Looking for buy-and-hold MF in midwest or southeast

Looking for buy-and-hold MF in midwest or southeast

Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 51 posts · 48 votes

Howdy!  Been lurking here for a while to pick up some data/observations on different markets.  In the process of selling a commercial property here in Austin and looking for replacement property.  (Austin has become a seller's market, and even San Antonio seems to have gotten frothy.  Besides, Texas property taxes can really impact your returns.)  Looking for class B - C MF properties with between 8 and 60 units - multiple properties are okay but would prefer that they be in the same market to facilitate management.  Turn-key is preferred but willing to consider a value-add deal.  Plan is to use  $1.6m of our own money and $800k from the bank.  (Might take on a bit more debt for the right property.)  Focusing on income over appreciation as this is our retirement, although my wife and I have several non-RE streams of income.  Have an experienced real estate attorney and bank that will work with us.

Looking at OK City, Kansas City, Cleveland and Chicago, and possibly some markets in the southeast and mid-atlantic.  Sub-markets near these and smaller markets are okay so long as they give us the income for the money spent.  Plan is to reach out to brokers and PM firms in those areas to establish relationships that could lead to off-market properties.  More than willing to hop on a plane to scout properties and meet with brokers/PMs.  While this will be a 1031 deal, the buyers of our property are willing to be flexible re the closing date to give us sufficient time to find replacement properties.

Would love to receive feedback on any of the above markets or any others that might meet our criteria.  Like I said before, primary focus is income - appreciation is secondary as we plan to hold this awhile.

Thanks in advance!

John

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Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
8y
Originally posted by @John Umphress:

Howdy!  Been lurking here for a while to pick up some data/observations on different markets.  In the process of selling a commercial property here in Austin and looking for replacement property.  (Austin has become a seller's market, and even San Antonio seems to have gotten frothy.  Besides, Texas property taxes can really impact your returns.)  Looking for class B - C MF properties with between 8 and 60 units - multiple properties are okay but would prefer that they be in the same market to facilitate management.  Turn-key is preferred but willing to consider a value-add deal.  Plan is to use  $1.6m of our own money and $800k from the bank.  (Might take on a bit more debt for the right property.)  Focusing on income over appreciation as this is our retirement, although my wife and I have several non-RE streams of income.  Have an experienced real estate attorney and bank that will work with us.

Looking at OK City, Kansas City, Cleveland and Chicago, and possibly some markets in the southeast and mid-atlantic.  Sub-markets near these and smaller markets are okay so long as they give us the income for the money spent.  Plan is to reach out to brokers and PM firms in those areas to establish relationships that could lead to off-market properties.  More than willing to hop on a plane to scout properties and meet with brokers/PMs.  While this will be a 1031 deal, the buyers of our property are willing to be flexible re the closing date to give us sufficient time to find replacement properties.

Would love to receive feedback on any of the above markets or any others that might meet our criteria.  Like I said before, primary focus is income - appreciation is secondary as we plan to hold this awhile.

Thanks in advance!

John

 A few thoughts on this. It's not really that complicated to buy out of state. It only becomes complicated when investors try to over complicate or over think everything. Whenever you are buying a property out of state you should do a few things to ensure it's as smooth as possible.

  • Don't buy in the roughest neighborhood in the urban core. Pick a solid B-Class suburban area. Perhaps a nice 1950's built bungalow.
  • Always hire a 3rd party property inspector to give you an unbiased feel for the home. The reports are 40-90 pages long and go through the entire house in great detail.
  • Get an appraisal. If your using financing the bank requires this. This is good. The bank isn't going to let you blow their money. They have more skin in the game then you do.
  • Make sure you get clear title. If using a lender this is a non issue. They will make you do this. It's those maniacs that buy homes cash via quit claim deed off of craigslist that really get screwed.
  • Make sure your property manager is a licensed real estate brokerage.
  • Understand you can not eliminate all risk, only mitigate it. If you are risk adverse real estate, (especially out of state) is not for you.

As for the specific markets you mentioned I know Cleveland. If you want to delve into this market further check out The Ultimate Guide to Grading Cleveland Neighborhoods.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Rental Property Investor · Broken Arrow, OK · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    Oklahoma City and Tulsa Metro and surrounding areas are great, and our property taxes are very low here.

  • Ronald RohdePro Member
    Attorney · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    Sounds like quite a wide set of criteria. $2.4m for an 8 unit property? I don't think rent outside of the coasts will cover anything like that.

  • Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 7 posts · 2 votes
    8y

    I have a multifamily located in Chicago Woodlawn neighborhood  already rehabbed and tenanted . DM me if interested. 

  • Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 51 posts · 48 votes
    8y

    Ronald,

    Perhaps I should clarify - looking for properties 8 units and larger, not a single 8 unit.

    John

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @John Umphress:

    Howdy!  Been lurking here for a while to pick up some data/observations on different markets.  In the process of selling a commercial property here in Austin and looking for replacement property.  (Austin has become a seller's market, and even San Antonio seems to have gotten frothy.  Besides, Texas property taxes can really impact your returns.)  Looking for class B - C MF properties with between 8 and 60 units - multiple properties are okay but would prefer that they be in the same market to facilitate management.  Turn-key is preferred but willing to consider a value-add deal.  Plan is to use  $1.6m of our own money and $800k from the bank.  (Might take on a bit more debt for the right property.)  Focusing on income over appreciation as this is our retirement, although my wife and I have several non-RE streams of income.  Have an experienced real estate attorney and bank that will work with us.

    Looking at OK City, Kansas City, Cleveland and Chicago, and possibly some markets in the southeast and mid-atlantic.  Sub-markets near these and smaller markets are okay so long as they give us the income for the money spent.  Plan is to reach out to brokers and PM firms in those areas to establish relationships that could lead to off-market properties.  More than willing to hop on a plane to scout properties and meet with brokers/PMs.  While this will be a 1031 deal, the buyers of our property are willing to be flexible re the closing date to give us sufficient time to find replacement properties.

    Would love to receive feedback on any of the above markets or any others that might meet our criteria.  Like I said before, primary focus is income - appreciation is secondary as we plan to hold this awhile.

    Thanks in advance!

    John

     A few thoughts on this. It's not really that complicated to buy out of state. It only becomes complicated when investors try to over complicate or over think everything. Whenever you are buying a property out of state you should do a few things to ensure it's as smooth as possible.

    • Don't buy in the roughest neighborhood in the urban core. Pick a solid B-Class suburban area. Perhaps a nice 1950's built bungalow.
    • Always hire a 3rd party property inspector to give you an unbiased feel for the home. The reports are 40-90 pages long and go through the entire house in great detail.
    • Get an appraisal. If your using financing the bank requires this. This is good. The bank isn't going to let you blow their money. They have more skin in the game then you do.
    • Make sure you get clear title. If using a lender this is a non issue. They will make you do this. It's those maniacs that buy homes cash via quit claim deed off of craigslist that really get screwed.
    • Make sure your property manager is a licensed real estate brokerage.
    • Understand you can not eliminate all risk, only mitigate it. If you are risk adverse real estate, (especially out of state) is not for you.

    As for the specific markets you mentioned I know Cleveland. If you want to delve into this market further check out The Ultimate Guide to Grading Cleveland Neighborhoods.

  • Rental Property Investor · St. Paul, MN · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    @John Umphress I would consider putting 50% or more debt on the building. Your overall cash flow will increase as well as your ROI and you will still have $1.6mm in equity. I like OKC and Kansas City. I also like these markets:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/10145/68178-to...

  • Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 51 posts · 48 votes
    8y

    Todd,  thanks for your thoughts.  We may take on more debt if the value is there, but some of the most sage advice I ever received was from a long-time real estate developer:  "Have a plan to hang on to your property at least a decade."  His thinking was if you had the misfortune of buying at the top of the market, ten years would allow you to weather the inevitable downturn and make it to the next upswing.  We are fortunate that we have a fair amount of our own money to play with.

    My idea is to work from OKC northward up I-35.  I have a good friend who has deep contacts in Oklahoma RE that he will connect me with.  Also have contacts in KC.  Have looked at Memphis and Detroit and there is unquestionably opportunity there.  If I was 10 or 15 years younger I would be more willing to take a shot at them.  There are some select markets in the southeast that I will look at if I can't find anything in OKC, KC or Des Moines but I imagine I will find acceptable properties in those cities first.  As I look at properties in those locales, I will also be scouting property management firms - I know how that can make or break you!

    Thanks again!

  • Rental Property Investor · St. Paul, MN · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    @John Umphress I agree with your friends advice - plan on holding for 10 or more years. If you hold for that long and get a Fannie/Freddie loan or better yet a HUD loan, think of the principal that you could pay down and the depreciation. I think OKC and tulsa areas could serve you well. Des Moines is very saturated right now.

  • Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HAWAII (HI) · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y
    John Umphress I would try and start with a sfh or two then graduate to mfh. I started with turnkey and it’s a great way to learn with a small amount of capital and risk.
  • Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 51 posts · 48 votes
    8y

    Lane,  thanks but I already own a small MF property in San Antonio - bought it a year ago via a 1031 exchange.  Went looking down there again last month and the pickings are slim (and prices higher) which is why I'm looking out-of-state.   You may have missed it my original post that I have a fair sum of money in another 1031 that I have to spend - trying to identify/close on a bunch of SF units within the time constraints is no fun.  Also, I would rather own two or three buildings instead of 20!

  • Shawnee Mission, KS · Member since 2018 · 23 posts · 15 votes
    8y

    Kansas City is a great market for all class sf investment homes. Turn key class B - C homes are available for those in off market conduits. A bit tougher, but still very doable on MLS / FSBO channels. Totally agree with @James Wise on securing inspections, clear title and the default appraisals.  On the KS side of Kansas City, the foreclosure laws for WY and JO counties ensure clear tax burdens prior to any sales.  MO side of Kansas City needs a bit more due diligence in the same channels.  Do you homework and deals on both sides of the state line can be had in KC. 

  • Mike D'ArrigoPro Member
    Turn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    @John Umphress Out of the markets that you mentioned, personally I like Kansas City the best. It not only has strong cash flow but good economic and demographic fundamentals. The chart below might give you a good perspective. 

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