Older (1950's and older) San Diego multi-family
San Diego · Member since 2021 · 24 posts · 5 votes
Older (1950's and older) San Diego multi-family
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Quote from @Twana Rasoul:
@Dan H. yes I always get sewer lines scoped for sure...so far only one of the inspections came back very bad where I had to replace a section and then reline the rest. It is definitely nicer to have ABS vs cast iron but cast iron is great still as long as no roots and still in decent shape.
I am very surprised that you have had scopes on cast iron of homes older than early 1950s show not significantly degraded.
I have yet to see the connections of cast iron not greatly reduced on diameter on any property that I have had scoped from early 1950s or older (likely more than a dozen scopes). Common is to have ~1.5” diameter at the connections on 3” pipes or ~2” at the connections on 4” pipes. Other than the connections, the pipe diameter usually is near original but the connections have corroded inwards. You can continue in either of these cases realizing that there will be more clogs, but dealing with more drain issues may still be cheaper than re-plumbing the sewer.
Collapsed is worse. I recently had to re-line due to a collapsed section. It required concrete work in two locations and a fairly large hole at each location. It was not cheap.
5 of my properties have had significant cast iron sewer pipe work in recent years. The oldest was from I believe 1906 (something close to that, mission beach), but 3 properties are circa 1960 (Pt Loma, two in Escondido) (the other was 1954, Claremont).
If your cast iron pipes are 1950s or older, I believe they can go at any time or seal so bad at the pipe connections that they no longer are functional. definitely should at least be prepared for a large cap expense related to the sewer lines.
For water lines, Maybe there is something about raised foundation versus slab. Of my slabs, all but one has had a foundation leak. Of my raised foundations (3), none have had an under foundation leak. This includes 1906, 1954, and circa 1960 properties, so the age does not seem to be the difference. If you have a slab that is 50 years old, you can get a foundation leak at any time and should have cap expense reserves to handle a slab leak.
Good luck
9 Replies
- San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 15 votes3y
Hi Thomas,
I’m also in the San Diego market, which neighborhoods are you looking in?
as far as getting cost estimates for rehab, I suggest finding a GC you like/trust and having them come with you in walkthroughs - 3yTwana RasoulBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Hi @Mike Hsiao Pretty much everything I own here in san diego fall into those decades you mention and you don't necessarily need to upgrade major systems just because the property is older.
If you get a good inspector, they should be able to tell you if things like pipes and electrical are original and more importantly if they are in decent shape...sometimes even if something is very old, it doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be replaced. For example, a property may be 70+ years old and have original cast iron sewer lines but that doesn't necessarily mean they need to be replaced unless something is wrong with them and they are crumbling.
Compass5122 Reviews Quote from @Twana Rasoul:
Hi @Mike Hsiao Pretty much everything I own here in san diego fall into those decades you mention and you don't necessarily need to upgrade major systems just because the property is older.
If you get a good inspector, they should be able to tell you if things like pipes and electrical are original and more importantly if they are in decent shape...sometimes even if something is very old, it doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be replaced. For example, a property may be 70+ years old and have original cast iron sewer lines but that doesn't necessarily mean they need to be replaced unless something is wrong with them and they are crumbling.
Did you have these old cast iron pipes scoped?
I have yet to see scoped cast iron sewer older than early 1950s that does not have something wrong. This does not imply that the problem has started to be significant, but it will not be long until it is significant. In recent times I replaced 3 unit’s cast iron with ABS and re-lined 4 unit’s cast iron piping.
Two common problems are the joints have closed to a fraction of their original diameter and collapsed cast iron pipes. The joint issue will result in more drain clogs but if cleared well and hydro occasionally can go without the fix for quite a few years but the maintenance will cost more than if the pipes had no issues.
Collapsed pipes you may be able to limp along, but not worth it as they will need work soon and dealing with back ups and the resulting unhappy tenant does not warrant it.
New ABS should last longer than your ownership. Lined will likely last over 20 years.
Quote from @Mike Hsiao:
I've been looking around San Diego for small multi-family properties. I've come across a few interesting ones, but they are built in the 1950's, 40's and 30's.
I know some of the things that I need to consider in these older properties when deciding what price to offer is potentially upgrading the plumbing, electrical, insulation, etc.
So I wanted to get some feedback on how to get a sense on how to estimate the costs to repair plumbing and electrical?
I was thinking during the inspection phase, I would hire a professional plumbing and electrical inspector, in addition to the normal home inspection. Can they get a pretty good feel of what needs to be repaired/upgraded just by looking at exterior features? I know it's impossible to truly know what's going on without opening up all the floors and walls, but just curious how others here go about this with older properties?
And what other things I should consider if I move forward with an older property?
There are communities in San Diego where the foundation was built upon beach sand (mission beach, north park, South Park, etc). The beach sand corodes the pillars resulting in the need for foundation work. If you purchase and it is that generation, assume if it is on sand that it is beach sand. If it is beach sand it is imperative that you determine if the foundation has already been repaired. For any of these properties I recommend having a foundation contractor evaluate the foundation.
Another thing about sand under foundations is tenting fumigation is significantly more costly due to the need to use more pesticide.
Good luck
- 3yTwana RasoulBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
@Dan H. yes I always get sewer lines scoped for sure...so far only one of the inspections came back very bad where I had to replace a section and then reline the rest. It is definitely nicer to have ABS vs cast iron but cast iron is great still as long as no roots and still in decent shape.
Compass5122 Reviews - San Diego · Member since 2021 · 24 posts · 5 votes3y
@ Dan, Twana, great insights on the sewer scope, as well as the beach sand being used underneath foundations in certain older areas of San Diego. This is very helpful to know! The neighborhood I live in has homes built on an old landfill. Certain homes along the canyon rim have had foundation issues because of this. I found this out talking with the neighbors one day.
Quote from @Twana Rasoul:
@Dan H. yes I always get sewer lines scoped for sure...so far only one of the inspections came back very bad where I had to replace a section and then reline the rest. It is definitely nicer to have ABS vs cast iron but cast iron is great still as long as no roots and still in decent shape.
I am very surprised that you have had scopes on cast iron of homes older than early 1950s show not significantly degraded.
I have yet to see the connections of cast iron not greatly reduced on diameter on any property that I have had scoped from early 1950s or older (likely more than a dozen scopes). Common is to have ~1.5” diameter at the connections on 3” pipes or ~2” at the connections on 4” pipes. Other than the connections, the pipe diameter usually is near original but the connections have corroded inwards. You can continue in either of these cases realizing that there will be more clogs, but dealing with more drain issues may still be cheaper than re-plumbing the sewer.
Collapsed is worse. I recently had to re-line due to a collapsed section. It required concrete work in two locations and a fairly large hole at each location. It was not cheap.
5 of my properties have had significant cast iron sewer pipe work in recent years. The oldest was from I believe 1906 (something close to that, mission beach), but 3 properties are circa 1960 (Pt Loma, two in Escondido) (the other was 1954, Claremont).
If your cast iron pipes are 1950s or older, I believe they can go at any time or seal so bad at the pipe connections that they no longer are functional. definitely should at least be prepared for a large cap expense related to the sewer lines.
For water lines, Maybe there is something about raised foundation versus slab. Of my slabs, all but one has had a foundation leak. Of my raised foundations (3), none have had an under foundation leak. This includes 1906, 1954, and circa 1960 properties, so the age does not seem to be the difference. If you have a slab that is 50 years old, you can get a foundation leak at any time and should have cap expense reserves to handle a slab leak.Good luck
- 3yTwana RasoulBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Twana Rasoul:
@Dan H. yes I always get sewer lines scoped for sure...so far only one of the inspections came back very bad where I had to replace a section and then reline the rest. It is definitely nicer to have ABS vs cast iron but cast iron is great still as long as no roots and still in decent shape.
I am very surprised that you have had scopes on cast iron of homes older than early 1950s show not significantly degraded.
I have yet to see the connections of cast iron not greatly reduced on diameter on any property that I have had scoped from early 1950s or older (likely more than a dozen scopes). Common is to have ~1.5” diameter at the connections on 3” pipes or ~2” at the connections on 4” pipes. Other than the connections, the pipe diameter usually is near original but the connections have corroded inwards. You can continue in either of these cases realizing that there will be more clogs, but dealing with more drain issues may still be cheaper than re-plumbing the sewer.
Collapsed is worse. I recently had to re-line due to a collapsed section. It required concrete work in two locations and a fairly large hole at each location. It was not cheap.
5 of my properties have had significant cast iron sewer pipe work in recent years. The oldest was from I believe 1906 (something close to that, mission beach), but 3 properties are circa 1960 (Pt Loma, two in Escondido) (the other was 1954, Claremont).
If your cast iron pipes are 1950s or older, I believe they can go at any time or seal so bad at the pipe connections that they no longer are functional. definitely should at least be prepared for a large cap expense related to the sewer lines.
For water lines, Maybe there is something about raised foundation versus slab. Of my slabs, all but one has had a foundation leak. Of my raised foundations (3), none have had an under foundation leak. This includes 1906, 1954, and circa 1960 properties, so the age does not seem to be the difference. If you have a slab that is 50 years old, you can get a foundation leak at any time and should have cap expense reserves to handle a slab leak.Good luck
@Dan H. Yes thankfully most are in decent shape but yes that can change at anytime...for water lines crawl space makes it easier and for properties with slab on grade I usually cap the lines underneath the slab and route through the ceiling instead so that when there is a leak it is a cheap fix vs having to deal with slab leaks :)
Compass5122 Reviews - Real Estate Agent · Southern California · Member since 2019 · 681 posts · 281 votes3y
@Mike Hsiao I just bought a duplex that was built in 1942. Happy to answer any questions and I could also send you over my inspection report.
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