How to sell a unique property (ADU duplex in Los Angeles)

How to sell a unique property (ADU duplex in Los Angeles)

Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 184 posts · 162 votes

Hello! My wife and I bought a 3 bed 1 bath well maintained sfh in a great area of LA four years ago as the market was rising. Both sets of parents contributed to the down payment. Then California passed the law legalizing Accessory Dwelling Unit's (ADU's) in January 2016. Seeing the opportunity I secured additional funding and we are 6-8 weeks away from the ADU completion. Here's the thing, it is 1180 sq ft, 3 bed 2.5 bath ADU. Original plan was to house hack and live in the new house and rent out the front until recently when we decided it is time to leave LA and move to Columbus, Ohio where my wife's family lives and where we have more social support and lower cost of living and less congestion - LA is a beautiful and exciting place, but insane to raise a family. There is nothing like our property on the market (yet) as the vast majority of people doing ADU's simply convert garages and maybe build out to 600-800 sq ft. So, very soon I will have 'two on a lot' yet it is zoned R1 single family. I've spoken to two different appraisers in my area who have ADU experience and they scratched their heads and didn't know what to tell me since there is nothing like it out there. Since the lot is R1 it cannot be compared to duplexes they say. Any advice about selling unique properties that do not fit into traditional market boxes?

Other helpful details: 

Purchase price in 2016: 755k

Median market value today for original house: 950k

ADU construction costs: 300k

Estimated value after ADU is completed: 1.3-1.4m. But not sure. New flips that are 3 bed 2 bath that are 1,700 sq ft sell for 1.35-1.45m in our neighborhood and small 3 bed 1 bath homes sell for 950k median in our area. We already had an interested buyer willing to offer 1.35m before their funding fell through, but that was the top of his loan limit.

Bottom of market rents: 3,500 for older front house and 4,500 for new ADU/8k per mo

We debated whether to keep it as a rental or sell it. The numbers didn't seem to add up to keep it as a rental. After refinancing our payment would be about 7k per mo, plus taxes, insurance, repairs and property management (since we will be out of state) expenses seem to be about 9.5k per mo with rents right now likely being around 8k, but increasing over time as Google and Facebook have offices 2 miles away, giving our area the nickname 'Silicon Beach.' So doesn't look like we will be cash flowing on it. I'm sure it will appreciate well over time since ADU's are still new and in 5 years there will be more properties to compare it to for appraisers - but we are not comfortable with covering vacancy costs that could be up to 7k per mo. So, selling and cashing out on 300-400k and re-investing seems like the smarter move at this point (I am considering ways to invest the money, but that's for a future post as I need to get the property sold in the first place). I am open to advice and thoughts to think about my situation in ways I have not thought of before. Thanks!

3Reply
136 views

Most Popular Reply

Dan H.Pro Member
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Luis Lopez Valencia:

@Dan Heuschele

NOI is ~$40,000 conservative at $3790 gross monthly for the property. Main 3/2 home market rent is $1995, 3/1 ADU market rent is $1795.

Very good point, appraisal is going to be our main consideration. That being said, we decided to proceed with the build as our office has a ton of all cash buyers looking for a home for their money. What cap rate would you use and what do you think you'd value the property at? Excited to hear your thoughts

That is, at best, a projected NOI because you have not obtained that income yet. NOI is not set on projected rents. It is established by actual income achieved.

$5480 of expenses seems very optimistic on 2 units. The prop tax alone at 1.1% (I use a conservative 1.25% in my projections but am using low value to depict the operating expense flaw) at a $400K assessed value would be $4,400. That leaves just over $1K for all other expenses. I expect the insurance on a SFR with ADU will be about that cost. That leaves nothing allocated for the other costs.

I suspect you are going to find it difficult for someone to accept a cap rate evaluation because 1) their financing will not be based on a cap rate evaluation 2) you do not have the actual NOI that would allow a cap rate valuation.

The cap rate valuation is not likely to work even if you had NOI because this RE does not require commercial financing. A very large percentage of the purchasers will want to use conventional financing which does not use cap rates.

Use actual comps to obtain the valuation.  It will likely save you from being disappointed at the time to sell.

Good luck

See this reply in the discussion

42 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    6y

    I am from San Diego, LA may be different.

    My original protégé recently attempted to sell an RE with a detached ~700' ADU (so smaller than yours). He set a price that seemed reasonable and was valuing the ADU at below hands off cost of construction but was slow to get an offer (My guess was ~3 months to get the offer). He eventually did get an offer at virtually the ask price; he was not a highly motivated seller so he was going to get close to ask or keep the RE.

    The financing appraisal came in significantly under the agreed price. Because of lack of comps, it was based on adjustments from SFR. The appraisal valued the ADU far below cost of constructing the unit. I did not hear how the issue was resolved but he did sell the property. I do not know if he ended up lowering his price or if the seller brought more cash or a combination.

    I am not optimistic that you are going to receive the valuation that you are expecting.  Hopefully I am incorrect.

  • Nabil SuleimanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 596 posts · 299 votes
    6y

    @Justin Gottuso

    Hi Justin, 

    Part of it has to do with understanding how appraisers and lenders work and ways to sometimes work with them in order to make the situation make sense to them. Ive sold a few homes now with ADU's around LA/Mid city, and almost every time its an educational opportunity for everyone involved. It is something new to everyone, but there are always ways to have it make sense to the lender and the appraiser so it doesn't become an issue when you get a top dollar offer. Ill PM you an address of one recently and you won't find any homes near it that would qualify as a "normal" comp.

  • Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 184 posts · 162 votes
    6y

    @Dan Heuschele

    Thanks for the insights! I’m hoping with our prime location the right buyer will see the value and be able to understand and make a solid offer and close the deal!

  • Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 184 posts · 162 votes
    6y

    @Nabil Suleiman

    Thanks so much for sharing! Yes, everyone is learning about ADU's. I'm happy to hear you've had some positive experiences and have been able to help educate appraisers and lenders. I'm been stressing over the appraisal lately and would like to learn more from you.

  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Justin Gottuso:

    @Dan Heuschele

    Thanks for the insights! I’m hoping with our prime location the right buyer will see the value and be able to understand and make a solid offer and close the deal!

    My protege had a buyer that was willing to pay his price.  The issue was that the offer had a financing contingency.  Without the appraisal matching or exceeding the offer, standard financing is not available. 

    So you need a buyer to make the offer but you also need an appraiser to see the value or a buyer willing to bring additional cash to the close. I fear the appraisal may come in low. 

    Good luck

  • Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 184 posts · 162 votes
    6y

    @Dan Heuschele

    Thank you! That’s what I’m concerned about too, low appraisal. I know there are some people who will have the cash to make up the difference between asking price and appraisal, if it is indeed low, but I’ll keep going and find a way to get it done.

    How did you get into real estate investing? What has been a valuable lesson you have learned along the way?

  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Justin Gottuso:

    @Dan Heuschele

    Thank you! That’s what I’m concerned about too, low appraisal. I know there are some people who will have the cash to make up the difference between asking price and appraisal, if it is indeed low, but I’ll keep going and find a way to get it done.

    How did you get into real estate investing? What has been a valuable lesson you have learned along the way?

     My mom got me started.  She had near minimum wage job but was able to obtain private financing to purchase a rental when I was a teen.  We (my brother and I) assisted in every tenant turn over and did virtually all repairs ourselves.  It showed me the value of appreciation and leverage. When I started, I had the same hands on approach to maintenance/repairs.   Until around 10 units I did all maintenance/repairs. 

    The first lesson may still be the number one lesson. Leverage and appreciation can be incredible wealth generators. I will add that I believe the current/new ADU regulations provide a new opportunity that will make some people a lot of money.

    Good luck

  • Real Estate Agent · Inglewood, CA · Member since 2015 · 295 posts · 150 votes
    6y

    My most recent experience selling a SFR with ADU in Carson Ca resulted in a 30k price reduction for my buyer. There were no true comps and the appraiser gave the permitted ADU no value as a unit or even as livable sq ft. The seller was going to relist the property, assuming they could get a conventional buyer to pay more and I coordinated with my lender to order conventional (5% down) appraisal which surprisingly came in for less. We went with the FHA appraisal and closed successfully.

    A few takeaways: My client was shopping for SFR with ADUs and some agents specified that you need a lender with ADU experience; not certain what this means but I'm assuming they want lenders with appraisers who know how to properly value as my lender has ADU experience but it only benefited my buyer. I have a colleague in LA who flips SFR's in the $800k-1mill range (with ADU's and they have never came in under value

    FHA loan guidlelines do not give detached ADU's value.

    Though ADUs produce income, lenders cannot use the income to assist with approval as they can rents for a duplex.

  • Investor · Bothell, WA · Member since 2015 · 214 posts · 104 votes
    6y

    Instead of selling, can you cashout refi and then just keep it as a rental?

  • Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 184 posts · 162 votes
    6y

    @Dan Heuschele

    Hey Dan thanks for sharing! Your mom sounds awesome, someone who pushed forward and did things beyond herself for the sake of her family (you and your brother). Great role model. Seems like you learned the trade and have carried it on, and expanded on what she started :-)

  • Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 184 posts · 162 votes
    6y

    @Clarence Johnson

    Very helpful information! Yea the super nice flips and rebuilt properties I see with ADU's sell high/likely appraised well and I imagine their connections or creativity help them come out on top. I'm trying to learn from others who have gone down this path to understand ways to get a fair appraisal.

    Good to know FHA loans don't recognize ADU's at all.

    Will come down to finding the right buyer at the right price I think.

    Thanks for sharing

  • Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 184 posts · 162 votes
    6y

    @Fay Chen

    Thought about this but the risk of the 7k per month mortgage after we'd refinance is too much for us to bear at this point (I.e vacancies and unexpected events/repairs). The property will appreciate over time no doubt, especially as more ADU's are sold, but at this stage in our life/young family, having good amount of cash from the sale and re-investing in the Midwest where prices are much lower/less financial risk seems to be the way forward for us. But part of me might kick myself for selling a prime property in west Los Angeles...

  • Real Estate Agent · Inglewood, CA · Member since 2015 · 295 posts · 150 votes
    6y

    @Justin Gottuso just revisited your original post, why is the ADU $300k? I have seen ground up construction of 2 bed 2 baths for under $150k. Also, when are you moving to Columbus, I hear great things about that market and plan to visit soon.

  • Escrow Officer · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 17 votes
    6y

    @Justin Gottuso

    Our local chapter of the women’s council of realtors just put on an adu event. I’m checking to see if we had an experienced appraiser there. Please standby

  • Rental Property Investor · CA · Member since 2019 · 84 posts · 50 votes
    6y

    I've had some similar clients. I would advertise the home with Cap Rate and monthly rents vs just a SFR with an ADU. I would put that up front so investors also know what they're looking at. ALSO, I would ensure that your agent advertises the home as MultiFamily so it pops up on more investors radar.

    Also, Ensure that you've negotiated a flat fee for selling, it's insanely easy to sell these days with the market roaring. I wouldn't pay more than 10K for the listing agent fee. Keep buyers agent at 2%. 

  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Clarence Johnson:

    @Justin Gottuso just revisited your original post, why is the ADU $300k? I have seen ground up construction of 2 bed 2 baths for under $150k. Also, when are you moving to Columbus, I hear great things about that market and plan to visit soon.  

     Columbus is great!

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Will the units have separate meters for water, power or gas? How close to they conform to being a duplex? 

    Like you mentioned most doing ADU's are keeping the properties so there are few data points for appraisers and they haven't yet received guidelines on how to approach them. You've got the simple garage conversions and new constructions with their own meters. It can be so different and they don't know what to do yet. So they're playing it safe.

    Until whoever supports appraisers gives them the green light to approach this differently, they're treating these homes as SFR's with small adjustments for the ADU's.

  • Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 184 posts · 162 votes
    6y

    @Tim G.

    Right on. That’s clearly what’s happening.

  • Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 184 posts · 162 votes
    6y

    @Mel Anic

    Great ideas! Yes we plan to list it on LoopNet as multi family.

    My agent is taking 2% but good idea to take 2% from buyers agent too. Really adds up when it’s over 1M!

  • Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 184 posts · 162 votes
    6y

    @Charity Skore

    Thanks! Please let me know!

  • Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 184 posts · 162 votes
    6y

    @Clarence Johnson

    300k is factoring in another private loan we had taken out that we are paying back with the sale. It’s just north of 200k.

  • Investor · Bothell, WA · Member since 2015 · 214 posts · 104 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Justin Gottuso:

    @Fay Chen

    Thought about this but the risk of the 7k per month mortgage after we'd refinance is too much for us to bear at this point (I.e vacancies and unexpected events/repairs). The property will appreciate over time no doubt, especially as more ADU's are sold, but at this stage in our life/young family, having good amount of cash from the sale and re-investing in the Midwest where prices are much lower/less financial risk seems to be the way forward for us. But part of me might kick myself for selling a prime property in west Los Angeles...

    Don't beat yourself up for making the most profitable decision. This is more of a personal finance decision than a business decision. The whole point of investing in real estate is to provide a good life for your family. So even if the probably will appreciate a lot in 5 years, but keeping it may put constant strain on your young family. Is it worth it? If not, then I suggest looking for a good agent. Maybe someone who's been around a while in LA and works with investors and/or foreign buyers, as they are more likely to have cash.

  • Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 184 posts · 162 votes
    6y

    @Fay Chen

    Thanks for your encouragement! It’s been stressful thinking about renting it out vs selling. But it’s still clear to us now that selling is the path forward. I’ve learned a LOT from this experience and if it indeed sells near what we will list for it will be life changing and a huge blessing to our family, taking us from house poor to being able to afford our life and start investing on our own. Which is so exciting!

    What do you focus on in real estate and why? What’s been your best (and worst) investment so far?

  • Investor · Bothell, WA · Member since 2015 · 214 posts · 104 votes
    6y

    @Justin Gottuso I focus more on long-term buy and hold and cash flow. My main goal is to achieve financial independence while enjoying life. So I guess it's what they call "fat FIRE." So far, I've been just buying properties with the intention to never sell unless I have to. I ran some analysis a few months back where I discovered that the cost associated with selling & 1031 roughly reduces the short-term return by 3% annually. So I decided to hold on to my properties and just refi as long as I can. That being said, my husband and I are very fortunate to be in a position to do that because we both have stable W-2 jobs. 

    So far my real estate investments have been doing pretty well. Some took longer than others to turn profitable, but each has taught me something that I've used to improve my business. Different properties fulfill different purposes within the portfolio, so I can't say which one is best yet or at least until they are sold. My worst investment is a little matcha shop I invested in with my friend. It ended up closing after 1 year and I lost 50% of my investment. The total investment was less than 5% of my portfolio so it's not as bad. I guess it would be the "question mark" of the growth/share matrix.

  • Realtor · Los Angeles · Member since 2018 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    Hi guys,

    Glad this topic was brought up. I'm currently building out a 3/1 1005 Sq ft ADU in Riverside with it's own separate gas & electrical meter (same water meter). Main home is a complete remodel 3/2 1500 sq ft. Value as just SFR is ~350k. Had a discussion with an appraiser that came into our office and he said appraisers are meeting in Northern CA to discuss how to value these ADU's. His take was on valuing the ADU at cost of construction plus a "hassle" factor. In my case it would be the ~90k construction costs plus what he sees fit as a hassle factor. His estimate on value would be 440k. I initially had a lender appraise the property to see what he could do on a refinance and he came out to ~380k with the ADU completed. Again lack of comps being the reason. This lender advised I not risk over building and just refinance or sell the main home. I feel the location, 3 mins from Downtown Riverside, 5 mins from UCR, right in front of an elementary school will help me net more money from a sale as opposed to what their appraisals are coming in at. The nearest comp is a 2 smaller homes on a lot duplex at 495k(zoned R2). Promoting it as multifamily housing and with a cap rate is the best idea to get it in front of the right buyer who can come up with the difference and cash to close. Thank you guys for discussing this at length and good luck with your sales! Excited to see the end results

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.