Developer · Denver, CO · Member since 2019 · 273 posts · 106 votes
Good morning everyone!
I'm interested in the overall general feeling from those of you in the real estate world on tiny homes, more specifically mobile tiny homes. Like the ones they show on TV. I'm personally building my own tiny home and am working to establish a pilot community for THoW's in the Denver metro area. I really do believe these small structures can offer a solution to housing issues in the short term and may even be a long term solution for many.
Being a part of the movement, I understand the mindset or as I like to call it the "psychographics" of the people choosing tiny living. Does anyone have experience with these small structures? Or dare I say it... a mobile home community?
I love the tiny home movement, the people that choose this lifestyle and pouring the efforts into turning the movement into a legit industry!
#LegalizeTiny!
My home: Meraki [Greek- μεράκι] - To put a little of oneself into what you do, whatever it may be.
Tiny homes are a fad. Most buyers/builders spend far more than they are worth and rarely stay with them very long. Resale is very low due to limited buyers. Most are worth 50% or less that what they cost.
Most quickly discover they are not practical and realise their money is better invested in a conventional home where it retains value and usually appreciates.
RVs and small mobile homes have existed for 60+ years. No reason to reinvent the wheel at twice the cost.
They've been getting a ton of press lately, both good and bad including a short documentary. I think they are located in RiNo as of now but have had some negative reactions from the locals there, even got raided by the cops at one point if I remember correctly. They were supposed to move to a new spot earlier this year but that fell through so now I think they're trying to move up to Globeville there behind the McDonald's but have had some pushback on that idea too.
Maybe you could link up with these guys (if you haven't already), as it seems they've been navigating the legal system as it relates to tiny homes in the Denver area for a few years. Their model is more geared for the homeless population as a charity compared to what it sounds like your model would be, but I imagine there would be some crossover with what you're talking about at least on the regulation side.
I spent most of my 20's living in vehicles being a climbing bum (from as small as a Suburu wagon to as big as an old school bus, and even managed to keep attractive girlfriends around most of the time, so don't listen to these negative Nancys on here, chicks actually really dig this stuff). For me I'm fine dealing with a space that small, it's actually preferable in a zen way. But I do like to be able to jump into the driver's seat and hit the gas when things get weird, so I really like having access to the cab from the living space, and an operable motor of course. Here's my current "tiny home":
They've been getting a ton of press lately, both good and bad including a short documentary. I think they are located in RiNo as of now but have had some negative reactions from the locals there, even got raided by the cops at one point if I remember correctly. They were supposed to move to a new spot earlier this year but that fell through so now I think they're trying to move up to Globeville there behind the McDonald's but have had some pushback on that idea too.
Maybe you could link up with these guys (if you haven't already), as it seems they've been navigating the legal system as it relates to tiny homes in the Denver area for a few years. Their model is more geared for the homeless population as a charity compared to what it sounds like your model would be, but I imagine there would be some crossover with what you're talking about at least on the regulation side.
I spent most of my 20's living in vehicles being a climbing bum (from as small as a Suburu wagon to as big as an old school bus, and even managed to keep attractive girlfriends around most of the time, so don't listen to these negative Nancys on here, chicks actually really dig this stuff). For me I'm fine dealing with a space that small, it's actually preferable in a zen way. But I do like to be able to jump into the driver's seat and hit the gas when things get weird, so I really like having access to the cab from the living space, and an operable motor of course. Here's my current "tiny home":
Yes, Steve I've been following. As much as the need is great for the homeless, I'm trying to not associate what I'm trying to do with that sector. There are already a lot of great organisations working that front. My focus is the test of us who just want to live tiny.
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2019 · 48 posts · 38 votes
7y
@Account Closed I can see two implementations of small houses:
Small house park constructed using shipping containers to enhance a modern look and keep costs down with reasonable square footage with shared amenities
Small houses built as a larger assisted living community. Folks move in who don't need space anyway and benefit from an on-premises on-call nursing station
I've researched shipping containers only slightly but feel that or assisted living could be a draw for this type of housing community. For what you don't receive in rents you might more than make up with state grants.
@Account Closed I can see two implementations of small houses:
Small house park constructed using shipping containers to enhance a modern look and keep costs down with reasonable square footage with shared amenities
Small houses built as a larger assisted living community. Folks move in who don't need space anyway and benefit from an on-premises on-call nursing station
I've researched shipping containers only slightly but feel that or assisted living could be a draw for this type of housing community. For what you don't receive in rents you might more than make up with state grants.
//adam
I'm focusing more on a BYOH concept. The need is greatest for the people out there already living in tiny homes, illegally. There's an estimated 80,000 living under the radar right now and an untold amount ready to switch to tiny living if there were some place to put their home.
Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
I will not invest in this type of housing, but it definitely caught by attention. My immediate ideas:
First, with the advent of AIRBNB, some of these tiny homes can be rented out in vacation areas - lakefront homes, out in the country/ woods. A step up from camping.
Also, in blighted urban areas, this is an easy way to develop some low income housing.
Rental Property Investor · Buffalo, MN · Member since 2010 · 511 posts · 92 votes
7y
@Joe Callantine I find this very interesting. Keep us updated on your progress. Part of me really likes how simple things are when it comes to tiny homes.
1 of my criteria for sfh's is small sq ft, less than a 1K. Yes, there are draw backs, but there is a market.
I will not invest in this type of housing, but it definitely caught by attention. My immediate ideas:
First, with the advent of AIRBNB, some of these tiny homes can be rented out in vacation areas - lakefront homes, out in the country/ woods. A step up from camping.
Also, in blighted urban areas, this is an easy way to develop some low income housing.
Totally understand Brian. Thank you for your post. There's certainly a need and most definitely a desire! We're at a critical point right now to emerge from being a movement into a FULL FLEDGED industry. What I'm feverishly trying to create is a template that can be used nationwide, with a few tweaks to any given locale, as proof tiny homes work.
@Joe Callantine I find this very interesting. Keep us updated on your progress. Part of me really likes how simple things are when it comes to tiny homes.
1 of my criteria for sfh's is small sq ft, less than a 1K. Yes, there are draw backs, but there is a market.
It's about square inches Brian, not square feet! Thoughtful design and multiple use of space. Most tiny homes built are fairly custom to the individual's needs. Either they do it themselves or they work with a professional tiny home builder to get the features and aspects that are most important to them.
Property Manager · Denver, CO · Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 5 votes
7y
@Joe Callantine I'm in the Denver metro too and would love to connect. Thanks for bringing up a great topic. I have a close personal connection working in the same vein as you. She is planning for a tiny home this summer. Thanks again. Great post. Love the mindset.
@Joe Callantine I'm in the Denver metro too and would love to connect. Thanks for bringing up a great topic. I have a close personal connection working in the same vein as you. She is planning for a tiny home this summer. Thanks again. Great post. Love the mindset.
Lender · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2017 · 658 posts · 626 votes
7y
FYI -- Designer Cottages is a Berkshire Hathaway company selling tiny homes in a couple of locations. The floor plans are under 500 sq ft and the starting price exceeds $100k. Clayton Homes, another Berkshire Hathaway company, claims in a FAQ on the site's Learn page its manufactured homes comply with the new FEMA standards for wind events.
The Boomers are the pig in a python now entering their retirement years en masse and many want to retire in place. One of my former neighbors in San Jose (of the Greatest Generation) retired in place using the long-term care coverage he had as a World War II veteran and retired worker of a company that offered such a plan as an employee perk. His alternative was to sell his home and use the money to pay for a nursing home stay, but he wanted to live in the home where he had been living for the past 50 years. I've read where some Silicon Valley entrepreneurs and venture capitalists with aging parents are looking at this emerging market for business opportunities where technology might make a difference.
For those retirees who want to live unassisted in a smaller place (less costly to buy and maintain) might want to consider a tiny home in a location with a low cost of living. If autonomous vehicles really happen, these people will not be forced to give up the car keys when they're in their 80s. Just a thought on a potential demographic niche.
Rental Property Investor · Lexington, KY · Member since 2018 · 40 posts · 26 votes
7y
@Joe Callantine
I think there’s great potential in areas with a shortage of affordable and quality housing with a reasonable (15-30 minute) commute to work. I live in Maine and the heating costs are brutal, regardless of who pays, so a small, insulated home makes a ton of sense. I’ve been researching it and see barriers with zoning, water and sewer - but I also see opportunity if those barriers can be overcome.
I think there’s great potential in areas with a shortage of affordable and quality housing with a reasonable (15-30 minute) commute to work. I live in Maine and the heating costs are brutal, regardless of who pays, so a small, insulated home makes a ton of sense. I’ve been researching it and see barriers with zoning, water and sewer - but I also see opportunity if those barriers can be overcome.
Indeed They can be overcome. I'm looking at master tap options or maybe even a tap to a water tower then distribute from there. Zoning is slowly coming around as we push the movement forward!
Affordable housing is a huge issue in this country. Could tiny houses be the solution?
The tv shows regularly outline custom built mahogany built ins. It defeats the purpose if it costs as much as a stick built home.
I have know people who lived in Manhattan in 300 Sq Ft. It just seems like it would be just uncomfortable to live in that little space.
The shows are dramatized and rather extravagant. The REAL tiny homes are more simple and built to the needs of the occupants. I believe that smaller housing can and will be a solution for many!
If you ever get a chance, go to a tiny home festival/show/event. They have some nice, yet simple homes on display!
Developer · Denver, CO · Member since 2019 · 273 posts · 106 votes
7y
So... here's my question. If I'm trying to get a venture/angel/impact fund investor, what would be a decent exit strategy to eventually get them out of the picture in 5 or so years? I've seen where some investors want HUGE returns and that really defeats the goal on keeping rent/lease/ownership fees low for a community like this.
Rental Property Investor · Littleton, CO · Member since 2014 · 150 posts · 114 votes
7y
I think it depends how tiny, there is a huge difference in terms of livabilty between a 250' home and a 450' home or a 600' home. All are small compared to the standard American house. I just don't see people living in them long-term, could work for a single but a couple in a 250' home with one work-at home spouse (which is increasingly popular) would be rough long-term, or if a single finds a partner who has a lot of shoes or bikes, doesn't want to climb into a loft bed, etc., For a vacation home or for a short time span, they are great. Single-wide mobile homes are 600 to 1300'. That is livable, 1300' very livable with kids.
My tiny home has a "garage" for bikes and outdoor gear. The only place that you'll have to kneel or crawl into is the office, which you'd be sitting at the computer any way and my sleeping area is full height. Plus, my living and sleeping areas are opposite of each other to allow for that "space". I don't want kids and that'll be a requirement for when I find a husband.
My tiny home has a "garage" for bikes and outdoor gear. The only place that you'll have to kneel or crawl into is the office, which you'd be sitting at the computer any way and my sleeping area is full height. Plus, my living and sleeping areas are opposite of each other to allow for that "space". I don't want kids and that'll be a requirement for when I find a husband.
I like the 5th wheel style too because of the high ceilings in the bedroom. Plus it's not in a loft. I cant imagine how many people who would hate to climb down a loft to go to the bathroom at 2 AM.
Do you have any interior pics of yours to post yet?
Developer · Denver, CO · Member since 2019 · 273 posts · 106 votes
7y
@Mike Reynolds
I've got a few, but the app and mobile version of BP isn't very picture friendly. I'll post some when I get home. I have a meeting with a county commissioner this afternoon so it'll be a minute before I can.