Question about insurance, taxes, subleasing and entities

Question about insurance, taxes, subleasing and entities

Oakland, CA · Member since 2018 · 19 posts · 6 votes

Hello Bigger Pockets Community,

I am about to close on my 1st real deal- I'll call it an office hack. I live in the Bay Area and work as a psychotherapist. My partner and I are saving money to purchase our first property (hopefully a duplex or triplex so we can house hack). In the meantime, I've come across an office suite in the area that is renting for under market rate. I believe that with a bit of sweat equity and some light rehab that I can make this a great suite for psychotherapists to rent. I plan to rent the suite and then sublet the offices. In addition to making money I think this will be a great project to learn from. My partner and I will get to see how we like working together and we will get experience working with contractors, real estate agents and insurance agents. I am wondering about two things- insurance and tax optimization. I believe that I read somewhere that rental income is not taxed. Does this include people who are subleasing property as opposed to owning and leasing? Or perhaps it all depends what kind of entity we are operating under (S corp, LLC etc). Any resources on tax optimization strategies and determining what sort of entity to operate under would be appreciated! I am also wondering about insurance. The lease says we need property and liability. I currently have malpractice insurance but I believe the owner is meaning something else when he asks for liability insurance?

The owner is aware of my intent to sublease and has also given permission for the alterations I want to make to the suite.

Anything else I should be considering?

People always say to invest in what you know. I know psychotherapy offices! I hope to actually buy a small property to convert in to offices in the future.

Thanks for any input you have. 

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  • Rental Property Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2017 · 696 posts · 660 votes
    7y

    @Lindsay Ferlin Awesome, I like the outside of the box thinking!   HOWEVER..." rental income is not taxed"  WOW...dodon't I wish that was true..haha.    Income is income is income...always...and regardless of anyone's political party, the Govt. wants their cut.   Especially in CA!

    Now, what you might be thinking is that you could actually have a LOSS from a tax standpoint due to depreciation and other expenses even though you have net positive cash flow.  100% read up on rental income taxation and or talk to your CPA so you have that down.  The owner is talking about liability insurance.

    ALso....try to buy it or lease option or something...the owner is ok with you doing the work as you are improving THEIR asset.  Ask about buying it and having them owner finance etc.  You want to control the asset for the long term, not just arbitrage the rents.  :)  Good luck!

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2017 · 719 posts · 658 votes
    7y

    Rental income is shown on sch.E which is not subject to social security taxes (like FICA) but all the other taxes.

    When you're renting property vs owning, you can't depreciate it but your rent payments are totally tax deductible (vs only interest on mortgage is).

    Insurance: you'll have to get Tenant or renter insurance which protects the property and your liability if someone slips and falls, set building on fire etc. this is not your professional insurance - just regular insurance you have for your home.

    I don't see how kind of entity will affect the taxes: if it's just you the owner, LLC will be disregarded entity and shown on your own taxes, only on different schedules. Your own business will be sch.C but the leasing the building will be sch.E, still everything on your 1040. I have quite few entities to separate different businesses but for tax purposes it's all on my 1040.

  • Jason BottPro Member
    Insurance Agent · Nationwide · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Lindsay Ferlin:

    Hello Bigger Pockets Community,

    I am about to close on my 1st real deal- I'll call it an office hack. I live in the Bay Area and work as a psychotherapist. My partner and I are saving money to purchase our first property (hopefully a duplex or triplex so we can house hack). In the meantime, I've come across an office suite in the area that is renting for under market rate. I believe that with a bit of sweat equity and some light rehab that I can make this a great suite for psychotherapists to rent. I plan to rent the suite and then sublet the offices. In addition to making money I think this will be a great project to learn from. My partner and I will get to see how we like working together and we will get experience working with contractors, real estate agents and insurance agents. I am wondering about two things- insurance and tax optimization. I believe that I read somewhere that rental income is not taxed. Does this include people who are subleasing property as opposed to owning and leasing? Or perhaps it all depends what kind of entity we are operating under (S corp, LLC etc). Any resources on tax optimization strategies and determining what sort of entity to operate under would be appreciated! I am also wondering about insurance. The lease says we need property and liability. I currently have malpractice insurance but I believe the owner is meaning something else when he asks for liability insurance?

    The owner is aware of my intent to sublease and has also given permission for the alterations I want to make to the suite.

    Anything else I should be considering?

    People always say to invest in what you know. I know psychotherapy offices! I hope to actually buy a small property to convert in to offices in the future.

    Thanks for any input you have. 

     Lindsay, the landlord is asking for General Liability insurance and wants you to get coverage for your Business Personal Property that you will keep in the office, so the landlord is not held responsible for your belongings.

    Call the agent you have your Malpractice insurance with and tell them you are leasing a space and need to set up an office policy.  This office policy will give you all of the lease requirements along with some additional coverage that is nice to have.  Total cost should be $200-$400 per year.

  • Oakland, CA · Member since 2018 · 19 posts · 6 votes
    7y

    @Richard Sherman, yes! I considered doing that. It seems like there is a lot of potential to add value to the building. My hesitation is that we do not have enough capital saved to make improvements on the building right away or for repairs if something were to go wrong. I thought about asking the owner about it down the road, once we have more capital saved. Do you think I should say something now about doing that later- to get him thinking about it? He has a broker renting the place for him. If I were to mention something should I mention it to her? or contact him directly?

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