Proposed Capital Gains Tax Increase

Proposed Capital Gains Tax Increase

Rental Property Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2019 · 29 posts · 15 votes

President Biden has proposed to nearly double the capital gains tax rate in an attempt to fund the $1.8 trillion American Families Plan. This has caused some investors to fear a loss in their wealth, while others will be able to avoid it.

Within the new plan lies a tax increase for Americans earning more than $1 million a year in capital gains. The current capital gains tax for this bracket is 20%. This could possibly reverse the long standing laws where capital gains are taxed less than wages. The new plan would increase this percentage to 39.6%. However, it is believed that many wealthy individuals will be able to dodge it.

There will be ways (mostly legal) to avoid this increased tax burden. The wealthy can always find tactics to reduce their tax liability. One such example is the “step-up” basis. This is used when someone inherits a very large amount of assets. They can inherit it at current value and only pay gains on the appreciation made during their holding time. This means they could hold onto that asset for a short amount of time after inheriting it, then sell it with a $1 million dollar tax exemption. Charitable donations are also exempt from taxes. Therefore, people could donate assets and money to nonprofit organizations that they or their family are affiliated with in order to funnel the money back to them. As a result, some argue that these increases in capital gains taxes won’t raise much money as the wealthy are smart enough to avoid their tax liability.

If the plan is successful however, it will create revenue to fund new social programs such as free daycare and community college, as well as family leave and child care. This would put America on par with many European nations that already offer these programs to people. For example, in Sweden college is free, and new parents can both take up to a year of paid time off when a child is born. As one of the richest countries in the world, many argue that we owe it to our citizens to provide these services free of cost.

On the other hand, many wealthy individuals feel that they should not have to pay more taxes for others to receive free benefits. Furthermore, there is an argument that low capital gains rate stimulates entrepreneurship. It gives people an incentive to start their own business rather than be an employee. Real estate investors will have to pay extra attention to tax laws in the coming years. This makes it a very important time to find a good accountant if you don't already have one.

Be Bulletproof,

Agostino

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Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
Moderator
Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
3y

@Agostino Pintus

Doesn’t matter what he proposes it’s not going to pass as he doesn’t have control of Congress

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  • Investor · WI · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 11 votes
    3y

    Few real estate investors who would speak favorably of taxing themselves in order to pay for social programs.  There is no source large enough to cover the long list of this, that, the other.

    The step up is nothing new but could be limited to $1m, not sure how that will be implemented.

    Raise your hand if you've ever heard of a charity that will "funnel" donations back to the donor?  

    .  . . Crickets

    Didn't think so




  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    3y

    @Agostino Pintus

    Doesn’t matter what he proposes it’s not going to pass as he doesn’t have control of Congress

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  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2019 · 64 posts · 29 votes
    3y

    This wont pass in my opinion 

  • Henry ClarkPro Member
    Developer · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y


    You’re discussing both sides of an issue and not taking a position.     
    At the end you recommend a good accountant.  Most accountants won’t do investment strategy with you. 

  • Member since 2022 · 405 posts · 455 votes
    3y

    Thanks for the informative post, Agostino. I appreciate you providing commentary from both sides. 

  • Investor · WI · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 11 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Henry Clark:


    You’re discussing both sides of an issue and not taking a position.     
    At the end you recommend a good accountant.  Most accountants won’t do investment strategy with you. 

    Umm, no, the original post clearly stated the opinion that all kinds of social programs are valid reason to tax a group that has no relation to them.   Also backed it up by using Europe as a shining example for the USA.

    The counterpoint was stated that certain investors "feel" this is not right.   

    Ya, that post clearly was in support of something that most investors would not be.

    The additional information provided accuses wealthy people of crimes amd immorality,  defrauding thru bogus charities, etc.
  • Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    You're smoking a lot of the good stuff if you think anyone on this forum (except maybe 1 or 2 outliers) should have any legitimate concern of making more than $1M of capital gains per year. 

    The only ones who might be concerned with this are those who plan to liquidate their entire portfolio when they retire. Obviously, you just have spread out your sale over a couple years to avoid that issue. 

  • Investor · WI · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 11 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Andrew B.:

    You're smoking a lot of the good stuff if you think anyone on this forum (except maybe 1 or 2 outliers) should have any legitimate concern of making more than $1M of capital gains per year. 

    The only ones who might be concerned with this are those who plan to liquidate their entire portfolio when they retire. Obviously, you just have spread out your sale over a couple years to avoid that issue. 


    You may not think that time will come,  but if you hold a decade or 2, you will be there.   Just hope that the government doesn't take away half of it to pay for things that other people should pay for themselves. 

  • Henry ClarkPro Member
    Developer · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    My main point is you won't find many tax accountants who give REI strategy.

    As far as Social programs and who pays.  I believe in the concept of hungry is a good thing.  I don’t want to go back to eating Ramen noodles with an egg on top.  

    As far as tax rules changing; Democrat, Republican and Liberal people.  The rich people all own real estate.

    If the rules change then I change. Anyone successful in REI will understand the concept of changing and adapting.

  • Henry ClarkPro Member
    Developer · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    No ramen noodles.  I want lobster for lunch. 

  • Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Eric W.:
    Quote from @Andrew B.:

    You're smoking a lot of the good stuff if you think anyone on this forum (except maybe 1 or 2 outliers) should have any legitimate concern of making more than $1M of capital gains per year. 

    The only ones who might be concerned with this are those who plan to liquidate their entire portfolio when they retire. Obviously, you just have spread out your sale over a couple years to avoid that issue. 


    You may not think that time will come,  but if you hold a decade or 2, you will be there.   Just hope that the government doesn't take away half of it to pay for things that other people should pay for themselves. 


     If I'm blessed enough to sell a single property that nets me more than $1M in capital gains, I would be happy to pay the taxes that support this great country. 

  • Investor · WI · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 11 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Andrew B.:
    Quote from @Eric W.:
    Quote from @Andrew B.:

    You're smoking a lot of the good stuff if you think anyone on this forum (except maybe 1 or 2 outliers) should have any legitimate concern of making more than $1M of capital gains per year. 

    The only ones who might be concerned with this are those who plan to liquidate their entire portfolio when they retire. Obviously, you just have spread out your sale over a couple years to avoid that issue. 


    You may not think that time will come,  but if you hold a decade or 2, you will be there.   Just hope that the government doesn't take away half of it to pay for things that other people should pay for themselves. 


     If I'm blessed enough to sell a single property that nets me more than $1M in capital gains, I would be happy to pay the taxes that support this great country. 

    It's easy to volunteer to pay money that you've never made yet,  isn't it? So that give authority to sieze other people's assets?  Thinking that way will make it even harder for an investor to achieve the success that they desire. 

    Perhaps the reason this has been a great country is because we haven't tried to bankrupt it with European style social programs, until now

  • Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2020 · 400 posts · 278 votes
    3y

    Democratic presidents always hype these things up especially around election time. The common theme is always increasing the tax on the 'rich', forgiving student loan debt, and giving out more free things. 

    98/100 times nothing happens and they know it, it's just a run at campaigning. 

    Even if it did happen, politicians will always leave loopholes (for themselves) that great tax consultants will also be able to leverage. 

  • Scott JohnsonBusiness Member
    Specialist · Greenville, NC · Member since 2019 · 673 posts · 408 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Justin Moy:

    Democratic presidents always hype these things up especially around election time. The common theme is always increasing the tax on the 'rich', forgiving student loan debt, and giving out more free things. 

    98/100 times nothing happens and they know it, it's just a run at campaigning. 

    Even if it did happen, politicians will always leave loopholes (for themselves) that great tax consultants will also be able to leverage. 


     Bingo. My opinion exactly. No way he's going to close a loophole that his friends are using, but saying it gets votes from the people who watch too much television and don't think for themselves.

  • Investor · WI · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 11 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Scott Johnson:
    Quote from @Justin Moy:

    Democratic presidents always hype these things up especially around election time. The common theme is always increasing the tax on the 'rich', forgiving student loan debt, and giving out more free things. 

    98/100 times nothing happens and they know it, it's just a run at campaigning. 

    Even if it did happen, politicians will always leave loopholes (for themselves) that great tax consultants will also be able to leverage. 


     Bingo. My opinion exactly. No way he's going to close a loophole that his friends are using, but saying it gets votes from the people who watch too much television and don't think for themselves.

    I agree it's mostly just playing classes against each other to maintain power.   What I can't understand is why any investor would be enthusiastic about taxing themselves (and others), as if that makes them a patriot, or somehow makes our country better
  • Scott JohnsonBusiness Member
    Specialist · Greenville, NC · Member since 2019 · 673 posts · 408 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Eric W.:
    Quote from @Scott Johnson:
    Quote from @Justin Moy:

    Democratic presidents always hype these things up especially around election time. The common theme is always increasing the tax on the 'rich', forgiving student loan debt, and giving out more free things. 

    98/100 times nothing happens and they know it, it's just a run at campaigning. 

    Even if it did happen, politicians will always leave loopholes (for themselves) that great tax consultants will also be able to leverage. 


     Bingo. My opinion exactly. No way he's going to close a loophole that his friends are using, but saying it gets votes from the people who watch too much television and don't think for themselves.

    I agree it's mostly just playing classes against each other to maintain power.   What I can't understand is why any investor would be enthusiastic about taxing themselves (and others), as if that makes them a patriot, or somehow makes our country better

     Yea, it's nuts. Pay the taxes that you absolutely owe, of course, but focusing on the strategies that reduce your taxes legally help to provide more productivity and housing when that money is not reinvested. 

    When a dollar goes to the government, they're far less than productive with it. That's just my opinion, of course.

  • Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Eric W.:
    Quote from @Andrew B.:
    Quote from @Eric W.:
    Quote from @Andrew B.:

    You're smoking a lot of the good stuff if you think anyone on this forum (except maybe 1 or 2 outliers) should have any legitimate concern of making more than $1M of capital gains per year. 

    The only ones who might be concerned with this are those who plan to liquidate their entire portfolio when they retire. Obviously, you just have spread out your sale over a couple years to avoid that issue. 


    You may not think that time will come,  but if you hold a decade or 2, you will be there.   Just hope that the government doesn't take away half of it to pay for things that other people should pay for themselves. 


     If I'm blessed enough to sell a single property that nets me more than $1M in capital gains, I would be happy to pay the taxes that support this great country. 

    It's easy to volunteer to pay money that you've never made yet,  isn't it? So that give authority to sieze other people's assets?  Thinking that way will make it even harder for an investor to achieve the success that they desire. 

    Perhaps the reason this has been a great country is because we haven't tried to bankrupt it with European style social programs, until now


     Authority to sieze assets? Thats called taxes. If you have an issue with the concept of taxes, this isn't the correct forum. 

    Otherwise, the rest of your comment is off topic for this discussion, so I'll decline to comment further. Thanks for the conversation. 

  • Investor · WI · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 11 votes
    3y

     That's a great idea!  Commentary from those who won't pay the proposed tax (while proudly supporting it) who suggest they are more patriotic than those who have built that kind of wealth (and don't support that tax) doesn't really add anything.

  • Investor · WI · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 11 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Scott Johnson:
    Quote from @Eric W.:
    Quote from @Scott Johnson:
    Quote from @Justin Moy:

    Democratic presidents always hype these things up especially around election time. The common theme is always increasing the tax on the 'rich', forgiving student loan debt, and giving out more free things. 

    98/100 times nothing happens and they know it, it's just a run at campaigning. 

    Even if it did happen, politicians will always leave loopholes (for themselves) that great tax consultants will also be able to leverage. 


     Bingo. My opinion exactly. No way he's going to close a loophole that his friends are using, but saying it gets votes from the people who watch too much television and don't think for themselves.

    I agree it's mostly just playing classes against each other to maintain power.   What I can't understand is why any investor would be enthusiastic about taxing themselves (and others), as if that makes them a patriot, or somehow makes our country better

     Yea, it's nuts. Pay the taxes that you absolutely owe, of course, but focusing on the strategies that reduce your taxes legally help to provide more productivity and housing when that money is not reinvested. 

    When a dollar goes to the government, they're far less than productive with it. That's just my opinion, of course.

    I agree with your point.   Money that stays in the private sector is spent way more efficiently,  and often has a larger local impact.   What's even worse, the government takes our money,  to build apartments (which will never be on the tax roll) next door to a property run by an investor, rent them for way less than a private owner could,  and take all the best tenants, subsidized by the taxes on the investors property.
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