First Deal = $1600+ Cash Flow!!

First Deal = $1600+ Cash Flow!!

Investor 路 MI 路 Member since 2019 路 112 posts 路 221 votes

Hi! I wrote a post 4 months ago asking what you all would do in our situation -- sell or keep our Seattle house. Several of you commented and it really helped us solidify our decision, so thanks to all who commented! Here is the post for reference: https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

Well, we decided to sell the house and it sold for way over what we expected and we walked away with zero regrets and a huge chunk of money to invest with. Fast forward and we now have a 6 unit townhouse building in Michigan (near where we live now) that cash flows $1600 after all expenses including property management and this is with 5 of the units still at $150-$350 below market rents. Three of the units are 3 bedrooms, 2 half baths + 1 full bath and two of the units are 2 bedrooms, 1 half bath + 1 full bath. 

The property had been on the market for 2 years, but when we ran the numbers it looked like you could cash flow without changing anything, so we couldn't figure out why it was still on the market. The listing agent told us that he gets multiple calls per week about it, but that the seller just will not budge on price. It sounded like people kept offering lower and he kept saying no. 

So, knowing this info and knowing that it would cash flow for us at full price, we made him an offer. We said we would give him 290K (he had it listed at 297K) with 40K down if he would do seller financing. He came back and said yes to seller financing at 5% interest (which we couldn't believe since we heard seller financing is usually a higher interest rate). And then we negotiated a 20 year amortization schedule (and he wanted a 5 year balloon payment).

There were 5 full units and 1 vacant. We did some remodeling in the vacant one (spent about 8K on floors, painting, new vanity in a bathroom, and redid kitchen that we hired out and my husband is a master electrician so he put in new switches and fixed any lighting issues and a couple other little things) and we put it at market rent. Old owner was charging $625 for the 3 bedroom and market rent is $966. We are working on raising rents for the other 5 units over the next few months $25-$50. All of the tenants were on month-to-month and had all been living there at least for 2 years. 

The previous owner mostly took care of the outside, but the interior is pretty dated and there are a lot of little things to do. Our property manager toured each unit with each tenant and asked about any issues. The only big thing was that one tenant had been living with bedbugs for almost 2 years since she moved in. I lost my mind over this because of psychological trauma from having bedbugs in a hotel room when I was in Nepal and I ended up in the hospital, but that's a story for another day haha. Anyway, she said the landlord told her if she called an exterminator, he would evict her. So crazy! She had powders and spray that she was trying to use. Her unit was otherwise very clean and I seriously wanted to cry for her that she had been living with them for so long. Luckily, the exterminator found no evidence of them in any other unit and it was only $980 for the guaranteed treatment. I thought for sure it would be more. Anyway, that was our only big issue coming in and she was so grateful that we were willing to take care of it. 

So, each time someone decides to move out, we will remodel another unit. What I love about seller financing is that we don't have to cash-out refi once we get the appreciation up and are ready to get a mortgage on it to get our cash back out--it's just getting a first mortgage on it at 80% LTV with our credit union. We should be able to get our money back pretty easily between 12-18 months. I love how with commercial, the value of the property goes up when the NOI goes up and the previous landlord had the rents so low, that has been easy to get the NOI up!

So, for now, we are cash flowing $1600 and we expect to be at $1800 cash flow by the end of the year. This is obviously if no huge maintenance issues come up and if someone moves out, the potential for cash flow goes up even more. 

That's the story of my first deal (if you don't include our primary home turned airbnb turned sold for investing)! 

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Rental Property Investor 路 NJ and PA 路 Member since 2019 路 206 posts 路 105 votes
5y
Originally posted by @Nikki Closser:

@Leslie A. I need to research that a bit more. I had 5% of gross rents down, but I鈥檇 rather be conservative with it. And I never would have known about seller financing if it hadn鈥檛 been for listening to so many BP podcast episodes! 馃槀 

First, congratulations on your success by being creative where nobody else could see a good deal at approximately asking price. What a great accomplishment!

I often see people using a percentage of the gross rents as an estimate for repairs & maintenance. That doesn't make sense to me. Better to just estimate a dollar figure. If you have two similar properties and one has higher rents than the other, is there a difference in repair costs? In fact, the more you've updated a property, the more you collect and the less is left to repair. If you buy a property in barely rentable condition and charge $600 rent, then you update it significantly and then charge $800 rent, should your estimate for repair costs increase or decrease? Or for that matter, should repairs be the same percentage of rent in Seattle as in Michigan? I don't have a good number to tell you to estimate (it depends on the condition, how may things can go wrongs etc.), but it shouldn't be a percentage of the rent. 

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  • Real Estate Investor 路 Houston, TX 路 Member since 2010 路 499 posts 路 206 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Gary Parilis:
    Originally posted by @Leslie A.:
    Originally posted by @Gary Parilis:
    Originally posted by @Nikki Closser:

    @Leslie A. I need to research that a bit more. I had 5% of gross rents down, but I鈥檇 rather be conservative with it. And I never would have known about seller financing if it hadn鈥檛 been for listening to so many BP podcast episodes! 馃槀 

    First, congratulations on your success by being creative where nobody else could see a good deal at approximately asking price. What a great accomplishment!

    I often see people using a percentage of the gross rents as an estimate for repairs & maintenance. That doesn't make sense to me. Better to just estimate a dollar figure. If you have two similar properties and one has higher rents than the other, is there a difference in repair costs? In fact, the more you've updated a property, the more you collect and the less is left to repair. If you buy a property in barely rentable condition and charge $600 rent, then you update it significantly and then charge $800 rent, should your estimate for repair costs increase or decrease? Or for that matter, should repairs be the same percentage of rent in Seattle as in Michigan? I don't have a good number to tell you to estimate (it depends on the condition, how may things can go wrongs etc.), but it shouldn't be a percentage of the rent. 

     You have to get a dollar figure from somewhere. Getting the records of the previous owner would be one way and a percentage would be another way. What do you suggest?  Pulling a figure from the air?  

    Records of the previous owner is a good idea if you can get it. Otherwise, it's just a matter of experience. If you have a general idea what percentage is typical with other properties in a particular market, that's a reasonable place to start, but then you still have to adjust for the condition of the property (and other attributes such as how many bathrooms). A general rule of thumb I was once given by an agent (in a market where buildings tend to be 100 years old) is $1300 for SFH, $2300 for duplex, $3050 for triplex, $3800 for 4-plex, and $750 for each add'l unit -- annually. Personally, I think these are high, but I start by thinking about these numbers and then adjust downward according to the condition and thinking about of what things might go wrong, or what things have already been replaced or repaired. There's no simple answer, but just using a blanket percentage will result in the wrong number more often than not.


    All right.  That makes sense  Thanks for the info  

  • Investor 路 MI 路 Member since 2019 路 112 posts 路 221 votes
    5y

    @Daniel DeWall 馃枑馃徏馃槂

  • Rental Property Investor 路 Pittsburgh, PA 路 Member since 2011 路 56 posts 路 13 votes
    5y

    @Nikki Closser love this deal. You just inspired me to search for some deals like this on the mls. I鈥檝e mostly bought off market and just this year bought my first 2 mls deals. I have experience buying with seller financing and knowing I could do it on the mls has me amped up!! Great job

  • Investor 路 MI 路 Member since 2019 路 112 posts 路 221 votes
    5y

    @Nick L. congrats on your first two deals!! Let me know how it goes with the MLS. We are in the middle of closing on our new primary home so I can't do anything right now and I'm restless 馃槀

  • Investor 路 San Antonio, TX 路 Member since 2019 路 13 posts 路 13 votes
    5y

    Wow, great story. Thanks for sharing. When offering up owner financing, does the title transfer to you and the previous owner is just like a bank with him/her  being first lienholder on the property until you've satisfied the debt? Sound like a great success story (except for the bed bugs ;-)

  • Investor 路 Washington, DC 路 Member since 2020 路 13 posts 路 9 votes
    5y

    @Nikki Closser

    This is such a great read! And an amazing deal. I鈥檓 gearing up for my first deal and I have always been highly interested in commercial multi-family. My end goal would be to get into some large multi-family deals. So it鈥檚 amazing to see that after a few tries, the small multi family is what ending up working for you!

    The advice I often get is to start with house hacking, which would be do-able, but I would love to jump right in to smaller end of commercial properties and scale from there!

    Besides your AirBnB experience, did you have any other landlording/management experience prior to this deal? I鈥檓 sure six units might feel a bit daunting at first. I plan to work with a property manager for all of my deals, did you find yours before you started looking for any deals in Michigan? I鈥檓 still trying to wrap my head around the process of assembling my team. 馃槄

  • Portland, OR 路 Member since 2020 路 65 posts 路 37 votes
    5y

    @Nikki Closser

    Congratulations! Amazing first deal - thanks so much for sharing.

    Being that you鈥檙e in Seattle, why did you guys choose Michigan? Are there any certain numbers or attributes you looked at when evaluating different markets?

    Thanks!

  • Investor 路 MI 路 Member since 2019 路 112 posts 路 221 votes
    5y

    @Mike Biasatti correct. The seller is essentially the bank, but you both decide on the terms. 

  • Investor 路 MI 路 Member since 2019 路 112 posts 路 221 votes
    5y

    @Bianca Sackey thank you! You know, the only regret I have in life is not house hacking when I was younger. I鈥檓 43 now with 2 kids and it鈥檚 just not happening at this point 馃槀

    I was a landlord for 10 years for a condo I owned that I only rented because I bought at the height of the market in MI in 2004 and then the market crashed and I was moving to Seattle and was so underwater on it. I HATED being a landlord. For that and for Airbnb. So, we decided up front that we would have a property manager for whatever properties we bought from here on out. Our agent is actually also a property manager, so we are using him. We are only a couple months in, so we will see how it works out after a year and reevaluate.

  • Investor 路 MI 路 Member since 2019 路 112 posts 路 221 votes
    5y

    @Dado Vucak my husband and I are both from Michigan and moved back here in January now that we have two little kids. Otherwise, I wouldn鈥檛 have known the MI market at all! Knowing this state like the back of my hand has been SO helpful. 

  • Member since 2020 路 14 posts 路 3 votes
    5y

    @Nikki Closser CONGRATULATIONS

  • Rental Property Investor 路 Los Angeles, CA 路 Member since 2013 路 1k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Nikki Closser congrats to you! Was your motivation to do seller financing to limit your out of pocket

    cost (ie down payment)?

  • Portland, OR 路 Member since 2020 路 65 posts 路 37 votes
    5y

    @Nikki Closser

    Oh okay, that makes sense. Invest in what you know! Also helps that the Michigan market is very reasonably priced, at least for us folks on the west coast.

    Thanks for sharing!

  • Investor 路 MI 路 Member since 2019 路 112 posts 路 221 votes
    5y

    @Anthony Jackson thank you!


    @Brian G. that was a big part of it. Also, most banks have a seasoning period before you can cash out refi and our credit union is 2 years, but they will do 80% loan to value. We didn鈥檛 want the down payment cash tied up that long. And we knew that we could force appreciation by raising rents and get a mortgage on it to get some of our cash back soon than that. 

  • Investor 路 Birmingham, AL 路 Member since 2020 路 27 posts 路 19 votes
    5y

    @Nikki Closser Congratulations! Not only did you land a great deal, I think the tenants will be more "cared for" & thats speaks volume! Your post keeps multi-family from seeming so daunting, lol.

  • Bodie JonesPro Member
    Rental Property Investor 路 Meridian, ID 路 Member since 2017 路 6 posts 路 2 votes
    5y

    Hey Nikki,

    After you complete the cash out refi with your CU, maybe consider carving off 1 of the units and trying a short term rental in that market.  AIRDNA rentalizer has some data that can show you how much that would generate per year. If it works out, it may be a game changer for you. Just a thought, best of luck with the project!

    -Bodie

  • Investor 路 MI 路 Member since 2019 路 112 posts 路 221 votes
    5y

    @Bodie Jones thanks for the advice! We did Airbnb with our Seattle house for a while. I actually used Airdna and the results were a bit questionable

  • Investor 路 MI 路 Member since 2019 路 112 posts 路 221 votes
    5y

    @Thea Jenkins thank you! Yeah, I for sure want people to feel cared for! It kills me how many landlords just do not give a sh*t 馃槼

  • Real Estate Agent 路 Mesa, AZ 路 Member since 2017 路 231 posts 路 169 votes
    5y

    That's awesome! Also you have the best last name for the industry!

  • New to Real Estate 路 San Diego, CA 路 Member since 2019 路 14 posts 路 7 votes
    5y

    where did you find this deal on?

  • Investor 路 Member since 2020 路 401 posts 路 86 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Nikki Closser:

    Hi! I wrote a post 4 months ago asking what you all would do in our situation -- sell or keep our Seattle house. Several of you commented and it really helped us solidify our decision, so thanks to all who commented! Here is the post for reference: https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

    Well, we decided to sell the house and it sold for way over what we expected and we walked away with zero regrets and a huge chunk of money to invest with. Fast forward and we now have a 6 unit townhouse building in Michigan (near where we live now) that cash flows $1600 after all expenses including property management and this is with 5 of the units still at $150-$350 below market rents. Three of the units are 3 bedrooms, 2 half baths + 1 full bath and two of the units are 2 bedrooms, 1 half bath + 1 full bath. 

    The property had been on the market for 2 years, but when we ran the numbers it looked like you could cash flow without changing anything, so we couldn't figure out why it was still on the market. The listing agent told us that he gets multiple calls per week about it, but that the seller just will not budge on price. It sounded like people kept offering lower and he kept saying no. 

    So, knowing this info and knowing that it would cash flow for us at full price, we made him an offer. We said we would give him 290K (he had it listed at 297K) with 40K down if he would do seller financing. He came back and said yes to seller financing at 5% interest (which we couldn't believe since we heard seller financing is usually a higher interest rate). And then we negotiated a 20 year amortization schedule (and he wanted a 5 year balloon payment).

    There were 5 full units and 1 vacant. We did some remodeling in the vacant one (spent about 8K on floors, painting, new vanity in a bathroom, and redid kitchen that we hired out and my husband is a master electrician so he put in new switches and fixed any lighting issues and a couple other little things) and we put it at market rent. Old owner was charging $625 for the 3 bedroom and market rent is $966. We are working on raising rents for the other 5 units over the next few months $25-$50. All of the tenants were on month-to-month and had all been living there at least for 2 years. 

    The previous owner mostly took care of the outside, but the interior is pretty dated and there are a lot of little things to do. Our property manager toured each unit with each tenant and asked about any issues. The only big thing was that one tenant had been living with bedbugs for almost 2 years since she moved in. I lost my mind over this because of psychological trauma from having bedbugs in a hotel room when I was in Nepal and I ended up in the hospital, but that's a story for another day haha. Anyway, she said the landlord told her if she called an exterminator, he would evict her. So crazy! She had powders and spray that she was trying to use. Her unit was otherwise very clean and I seriously wanted to cry for her that she had been living with them for so long. Luckily, the exterminator found no evidence of them in any other unit and it was only $980 for the guaranteed treatment. I thought for sure it would be more. Anyway, that was our only big issue coming in and she was so grateful that we were willing to take care of it. 

    So, each time someone decides to move out, we will remodel another unit. What I love about seller financing is that we don't have to cash-out refi once we get the appreciation up and are ready to get a mortgage on it to get our cash back out--it's just getting a first mortgage on it at 80% LTV with our credit union. We should be able to get our money back pretty easily between 12-18 months. I love how with commercial, the value of the property goes up when the NOI goes up and the previous landlord had the rents so low, that has been easy to get the NOI up!

    So, for now, we are cash flowing $1600 and we expect to be at $1800 cash flow by the end of the year. This is obviously if no huge maintenance issues come up and if someone moves out, the potential for cash flow goes up even more. 

    That's the story of my first deal (if you don't include our primary home turned airbnb turned sold for investing)! 

    Could you elaborate about the finding the deal in the MLS? Michigan is big and there are many cities and towns with many neighborhood... How did you pick a place? Did you made lot of offers in this one place? What is the difference in the refi mortgage with seller lending to other options?

  • Member since 2020 路 18 posts 路 13 votes
    5y

    Congrats on the amazing deal! I was thinking of a small 2 to 4 plex for house hacking on my next deal, but after hearing this maybe a bigger multi family may work better and I house hack something smaller for myself. I'll run my numbers but this is very inspiring and informative. Thanks for the share. 

  • Investor 路 MI 路 Member since 2019 路 112 posts 路 221 votes
    5y


    @Matt Greer haha!! It鈥檚 actually pronounced with a short o, but maybe I should say it the other way during deals 馃槀

  • Investor 路 MI 路 Member since 2019 路 112 posts 路 221 votes
    5y

    @Richard Hayes I found it on realtor.com 

  • Investor 路 MI 路 Member since 2019 路 112 posts 路 221 votes
    5y

    @Clarence Stevens the one regret I have in life is not house hacking a duplex when I was younger! As far as getting a bigger multi family, I think it depends on what your goals are. For my first deal, i wanted something that cash flowed more than a couple hundred bucks. And that was really hard for me to find in a duplex or SFH.

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