Random door from a bedroom closet to the hallway (lol why?). Crap panelling just tossed on the wall. I didn't feel comfortable renting a property in this condition. 

MISTAKE#2 video walkthrough or better photos could have avoided this. 

Now once the rehab started, we realized there was some structural issues with one wall, there was extensive wall damage due to poor plumbing in the bathroom. This left me with rehabbing the whole bathroom instead of cosmetic update. This was just unfortunate. All in all, rehab ended up around $12-13k after painting. 

MISTAKE #3 I was working with a Contractor I liked. He completed the job within a reasonable time. His quality was pretty good, but I never got a second or third quote for the work. I am realizing he is pricy after the fact now. 

Rent: This property is rented for $760 to Section 8. This is lower than I was predicted for rent, but I just wanted it rented at that point. 

Refi: I used the same credit union to refi. They do 75% loan to value. Rough numbers below:

$53000 (appraised value) 
X .75 (LTV)
= 39750 (Loan Amount)
- $3000 (closing cost on refi)
- ~$28000 (existing loan amount)
= ~$9000 (cash out back to me)

All in all, this property was a FAIL. I was stuck with about $13-$14k in the property. It isnt renting for what I had hoped. Not to mentioned I had to replace the furnace I was hoping would last another year or two this past winter. 

So, onto the BRRRR SUCCESS. In July 2019, I purchased a SFH converted into a duplex. This is in the Old Everett - Greencroft Park neighborhood. Bottom unit is a 2/1. Top unit is a 1/1.

Purchase Price: $29500. This was listed at $45k. I tossed out my offer and due to their circumstances, they accepted it with no comeback. 

This house was in pretty rough shape. The upstairs unit looked decent. Had recent laminate flooring, but needed paint, new bathroom floor, new toilet. The downstairs needed all new flooring, new cabinets, new appliances, new drywall. Also some roofing needed patching. Some plumbing needed fixing. etc. Based off my assumptions, I thought this home would be appraised on the bright side $70k. On the low side, $55k. 

So trying to take some lessons learned from my first property, as part of inspection, I had two contractors supply a bid for the property. This ended up working out okay. I was okay with a rehab budget up to $10k. MISTAKE#4 There was a severe miscommunication with my contractor about his bid being labor only. I should have known that his bid was too low to be Materials + Labor. I learned the hard way about a mismanaged project and how it affects timelines. This was a decent size project, but it took 3+ months which seems much too excessive. MISTAKE#5 Poor project management should have been identified and fixed immediately. Shouldn't let a contractor take this long. MISTAKE#6 Scope creep was real in the project. Small things just added up one after another. Moving outlets into the wall, issues with hvac vents, extensive roof patching, new doors, etc. 

Rehab ended up ~$15000.

By late December , the property was rented. Total rent is $1400 for the two units. 

I am in the refinance process now with closing anticipated in the next week or so. I just got the appraisal back last week at $40,000!! Which is outrageous because the house in disrepairs was appraised at $33,000. I sent my loan officer an email with my disagreements and reasoning. Revised appraisal came back today at $64,000, which was soo much better. 

My refinance was again through MSUFCU. Rough numbers expected below.

$64000 (appraised value)
x .75 (LTV)
= $48,000
- ~23000 (loan balance)
- ~3000 (refi closing costs)
= $21-$22000 (cash out amount)

My all in was around $25k so I am ecstatic with the amount of money I have left in this deal. 

Although, with the good news of the appraisal coming in at $64000, I got bad news that city inspection came up with some plumbing fixes needed. That will cost $1200. 

My next steps: Add a second electrical circuit breaker to the duplex to accommodate baseboard heaters so i can split the heat utility in my duplex. Quote is about $2000 for this. Even with the last expenses I still consider the duplex a success. 

For 2020, I am planning on spending Q1 & Q2 regrouping my savings and reevaluating the path forward then. 

Apologies if this was scatterered, I just realized how hard it was to write a year long recap after I had already committed. haha

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Most Popular Reply

Haiku, HI · Member since 2011 · 50 posts · 19 votes
6y

@Sean Sloop

1400 rent for the duplex with 45k into it? That is impressive, keep it up !!

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 50 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop thanks for being transparent and with showing your failures and successes!

  • Investor · 49601 · Member since 2020 · 17 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop would love to connect and talk strategies.

  • Lake Elsinore, CA · Member since 2018 · 235 posts · 300 votes
    6y

    Great story! It's good to see you weren't discouraged and moved on to the next opportunity! 

  • Haiku, HI · Member since 2011 · 50 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop

    1400 rent for the duplex with 45k into it? That is impressive, keep it up !!

  • New to Real Estate · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2017 · 8 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop

    This is good stuff. I'm currently in the rehab process of my first BRRRR also in Lansing, MI. Learning alot and making little but I knew that from the beginning. Would love to get in touch and ask you a couple of questions

    -Sam

  • Whitney HuttenPro Member
    Investor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop Thank you for sharing. Any BRRRR investor has had one (or more!) go not as planned. Keep it up and adjust your systems to get better and better with each transaction!

  • Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 26 votes
    6y

    Great stuff - would love to dive into this a little deeper with you. 

  • New to Real Estate · Saratoga Spgs, NY · Member since 2018 · 13 posts · 5 votes
    6y

    Thanks @Sean Sloop Would you be willing to share a version of the offer letter that you used that was accepted right away on your second deal?

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 251 posts · 224 votes
    6y

    @Sam Rockafellow @Joseph Koury feel free to connect with me and send a message

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 251 posts · 224 votes
    6y

    @Aaron OCallahan this was just a normal offer from my realtor. This was on the MLS and the house was listed for a long time.

    For me this was a lesson that it doesn't hurt to make offers!

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 251 posts · 224 votes
    6y

    @Andrew Elliott feel free to connect with and and send me a message!

  • Lender · United States · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 499 votes
    6y

    The moment I hear "Section 8", I lose interest. People who have a majority of their rent/bills paid by the government are less likely to keep care of the property and are more likely to have criminal activity at/around the property.

  • Lender · Member since 2020 · 89 posts · 69 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop Sorry to hear the first experience was a fail. Take it as a lesson learned and move on to the next. Savings for those unexpected repairs, etc is a must. I believe the 2-4 unit property investments are a safer route although sometime there are not enough comps for the appraisal. 

  • Lender · Member since 2020 · 89 posts · 69 votes
    6y

    The most important aspect of any BRRRR deal is the buy. You need to get a great deal on an undervalued property for this to work and put a little lipstick instead of extensive repairs. Come up with a conservative estimate then its rent ready.

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 251 posts · 224 votes
    6y

    @Timothy Hero I think we should avoid generalizing a large group of people due to the financial circumstances they are in.

  • Lender · United States · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 499 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Sean Sloop:

    @Timothy Hero I think we should avoid generalizing a large group of people due to the financial circumstances they are in.

    I didn’t say all and I’m speaking from experience. And I’ve met people who make enough to cover all their bills from their job, yet the government still covers 70% of their rent.


    it’s not a matter of “the financial situation they’re in”.


    When people don’t have to pay for something, they are more likely to not keep care of it.


    In terms of my crime comment, drive around. Where is the most Section8 housing at? The ghetto. Where is the most crime at? The ghetto.

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 251 posts · 224 votes
    6y

    @Jenny Roman I absolutely agree that buy is the most important. For the first property, I significantly over paid for the strategy. Of course, most of my lessons learned were on the repair side which kind of got me in both houses.

  • Lender · Member since 2020 · 89 posts · 69 votes
    6y

    I could imagine, always be conservative and just put a little lipstick on the house that’s it

  • Rental Property Investor · Queens, NY · Member since 2019 · 50 posts · 33 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop thanks for sharing. Closing costs catch a lot of first time home buyers by surprise, so you are not alone.

  • Lender · Member since 2020 · 89 posts · 69 votes
    6y

    That is why you need to associate with a transparent company That will not have any surprises at the back end of the deal. Granted, we all need to keep our shops open and therefore processing fees and minimal costs are charged but we are more interested in the long term relationship in which we mutually benefit each other. I am vested in your success long-term.

  • Member since 2020 · 10 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop looking to dive in to BRRRR this year, and appreciate the story and lessons learned!

  • Lender · Topeka, KS · Member since 2020 · 50 posts · 81 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Sean Sloop:

    Hi All, 

    Just wanted to post my experience with BRRRR method. I invested in Lansing, MI. I am originally from Grand Rapids, MI and currently live out of state in MN. Below is my 2019 experience jumping into real estate. LLong post ahead. Hopefully I cover the main points fully. So please follow up if you have any questions!

    Lot's of great info here, Sean!

    Thanks for sharing your story. It gives us starting out a little bit of insight and can help us learn from your mistakes. I'm sure I'll be making plenty of my own. But, If I can learn from yours I will!

    Thanks again for your transparency. Glad to hear the multi is going well!
    Hoping for more success for you in the last 2 quarters of 2020!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Memphis, TN · Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop Wow! Thank you for sharing your experience. So many good lessons here. I am currently interested in doing the BRRRR method in my local market. (Memphis, TN) It's so inspiring that you were able to find a BRRRR right off the MLS! Curious how much time and how many low ball offers you made before you found one. I am also interested in Section 8 and would love to hear your experience with it so far. I thought that Section 8 covered the entire rent, but then I read an article saying that it only covered a portion. Hoping that you or someone on this thread could clear that up for me.

  • Chatsworth, NJ · Member since 2019 · 10 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop the first deal interests me. I ran the numbers and am confused about what was promising about applying the BRRRR strategy for that property. Aren't we taught to limit our "all in" to be no more than 65-70% of ARV? The numbers for me don't add up as 70% of $52,000 is $36k and some change. Your purchase price + reno costs alone took you above $41k, not to account for closing, holding, and contingency costs. What appealed to you about this deal?

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 251 posts · 224 votes
    6y

    @Hannah Singer hey Hannah, my criteria was pretty specific on the second home. Maybe offered on 4-5 before this one.

    As far as section 8, I am comfortable providing section 8 as my PM has extensive experience working with section 8 renters. I focused on providing a good home that I was proud of regardless of who my renter was.

    And yes, section 8 covers a large percentage of the rent!

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