RE Mentor - Multifamily bootcamp
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Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
8yIt's just another income stream. When people build companies they have multiple ways to make revenue.
Early in the cycle deals are abundant so those with experience tend to buy as much as they can as fast as they can. When deals get harder to find top of the cycle then more emphasis can be put on teaching while still looking for harder to find properties and that network can be pushed out like an army of ants to find more properties.
Sometimes I get contacted by people that want to learn about commercial retail but are not at the level of my typical client. I am developing courses that they can buy.
For instance someone has a net worth of 500k but wants to buy something at 500k. I do not have the time to educate them intensely on the process for a check of maybe 15,000. I am already doing that with clients to make 100k plus per transaction. It can also work for say investors that contact me that are accredited but they do not feel comfortable putting in 800,000 down on one property so then instead they can invest with me as a sponsor at a lesser amount to start.
You have to kind of meet people where they are and offer them options. If someone has worked very hard for decades on systems and processes and a high quality network then I believe in most cases there is no issue monetizing that knowledge. I will say the multifamily market is flooded with people all doing educational stuff. It has almost gotten just as bad as flipping companies that go across the country. The educational companies tend to make money and then plow it back into hard real estate assets.
I think it is almost a pipedream for people to expect someone highly successful to spend all this time with them for a nominal return. The example I gave above making 1,500 for 50 hours time at 30 bucks an hour. WHY would I do that when I can close a transaction in that same span of time with a client that pays 80k to 100k?? I would lose money going backwards in income working on such stuff.
If people have time but limited money or are not willing to spend the money then on Bigger Pockets here if you go search and read topics there is a lot of gold in there. When I started I read on this site like crazy,read books at Barnes and Noble bookstore, went to association meetings, etc. If people instead want everything wrapped up into a nice little bow and presented to them with less work then that comes at a PREMIUM to pay as the people that created that put a ton of work into developing those systems and processes. Sometimes a local investor might take an interest in a new investor but even then their time is valuable so they might can answer the occasional question but if someone wants constant help they do not typically have time for that. Now it is rare but occasionally you can find an investor nearing retirement that wants to leave a legacy of their knowledge to someone else and help someone out. You can't be marginal though they have to usually see something really special in that investor starting out where they feel their time is well spent educating them and bringing them along.
I think newer investors type people just have a very skewed idea of how this stuff typically works.
35 Replies
- 8yRobbie ReutzelBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Shirley, MA · Member since 2014 · 305 posts · 211 votes
They're not bad. You'll get a good background. I've been to several. Dave hasn't been teaching them for a while now. Realize that a lot of the bootcamp is an up-sell to the $50K coaching program.
I'm not as negative on coaching as some are around here but that's obviously a high price-point.
Good luck!
- 8yMichael DangPro MemberRental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 454 posts · 273 votes
Haven't attended Dave Lindahl's bootcamp but I have attended a couple of others. Feel free to contact me and I'll share my experience and opinions.
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes8y
Vee are you trying to own directly,start a syndicate yourself, or invest passively with a sponsor on a project?
Sometimes investors who are passively investing with sponsors can invest with them and get knowledge and some training along the way. If you buy into a program just for a program then you really have no immediate return on money or cash flow. At that point you have information but still need to find the deal and have additional guidance.
1,495 is cheap. You have to remember people active in the space are making thousands to tens of thousands per hour for their time. The person that invented the course is typically NOT going to go one on one for 50 hours of time over many months to make 1,495 bucks. That would equate to about a measly 30 bucks an hour.
- Rental Property Investor · Glen Rock, NJ · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes8y
@Vee L. So @Robbie Reutzel summed it up well. If you are a complete beginner the boot camp will be beneficial for you. Plus you get a networking component. Otherwise, there's a major concentration on the up-sell, especially during the second half of the boot-camp.
If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me.
- Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Robbie Reutzel:
They're not bad. You'll get a good background. I've been to several. Dave hasn't been teaching them for a while now. Realize that a lot of the bootcamp is an up-sell to the $50K coaching program.
I'm not as negative on coaching as some are around here but that's obviously a high price-point.
Good luck!
$50K coaching program - are you kidding me? Wow! You could get a real education, setup your business and have enough money for a serious online marketing campaign with that much capital.
You know the saying about when a person with money, meets a person with experience...
P.S. Good for Dave Lindahl! If his company can convince people to fork over this much cash, they deserve to laugh all the way to the bank.
- 8yRobbie ReutzelBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Shirley, MA · Member since 2014 · 305 posts · 211 votes
He gets hundreds of people to attend his events and a few usually join each time but really it's the difference between making money investing and making money as a guru. I would bet his educational company is much more profitable than his investing business at this point but I don't know for sure.
- Member since 2018 · 18 posts · 1 vote8y@Michael Dang hey mike would love to here about your Experience in some of the boot camps. I would love to start attending some
- Member since 2018 · 18 posts · 1 vote8y@Alina Trigub would love to get more info on how to sign up for such a boot camp I’m from New York
- Penryn, CA · Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 6 votes8yVee, I don't have any personal experience of taking any guru courses, but I have many friends and family members that have. They have spent upwards to $32,000 on their final course! If you have money to throw away by all means attend these courses. However, all the information that you could possibly think of is at your fingertips. I highly recommend you put this money towards a house and get ahead in life instead of behind. Good luck. Warmest Regards
- Rental Property Investor · Glen Rock, NJ · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes8y
William, if you're looking to sign up for RE Mentor boot camp, you just register on their website with identical name. If you want to chat further, PM me directly.
Originally posted by @William Dolinko:
@Michael Dang hey mike would love to here about your Experience in some of the boot camps. I would love to start attending some - Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes8y
It's just another income stream. When people build companies they have multiple ways to make revenue.
Early in the cycle deals are abundant so those with experience tend to buy as much as they can as fast as they can. When deals get harder to find top of the cycle then more emphasis can be put on teaching while still looking for harder to find properties and that network can be pushed out like an army of ants to find more properties.
Sometimes I get contacted by people that want to learn about commercial retail but are not at the level of my typical client. I am developing courses that they can buy.
For instance someone has a net worth of 500k but wants to buy something at 500k. I do not have the time to educate them intensely on the process for a check of maybe 15,000. I am already doing that with clients to make 100k plus per transaction. It can also work for say investors that contact me that are accredited but they do not feel comfortable putting in 800,000 down on one property so then instead they can invest with me as a sponsor at a lesser amount to start.
You have to kind of meet people where they are and offer them options. If someone has worked very hard for decades on systems and processes and a high quality network then I believe in most cases there is no issue monetizing that knowledge. I will say the multifamily market is flooded with people all doing educational stuff. It has almost gotten just as bad as flipping companies that go across the country. The educational companies tend to make money and then plow it back into hard real estate assets.
I think it is almost a pipedream for people to expect someone highly successful to spend all this time with them for a nominal return. The example I gave above making 1,500 for 50 hours time at 30 bucks an hour. WHY would I do that when I can close a transaction in that same span of time with a client that pays 80k to 100k?? I would lose money going backwards in income working on such stuff.
If people have time but limited money or are not willing to spend the money then on Bigger Pockets here if you go search and read topics there is a lot of gold in there. When I started I read on this site like crazy,read books at Barnes and Noble bookstore, went to association meetings, etc. If people instead want everything wrapped up into a nice little bow and presented to them with less work then that comes at a PREMIUM to pay as the people that created that put a ton of work into developing those systems and processes. Sometimes a local investor might take an interest in a new investor but even then their time is valuable so they might can answer the occasional question but if someone wants constant help they do not typically have time for that. Now it is rare but occasionally you can find an investor nearing retirement that wants to leave a legacy of their knowledge to someone else and help someone out. You can't be marginal though they have to usually see something really special in that investor starting out where they feel their time is well spent educating them and bringing them along.
I think newer investors type people just have a very skewed idea of how this stuff typically works.
- 8yVee L.Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 18 posts · 5 votesOP
@joel, I agree with you that if you have to pay a coach $50k and if in return you can make $500k from that coaching program, then you have made a well investment.
I really appreciate all the inputs here. I've been investing in single family for 4 years, and its' treating me well and that is due to the ability to align myself with other successful investors. I also have some mentors who've helped me. I totally believe in education. I think unless you are Warren Buffet or Steve Jobs, you could always use some coaching. All great athletics have coaches, but not all coaches are athletics. It's just that I've been to a few courses where they give you a lot of motivational speeches but no real technical content. So I'm doing my homework on which program to invest my time and money in, more so on the time..
So yes to coaching and yes to education, the question is which program provides more technical content and real connections that can help me to grow.
- Rental Property Investor · Member since 2018 · 40 posts · 46 votes7y
My son began PSB Investment Group. I joined him. We went to a Lindahl bootcamp. We were educated newbies before attending. I knew about single family rentals. My son had educated himself, for free, about Apartments.
At the bootcamp the main push is to tell you so much stuff that you are afraid to go it on your own and really feel the need for a coach/mentor. Getting that first LOI out there is scary - what if they accept.
I would agree with alot that @Joel Owens had to say.
You can do a great deal of your own education if you keep digging and digging.
If you have $20-$50k you will get a coach, they will hold you hand, they will push you, they will help you understand underwriting, they will help you in many, many ways. Unfortunately, most will never buy an apartment.
Our first deal happened about 14 months after we started in the business. We closed on a 101 unit in Ohio June 29.
By the time we went to the bootcamp, my son had already had an LOI accepted. Unfortuately there were two reasons he didn't complete the deal. 1) The broker fudged the numbers and 2) he didn't have enough sources of investors to pull the whole thing together.
At the bootcamp, when we met with the 'salesman' to help us decide - he out and out said there may not be much they can teach us. I and my son were surprised. We ended up getting coaching for 6 months at $14,000 mainly because they would review all of our deals before submitting an LOI for a year - plus the other events that are included. The Sponsorship one is the best.
As it turned out, after about 3 LOI's we didn't need their help. We didn't get alot out of the coach. Lindahl has a wealth of information for his coaching students on line. The bootcamp is not a great place to network, unless you can find people with money to invest, because most know as little as you do. Some, with money to invest, don't realize how hard it is to get a deal - so making their contact is great.
Would I recommend a coaching program? If you don't know anything and the coaching fee is not going to kill you and you really think you will do it, then yes. For a raw newbie it is a big help.We continue to attend Lindahl's other events even though they are a pitchfest of his and others programs. We go to those for the networking.
I know that the BaltimoreREIA has a Commercial Profits program that has much of the same information. They are talking about making it into a video course. When they do, I'll probably buy it for reference. i went through it and it was very, very good - but that's in Baltimore Maryland ($1595 I think - coming up soon (I get no $ from it))
I don't disagree that someone very successful should charge for their time, and maybe when I get there I will change my mind, but I do think that some of these prices are too high. I hope they remember what it was like when they were at the beginning.
- Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2012 · 36 posts · 23 votes7y
@Vee L. if you've already got 4 years of investing under your belt, I think the only benefit from this would be the network, but at that price point, I think you would be wise to invest your time and money else where. As someone already alluded to, as far as information goes, you can teach yourself anything via the internet these days, on your own time and at very little cost. Between blogs (and vlogs), podcasts and books, there is a ton of information available and since you already have experience you can tailor the knowledge you are looking for on your own rather than forking over a ton of money for what will inevitably be a broad overview and an up-sell.
- Developer · TX - Dallas TX - San Pablo, Philippines · Member since 2018 · 2 posts · 2 votes7y
Hi @Vee L. - I went to a RE Mentor workshop last week just to get some ideas on Multi-Family, Dave's overall concept is ok, but there were definitely gaps not covered or mentioned, such as setting up Reserves - and they really tried to push you to goto their Boot Camp. As an aside, you can purchase their Boot Camp materials stand alone, but I agree with the other posts here, self-education and just getting out there (taking action) can work but to find a REAL Mentor is like gold... I prefer someone I know personally and has a vested interest in me, not just some stranger whom I don't know - it's the old adage, "know your client" and that shares your values....I think @Joel Owens said it best, that many just use us (you) to bring them the deals when the market is tight and may not have your best interest in mind. My view continues to be, "what can I do different, what's my niche, instead of following the herd in a saturated marketplace where everyone seems to be flipping and dealing" - currently I'm doing more International and looking to build a Brand of Eco-Resorts.
- Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 73 posts · 57 votes7y
Today is Day 2 of Dave Lindahl's 3-day boot camp in Downey, CA. A lot of information was presented, but surely not enough to help you feel comfortable enough to do a deal! That much comfort costs $38,999--today only, of course--otherwise, $44,000. It seems to me that 44 grand would go a long way toward buying lunches for people you meet at various networking events. I also think that everything you need to know can be found here on Bigger Pockets and/or a Bigger Pockets Pro account (<$500/year). What's the difference if you find the information you need here or on Lindahl's members-only website? None.
- MD · Member since 2018 · 36 posts · 2 votes7y
I recently attended a RE Mentor workshop just to see what MF investing was about since I only now focus on SF. It was informative and I learned the concepts at a high level but did not sign up for the bootcamp. Reading through this thread has been very helpful in understanding how these guru/expert programs work and why they exist...good and bad.
Interesting that a couple people here mentioned there being an up sell at the bootcamp because the presenter at the workshop specifically stated there was no up sell (I asked him directly) and that you get access to everything you need e.g., a system, mentoring and funding access once you attend the camp.
- Lanham Maryland / Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2018 · 4 posts · 0 votes7y
I've been to a Lindahl boot camp. There is a lot of information that will be beneficial to you if you're just getting started. They also give you their underwriting software although don't teach you how to use it, it's not too difficult to figure out. With the literature you receive you really can figure out how to close a multifamily deal.
- Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 1 post · 1 vote7y
I truly appreciate this thread because I was about to sign up for RE Mentor. I will continue my path of self education for the time being to save thousands of dollars.
- Realtor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2009 · 107 posts · 69 votes7y
@Leslie McCalop Are you allowed to keep the information? And did you pay the $1500 only or signed up for the other classes?
- Lanham Maryland / Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2018 · 4 posts · 0 votes7y
Yes, you’re allowed to keep the information. I was actually a guest of the person who signed up for the boot camp so I’m not quite sure how much she paid.
- Lanham Maryland / Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2018 · 4 posts · 0 votes7y
Yes, you’re allowed to keep the information. I was actually a guest of the person who signed up for the boot camp so I’m not quite sure how much she paid.
Originally posted by @Daniel Umstead:
@Leslie McCalop Are you allowed to keep the information? And did you pay the $1500 only or signed up for the other classes?
- Member since 2019 · 1 post · 1 vote7y
Hi Vee
I recently went to the 3 day bootcamp with RE mentor. I met a woman at the first RE Mentor meeting and we decided to split the 1500 cost. We were both interested to hear more realizing that it sounded to good to be true. Because we are new at commercial property we found info helpful. I will use info to expand my knowledge since I payed for it! I later learned my nephew is educating himself on you tube, seminars, podcast (free) with same info I received at RE Mentor that I payed 700 for. I agree with all the comments made here that it is way too much money for mentoring which is what they really, really push. I was surprised by the number of people who signed up for mentoring. We calculated that at end of 3 day workshop RE Mentor made more than half a million dollars! They made plenty of money selling the mentoring package. I agree with the gentleman that stated that they probably use the education piece to supplement what they cant get when market is slow and that you are basically helping them find deals. That is the gist of it.
Part of the mentoring involves phone contact with a mentor for one hour. Personally for all that money you can educate yourself.
I chose not to continue but the person that I originally partnered with decided to go for it. She partnered with someone else who also wanted the mentoring.
I agree with the comments here that instead of paying that much money to someone else you can educate yourself with the many info available on line and seminars.
- Real Estate Agent · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 69 posts · 83 votes7y
@Vee L. We joined the RE Mentor family last March (2018). Since then we have closed on two properties (117 units total) and under contract on three more (360 units, 48 units, 89 units). The only reason we have been able to be successful is because of the education we gained through RE Mentor. Was higher than some of the other groups, but was also a lot more thorough I feel than some. This is a group that truly cares about their students. Although Dave no longer teaches, he employs top producers to teach and coach the students. In no way did I feel like I was missing out by not having Dave as our teacher. The teachers and coaches all have to own a certain amount successfully before they can be on stage. Overall I would give the Lindahl Group 5 stars.
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