THE REO MYTH !!!

THE REO MYTH !!!

Appraiser · BURBANK, CA · Member since 2008 · 18 posts · 0 votes

This message is for investors in CA, NV or AZ. I am a licensed broker and certified appraiser. How many of you are profiting form investing in REO properties? I can honestly tell you that the myth the gurus are spreading around that you can purchase REO properties at 50-75% of after repairs value is just as much a myth and as rare as hitting the lottery in California specially. I am not talking about states like Kansas, Arkansas or other areas where I see investors posting that they picked up a foreclosure or short sale for $15,000 that was worth $40,000 and after rehab and closing costs they make $5,000-$10,000 after three months of time. Those numbers do not fly in most states.

In my experience and after submitting approximate 50 offers in March alone on REO inventory, the lenders after they acquire the property are not willing to sell at a great discount even after 100-200 days on market. They just gradually follow the market decline until the property sells to a owner occupant at 90-95% discount which for us investors is nothing. I mean think about it, once a lender acquires the property they have it listed with an agent, which most of the time lists the property at or close to market and reduces every 30 days a little to sell. If you were the bank, wouldn't you want the maximum price attainable in the current market give or take 5-10%. I think you would have a better chance of purchasing below market if you concentrated on regular sellers since there is some desperation or emotion involved. Does anyone from Ca. agree or have a different experience?

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  • Appraiser · BURBANK, CA · Member since 2008 · 18 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    Flipper, my only conclusion would be that your own impression of market value is not valid. Again there is no way that in Florida you can constantly pickup bank owned REO's for 50% of ARV, unless you are buying complete dumps and doing major remodel. Why do I say this: because I personally send in 30-50 offers in four different states, CA, NV, AZ, NM in the hopes of acquiring 70-75% of ARV market values on properties which are in pretty good shape, not fixers.

    Does anyone think banks along with their realtor's and appraisers are complete idiots. Banks are not in the business of holding real estate, but bet your bottom dollar that they are not in the business of losing money once they acquire the property either. Once they acquire the property they owe it to their investors to get top dollar for the property so there is not way they will sell a property at 50% market value. Flipper I am not trying to argue with you, but I can guarantee your market value analysis is pretty much flawed.

  • Real Estate Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2008 · 146 posts · 5 votes
    18y

    Thanks RoyalT

    Yes (and he's where I think you can take advantage of something)

    The banks (not all but some and two in particular) WILL initially the price for what they want plus some to see what happens.

    The problem for them there is, a lot of people will maybe see that time around and ignore it because it's over priced whereas I will track it.
    I'll let it expire (we are talking about a pipeline here) and I'll get notified when it reappears.

    Again (as again was in my yeserday post) when one in particular property came back on the MLS after 45 days had gone by, it was $130K LESS than the original listing and that's when I'll pounce (or if I don't want it yet, just wait another 3 or 4 weeks and see if drops yet again before making an offer)

  • Appraiser · BURBANK, CA · Member since 2008 · 18 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    I agree with you Flipper, but at the end and after the banks numerous deductions you end up buying where I suspect is 10-20% of final and reduced list price which most probably is 15-20% of as is market value.

    So in essence you are not purchasing these REO at 50% original list like your 1st post claims.

  • Real Estate Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2008 · 146 posts · 5 votes
    18y

    So I guess you are right and I am wrong. That's fine.

    I don't have an "impression" of market values and you obviously totally ignored everythin I said before.

    Please read 100% of a post before you reply to it.

    For the record I'll say this one more time!!!

    A) THERE ARE A CERTAIN BANKS I KNOW WHO ARE IN SO MUCH **** THAT THEY WILL DUMP PROPERTY AT 50% OF THE ACTUAL, REAL, TRUE, RECENT, APPRAISED, BY A PRO, TODAY'S, REAL WORLD, NO CRAP VALUE!!

    B) YES THEY WILL AND YES THEY DO!!

    C) NO, THESE ARE NOT CRAPHOLES IN NASTY AREAS EITHER, THEY ARE NICE SFR'S IN NICE AREAS WHICH NEED UPDATING!!

    D) I MUST DISAGREE THAT (SOME OK, JUST SOME) BANK ARE INDEED IDIOTS AND THEY DESERVE TO BE TAKEN ADVANTGE OF IN JUST THE SAME WAY THEY DO IT TO THEIR CUSTOMERS!!

    E) YOU CAN NOT GUARANTEE THAT MY MARKET VALUE ANALYSIS IS FLAWED.

  • Real Estate Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2008 · 146 posts · 5 votes
    18y

    OK I'M DONE WITH THIS THREAD, IF YOU CAN'T READ OR UNDERSTAND THEN THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO. ENJOY

  • Appraiser · BURBANK, CA · Member since 2008 · 18 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    AND I AM SAYING THAT YOUR ANALYSIS OF MARKET VALUE IS FLAWED!!!!!!!!!

    AND I AM SAYING THERE IS NO WAY THAT A LENDER AND THEIR ENTIRE STAFF WILL ONLY GIVE YOU "FLIPPER" MLS LISTED REO PROPERTIES AT THAT, FOR 50% CONSTANTLY!!!!

    IF YOU THINK EXPERIENCED INVESTORS WILL BUY YOUR LOAD OF CRAP YOUR OUT OF YOUR MIND. I CAN UNDERSTAND IF SOMEONE HIT A POT OF GOLD AND PICKS A PROPERTY ONE TIME AT CLOSE TO 50% BUT CLAIMING YOU ARE CONSTANTLY PICKING UP 50% IS FULL OF BALONEY, TELL IT TO A NEWBIE MUCH LIKE THESE GURUS DO.

    LETS MAKE A BET, SEND ME ONE OF YOUR 50 CENT DEALS AND LET ME RUN MY APPRAISAL ANALYSIS AND WILL BOTH REPORT TO EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD SO THAT THEY WILL KNOW IF YOUR 50% REO PURCHASE CLAIM IS VALID OR NOT. HOW ABOUT IT FLIPPER!!!!!!!

  • Real Estate Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2008 · 146 posts · 5 votes
    18y

    DO YOU TAKE THE SHORT BUS TO WORK?

    How about this? When you have the time, go ahead and read every single word I wrote since I started in this thread.
    I really don't have the time to educate you but if you'd like to read exactly what I said then I think you might understand just a little of what I was saying.

    I am sorry it has been tough for you figure out, I am sorry you think that everyone but you is a newbie or inexperienced and I am sorry that you (if you've done any) are paying way too much for investment property.

    As for your stupid "lets make a bet" thing, grow the hell up. You must be the only guy in the world who can't find or negotiate a deal, sorry about too!!

  • Real Estate Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2008 · 146 posts · 5 votes
    18y
    Originally posted by "RICK430":
    Flipper I 100% agree. There is no way to cash flow in Ca properly, for any investor. I am thinking of investing in other states, since I know that many investors are making money on Flips. The guy from Houston above reflects what many of my associates are saying about out of state investment. You have to go where the money is. If an investor with cash can put a team together in states like Houston, Michigan, Atlanta and other places the opportunity to make money on flips or Reo's will be pretty good. I would appreciate to hear more from flippers. In other states and their experiences

    LOL, Now I know I'm right about the bus.
    Someone in TX can say they get 50% deals and it's OK.
    I say the same thing about Florida and it's not, hmmmm

  • Appraiser · BURBANK, CA · Member since 2008 · 18 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    So in essence you are full of crap as I and probably everyone reading this post knew all along. I am newbie hah! Licensed Broker and Certified Appraiser for the past 20 years investing mainly in 1-4 units properties in 4 different states is a newbie in your eyes. What is negotiating skills have anything to do with REO purchasing? As an educated investor one should know his or her chances before one starts a business endeavor, in this case REO investing. If I know realistically that the chances of purchasing listed REO inventory at 50% on the dollar in my area of interest is 0 to slim, why would I not accept this fact and work around it. I hope everyone reading this posts understands that as investors you should value your time and increase your chances of a favorable outcome. Since we are not in the lottery or gold mining business and actually expect a realistic rate of return, you would need to analyze and accept lender guidelines and work within those guidelines to make a deal happen. If you can pick a a deal at 70-75% of market value and I do this every 2-4 months, considering that the property is a newer construction or needs limited work then that would be realistic. If you fall for this redicoulous claims of purchasing real estate at 40-50 cents on the dollar then good luck waiting.

  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    18y

    [size=24]STOP![/size]

    If you guys can't act like adults and have a civil debate, then I'm going to have to do what I must. Please be respectful here.

    If you can't get along, then just ignore one another and move on with your lives.

    Additionally, the WHOLE SHOUTING THING IS OVER!

    Thank you.

  • Real Estate Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2008 · 146 posts · 5 votes
    18y

    I was simply making comments and suddenly I'm a liar because there are 50 cents on the dollar deals here if Florida. Sorry about that. Just move if you don't like it there.

  • Appraiser · BURBANK, CA · Member since 2008 · 18 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    Flippper why are you posting what I stated some time back? Don't understand that. My post clearly states that I am looking for REO properties to Flip in certain states, not high end states, and expand my flipping investment. How is that stating that I am expecting to purchase at 50% in higher end states like where you and I are located in. CA. FL, NV, AZ, NY and so forth.

    Michigan for example you can purchase at 50-60 cents on the dollar, but the problem is that there is no demand. In another words you can pick up a property at 50 cent on the dollar and end of for months in the market and finally selling it at 70-75% on the dollar if your lucky to get out. As most people know, Michigan is in a deep slump due to their auto factory crisis.

    My claim all along is that an investor has a 0 to slim chance of purchasing listed REO properties at 50 cents on the dollar in the high end states.

  • Real Estate Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2008 · 146 posts · 5 votes
    18y

    OK, well rather than piss everyome off.......... CLOSED!

    (quick, the bus is coming................ and stop calling me flipper)

  • Appraiser · BURBANK, CA · Member since 2008 · 18 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    BiggerPro, I am sure many people reading this post will disagree and actually are learning. As real estate investors we are all entitled to our opinions, as is Flipper and many alike. So for your to come in like the Gestapo and say enough is not fair and completely unnecessary.

    [NOTE FROM ADMIN - THE ABOVE COMMENTS ARE EXAMPLES OF HOW NOT TO ACT ON A FORUM WHEN THE FORUM OWNER ASKS YOU TO BEHAVE YOURSELF IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE SITE'S TOS.]

  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    18y

    It takes at least 2 to tango and I know that I've had enough. You guys are welcome to discuss, but I ask that you do so without squawking at one another.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Little Town, OK · Member since 2008 · 688 posts · 21 votes
    18y

    Rick,

    You're way off....unless you're a onesy twosy buyer

    We're seeing MI in the 20's (current BPO)

    We start "before" DD at upper 50's in CA, NV, NY, TX, AZ ad nauseum. Trades are closing along the mid to upper 40's (same valuation methods). If....and that's a HUGE if the properties were somehow not in need of "any rehab" (impossible) we would undertake a 60's valuation

    You two seem to have something going on so I'll bow out now,

    Best wishes

  • Real Estate Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2008 · 146 posts · 5 votes
    18y

    [size=18]LOL AWESOME [/size]:train: :beer: :superman:

  • Appraiser · BURBANK, CA · Member since 2008 · 18 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    Oklahoma, I have no clue what you just said and I don't buy it. Purchasing at 40-50 cents on the dollar in CA. Only if your purchasing BULK!!!

    For those who claim that they have purchased individual listed REO inventory at 40-50 cents on the dollar in CA, NV, NY and AZ please post your acquisitions after close so that everyone on this post can learn from you, me included.

    I am not talking about Texas, Alabama, Kansas, Michigan or any of the lower end states, where you can purchase a property for 25-50k and I am not talking about REO Bulk purchases either, where an investor or corporation can actually purchase at 50 cents on the dollar within a portfolio worth tens of millions. I am referring to individuals investor purchases only.

    Enough claims and innuendo lets talk about facts, post your closings or do not make wild claims, period.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Little Town, OK · Member since 2008 · 688 posts · 21 votes
    18y

    I'm not asking you to buy it. I can get a 1/2 gallon of milk at 7-11 for 3.00 or I can go to Walmart and get a gallon for 4.00

    Your model is predicated upon what and where you buy.

    Why would I address my sources and abilities to satisfy someone that'll never believe it anyways?

    I can at any time call any one of the banks I buy "BULK" from and get a one home sale....If I wanted one I could EASILY negotiate a sweet deal

    Why?

    Because I earned the ability by closing many deals that carried a bunch of zeros with it

    Can Joe Smith see a 50% from any of the listed properties on Bank sites? I seriously wish that were the case but it's real simple to realize that doesn't occur (alot). Mainly the costs of having a REALTOR involved adds 5% and we're not even talking turkey yet,

    What does happen is they stay on the books (days listed) and when 90-120 rolls around I get a call to liquidate their assets at a HUGE discount. It's better than keeping them for another 120 and covering that expense plus seeing the devaluation (double negative)....

    Whether you know what happens or don't.........take a step back and rethink what may be possible OUTSIDE your knowledge base,

    We have purchased homes in Detroit for LESS THAN 1,000 dollars...

    Good luck to you in the realm of REO

  • Appraiser · BURBANK, CA · Member since 2008 · 18 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    Oklahoma, go read the previous posts, you not saying anything new, I know I can purchase 50% or maybe less in Michigan, Detroit, Oklahoma and the lower end states, where property values are less than 100k.

    I am referring to investors within the higher end states like CA. NV, NY, FL, AZ, so forth.

    So your post is meaningless and does not apply to investors within the above states I mentioned. I have heard people purchase a 55k home in Kansas or Missouri for 20-22k, but does not fly in CA. as everyone knows.

  • Real Estate Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2008 · 146 posts · 5 votes
    18y

    50 cents on the dollar REO's here in FL all day long Yaaaaaaahhhhh wooo hooooo :beer: :woohoo: :shoot:

  • Real Estate Consultant · Little Town, OK · Member since 2008 · 688 posts · 21 votes
    18y

    Rick

    Your head is buried in the sand

    Who cares if the property sells at 25,000 or 250,000

    I can do what I say and it seems you can't. That's based upon an obvious barrier you have that exists in your business model and inability to believe in things you've yet to achieve

    If you want something you've never had before....you've got to do something you've never done before

    My name is OK but I still buy and have a home in CA. I just prefer the cost of living here for now...

    You just keep believing what I am doing doesn't happen....it'll be one less bid driving up the cost

    Cause it doesn't happen anyways......... :roll:

    Sweet Dreams ,

  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    18y
    Originally posted by "RICK430":
    BiggerPro, I am sure many people reading this post will disagree and actually are learning. As real estate investors we are all entitled to our opinions, as is Flipper and many alike. So for your to come in like the Gestapo and say enough is not fair and completely unnecessary.

    Real estate investors are absolutely entitled to their opinions, but as James said, this is not your personal residence. It is a privately owned business and your behavior is completely out of line. I asked you nicely to be civil, but you couldn't do it. Then, when I kindly asked you again, you likened me to the Gestapo.

    I am offended by your remarks, and since you can't seem to behave in accordance to our site's rules, I am revoking your site privileges.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Little Town, OK · Member since 2008 · 688 posts · 21 votes
    18y
    Originally posted by "RICK430":
    Flipper....... I would appreciate to hear more from flippers. In other states and their experiences

    Didn't really seem he wanted anyone's opinion at all??? When I looked at the ARV comments I was even more amazed. We are getting all our discounts from a current valuation. ARV would be a cake walk? It just sounded like someone lied to him and he was pissed at somethin

    Oh Well,

    Hope everyone hasa great day...

  • Real Estate Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2008 · 146 posts · 5 votes
    18y

    That whole situation started following the post I made about REO's in Florida and I apologize for getting into it with Rick430.
    I seemed to be having a terrible time getting my point across to him and I appreciate the other posts that were added during our little battle.
    I was probably out of line too and I was so frustrated.
    Again, I apologize to all of you for any inappropriate actions on my part.

    Mark

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