Real Estate Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2010 · 64 posts · 10 votes
Hi all. At the end of the school year I had planned to move the family up to Anchorage, AK. But as fate would have it we have decided as a family to make the Portland,OR area our new home. I have a contract on my home in Maryland and want to take this opportunity to purchase a duplex in the Vancouver / Portland area (ideally by midsummer at the latest). If anyone knows of a duplex in that area up for sale, please let me know. Also if anyone knows a good buyers agent/ brokers please feel free to let me know. Thanks!
@Wesley Adams, It is best to scout the area first as @Jeff S. mentioned, and depending on what you want to accomplish, your search areas may be vastly different. It's hard in the Portland area to find a duplex as owner occupy and still get any kind of cash flow. The positive, on the other hand, is that you will have a tenant helping you build equity in your property.
Hi Wesley. The multifamily market on Portland is hot right now but there are always some opportunities out there. Email me with what price range you are looking for and I would be more than happy to send you some listings.
I'd also vote for southwest Portland but I'm biased. And you really don't want to have to drive on the freeways during rush hour - especially traveling between Portland / Vancouver. Duplexes in nice areas over here tend to be snatched up almost immediately, so you might just want to scour redfin.com for awhile to familiarize yourself with prices instead of looking at particular properties.
@Tim Roos, Thanks for the heads up. I'll keep an eye out.
@Michell P., Thanks! Luckily, I will continue to work on the North Slope of Alaska so I won't ever have to deal with rush hour traffic. I will be flying out every 2 weeks on a late flight and come back mid day two weeks later. But I will definitely keep an eye on Redfin. The hardest part lately has been finding anything with a 4br unit(s).
A 4bedroom duplex is going to be a hard find, they're not very popular over here. You might want to look at St Johns, there are a couple in the NW side of that neighborhood, but otherwise you'll probably want to find a house with an ADU instead of a duplex, if 4 bedrooms is a requirement. Goodluck!
@Michell P., Is the St. Johns area a decent area for young families (decent schools/ low crime)? Also what is an ADU? - I'm unfamiliar with the abbreviation.
Yea, I think you made a good choice in Portland. Slopers with that schedule have a hard time making sure the family gets the time they need. Portland offers way more urban amenities than ANC does and it puts the family 3 hours closer to your other relatives. Good luck on your search down there!
@Connor Dunham, Thanks! Keep me in mind if you come across any buy & hold deals in the ANC area. I would still like to do some deals in that area, but you are right about the urban amenities.
@Michell P., Is the St. Johns area a decent area for young families (decent schools/ low crime)? Also what is an ADU? - I'm unfamiliar with the abbreviation.
St. Johns is one of those neighborhoods people describe as "eclectic" and "up and coming." Definitely a neighborhood you'll have to visit to see how you like the vibe. But, crime isn't bad (which is relative, really, check out portlandmaps.com and you'll get a good feel for city stats), and the schools are OK (7/10 on zillow, a few lower ranked ones too though). Housing prices in St. Johns are still low, so expect crime and schools to improve as the area improves.
An ADU is an "accessory dwelling unit" - usually a garage or basement that has been turned into an apartment. They're pretty popular up here, but are often listed as SFHs instead of duplexes, so you have to search them out.
@Wesley Adams it will depend on the price you want to pay. St Johns may be a little cheaper. Not sure about the schools but might not be the best. Crime could be a problem in parts. St Johns is a ways out. Values hold up best in the closer-in areas; that is just the way planning has supported higher density to reduce urban sprawl. We are also surrounded by an urban growth boundry which also drives up land prices.
ADU's (additonal dwelling unit) are a result of that desire to promote density. We are allowed to build a small unit on the property for family or as a rental. Units are 5-800sf. You will primarily see this in the close-in areas of the east side. Close-in is west of I-205.
@Michell P.. Thanks so much for all your insight. I certainly appreciate it!
@Jeff S. I assumed that it would depend on price. I am looking at prices up to 550K that meet the 1% rule for starters (if I wasn't going to be occupying one side). Crime is certainly an issue. I want to owner occupy and need a safe neighborhood with good schools. When the time comes to move out and rent out both sides.. I certainly want to attract young professionals with families, so an emphasis on the aforementioned criteria is a must. Again hopefully I will get a lay of the land and understand Portland a little bit better when I'm out there in mid-April.
Your 550K budget will work. Finding a 1% ruler will be very tough. Some recent numbers we have dealt with to give you an example.....
Eliot 4 plex- paid 800K, 15K in closing costs, 10K in renovations. Rent will be up to $7,100 in July when the last tenant lease expires and brought to market rent. 800K was a screaming deal in my opinion (off market deal direct from seller) as it appraised at 800K with an estimated market rent of $5,200 from the appraiser. Those appraiser numbers are in line with the market.
Irvington - paid 425K, 150K+ in renovation (in process), market rents will be in the mid $4,000's.
Hawthorne - paid 430K, 15Kish in renovation, 4K in closing costs, new tenants and market rents of $3,500
We just sold a duplex in Brooklyn. Paid 295K, put 15K in renovations, got market rents up to $2,200 and sold for $400,000.
I'm in a rush, but wanted to post some recent market numbers from a local active plex buyer. I can clarify some numbers later if you have any questions.
You should get something awesome for that price @Wesley Adams.
Portland has different cultures. Close-in eastside has the hip and cool factor; older homes (1900-1920's), neighborhoods with younger families and great walking scores (walking score means you can walk to Starbucks and/or Wholefoods) and good transit opportunities. Westside has money in the west hills. Going a little further west you have newer style ranch and split levels newer homes.
Many of the west side homes were bought new by Boomers 30 years ago. These neighborhoods have less kids and the values while once leading the Portland area, are now trailing the higher demand areas. Beaverton is a pretty good area with less expensive homes but a different culture, or a lack of, but good values in newer style homes.
I have to agree with @Michell Prunty, the West Side has some wonderful neighborhoods and the schools are some of the best in the Portland area . . . but like Michell, I'm also biased. :-)
Hi all. At the end of the school year I had planned to move the family up to Anchorage, AK. But as fate would have it we have decided as a family to make the Portland,OR area our new home. I have a contract on my home in Maryland and want to take this opportunity to purchase a duplex in the Vancouver / Portland area (ideally by midsummer at the latest). If anyone knows of a duplex in that area up for sale, please let me know. Also if anyone knows a good buyers agent/ brokers please feel free to let me know. Thanks!
I would be glad to give you a tour of Vancouver and other great places in Southwest Washington when you visit the area. I first moved here in 1967. We own 16 residential rental units (SFHs and small plexes) and have been landlording for 20 years. We live in west Vancouver, the historic part of the city, and are only 20 minutes from the PDX airport. East county is even closer to the airport. Living north is an easy commute too, as the freeway infrastructure is good.
One of the biggest advantages of living in Washington State is no personal income tax. Alaska has no personal income tax as well. If you live in Oregon and earn money out of state, you will be required to pay personal income tax on your earnings. Keep your money in your pocket!
The schools are well funded in Southwest Washington, something else to consider when comparing Portland and Vancouver. In addition, all that Portland and the outlying areas have to offer in terms of recreation, shopping (no sales tax in Portland), and entertainment is easily accessed from Vancouver.
Real estate prices are more favorable in Vancouver as compared to Portland. Many out of state investors snatch up properties by paying more for them than the locals would. This is really putting a skew on the market. It is hard to find really good deals, but you can probably find a fair deal easy enough by working with a good realtor. The good realtors have properties available that never make it to the MLS listing because they can get them under contract at a fair price. We just bought another little house that way.
Someone paid you 400k for a duplex with rents of $1,100 a side? Please let me have their contact info I still have that R2A property off felony flats to unload on them. If that was a much more sensical $2,200 a side then ignore.
This does goes to illustrate my point I've made to several RE neophytes in the Portland area: MLS listed duplexs are probably the worst investment you can currently pursue in our market as every half backed and un-knowledgeable aspiring RE investor is determined to buy a duplex, driving the prices way above normal market. I however do like your strategy of buying them, renovating them, and selling them to "investors" with determination, emotional investment all combined with poor math skills.
@Wesley Adams I moved down from Anchorage (Army) Nov 2013 to Camas, WA. The draw to Camas for me was the schools and an easy commute to work (PDX). Good points in @Marcia Maynard post above!
Forgive me if I repeat anything already said in the previous posts, I just scanned the responses... Where you buy is really going to depend on what you're ultimately looking for and what kind of area's you are comfortable looking in. Close in Portland is going to have a "hip" feel to it with lots of brew pubs, coffee shops and an eclectic mix of people. Then there are the cheaper area's around Rockwood, Brooklyn, or Lents that aren't super desirable to live in but will offer a lower purchase price, and there's everything in between.
Vancouver is typically going to have better numbers from an investment standpoint and has about the same range of high to low end but doesn't really have the same culture Portland has. Which is good or bad depending on your stance.
Ultimately Vancouver is the better option if you are looking at it strictly as an investment, lower FMVs, similar rents, lower property taxes, etc. Inner Portland is probably a "cooler" place to live for most.
@Marcia Maynard Hi, and sorry to "but in" on your conversation with Wesley Adams but was reading your reply and thought I would say hello. I am currently in China, but will be relocating to the Portland/Vancouver area from Monday the 23rd of March. I am interested in Portland/Vancouver real estate (mostly fix and flip type stuff) and noticed your comment about finding a house from a realtor at a fair price. Any information about good realtors in the area would be appreciated.
You read it right. $1,100 in rent at time of close. The other unit was actually vacant, but will easily be rented at $1,100 in this market (probably $1,200 - $1,300). The zoning was actually commercial. Not all buyers will see the benefit of commercial zoning, but this one did. The duplex was on SE 9th, literally three minutes from downtown. The demand in inner SE Portland is strong.