First buy - are we getting someone else's cosmetic flip

First buy - are we getting someone else's cosmetic flip

Valier, MT · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 0 votes

We're closing on a 6 Plex in a couple weeks and are having doubts. The property is in a great area (Class C) but with a need for more housing. Renting is never an issue. His leases are month to month and he pays all utilities. Cash on cash ROI is 19%. Cap rate 10%. He fixed the exterior - new windows, siding, and roof. However, we got caught up in the numbers and are now second guessing our decision. The 3 buildings were built in the early 1920's. All of them still have lathe and plaster interior walls which means the wiring is all old. The electrical services need to be updated (3 in total due to the 3 separate buildings). Heating units were not recently updated but we're not sure how old they are as we have not had an inspection yet. The plumbing is questionable as well. The lots have large cottonwood trees, which means potential tree root issues and he had one line already snaked because of that.

We have $100,000 to invest which is the down payment for this property. Do we take a chance because of its potential return and future development of newer rentals (the lots are large enough to tear down one house and put a 6-8 Plex in its place) or is the cost of updating too much of a risk. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! We are excited to begin this journey and want to make sure we're not making a huge mistake.

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Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Holly Stoltz:

We're not planning to upgrade anything unless we have to.  Just concerned about the possible expense down the road. Changing out the electrical boxes and/or plumbing can get very costly.  

It sure can & that 19% ROI fades very fast.

Back in 2015 we low balled & picked up a 6-plex with 3 units that had sat vacant for 2 years. It required most of what you mentioned & I plugged away upgrading each unit as we went. Then the bldg inspector hit us with 14 permits never signed off. None of which were uncovered when we did our DD & went to the town BUT he had recently dug through 40 years of archives. Most were grandfathered in BUT the major issue was the need for all electrical/plumbing being up to date, code compliant & then having it inspected with written reports to verify it. Then there was the need for new egress windows on the second & third floors.

Then the Bldg. Insp. hit us with the requirement for a complete fire sprinkler system & that began 18 months of weekly pressure. We also had to have a commercial architect on retainer to finalize all the code compliance documentation complete with Fire Chief approval. BUT we prevailed & they allowed me to do all the work myself. After a couple of months of initial downtime it's been fully rented (even during the rehabs) & hasn't yet had a vacancy & it's now a CASH COW.

KARMA......this same Bldg. inspector then had a fire in the basement of his home because he wired in several old discarded fluorescent lighting fixtures, (complete with outdated ballasts), that he picked up at a garage sale. 

Good luck !!!

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  • Real Estate Agent · Wauconda, IL · Member since 2016 · 208 posts · 99 votes
    6y

    Holly,

    Welcome to BP! Are you sure you NEED to update the electrical and plumbing? Sometimes when you're dealing with older buildings like this, it makes more sense to keep it the way it is. Once you start opening up walls, things can get complicated.

    I'm a little concerned that you say you are a couple weeks from closing but haven't had an inspection yet. in my experience, an inspection is one of the first things done after you have an accepted contract. 

    If you do get an inspection done, you might consider having a video inspection done of the sewer lines to see what kind of condition they are in. If he already had one snaked and you are concerned about tree roots, that could definitely get expensive if it's starting to go away.

    Don't invest all your cash as a down payment. Keep a healthy amount for maintenance, cap ex, and repairs to cover yourself. 

    I wouldn't count on future development as a key factor, only a bonus if everything else works out.

  • Valier, MT · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    Thanks for your suggestions.  We're not planning to upgrade anything unless we have to.  Just concerned about the possible expense down the road. Changing out the electrical boxes and/or plumbing can get very costly.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Holly Stoltz:

    We're not planning to upgrade anything unless we have to.  Just concerned about the possible expense down the road. Changing out the electrical boxes and/or plumbing can get very costly.  

    It sure can & that 19% ROI fades very fast.

    Back in 2015 we low balled & picked up a 6-plex with 3 units that had sat vacant for 2 years. It required most of what you mentioned & I plugged away upgrading each unit as we went. Then the bldg inspector hit us with 14 permits never signed off. None of which were uncovered when we did our DD & went to the town BUT he had recently dug through 40 years of archives. Most were grandfathered in BUT the major issue was the need for all electrical/plumbing being up to date, code compliant & then having it inspected with written reports to verify it. Then there was the need for new egress windows on the second & third floors.

    Then the Bldg. Insp. hit us with the requirement for a complete fire sprinkler system & that began 18 months of weekly pressure. We also had to have a commercial architect on retainer to finalize all the code compliance documentation complete with Fire Chief approval. BUT we prevailed & they allowed me to do all the work myself. After a couple of months of initial downtime it's been fully rented (even during the rehabs) & hasn't yet had a vacancy & it's now a CASH COW.

    KARMA......this same Bldg. inspector then had a fire in the basement of his home because he wired in several old discarded fluorescent lighting fixtures, (complete with outdated ballasts), that he picked up at a garage sale. 

    Good luck !!!

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    There is no need to rip off the lathe and plaster and in general people like it as it is very sound proof. For wiring changes the electrical box is usually what i do. If for some reason i am taking a wall down i will rewire that area. 

    Remember that these homes were built with old growth timber that is non existant any more and so any demo you do will be replaced with lesser quality material. 

    I am a big advocate for keeping as much original structure as possible. People love the look and feel and you are utilizing materials that can never be replaced. 

    Get an inspection this will help you understand what the issues might be. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Northeast PA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Did you speak with any of the tenants?  Do they have any complaints about electric or plumbing?

  • Valier, MT · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    @Marc Winter

    The tenants all seem content. They were all present when we toured.

  • Valier, MT · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    @Pat L.

    Yikes! You just opened up more concern for us! Building inspectors only inspect when you start renovating correct? Because I can tell you right now they'd make us update all the electrical panels.

    But hopefully our inspections will give us some idea as to what we will have to replace when we start renovating. Thanks!

  • Valier, MT · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    @Mary Mitchell

    Good advice! We have a contractor friend who hates lathe and plaster and feels there's too much old and outdated issues behind them! But we definitely don't plan on removing them unless we absolutely have to!

  • Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Holly Stoltz:

    @Pat L.

    Yikes! You just opened up more concern for us! Building inspectors only inspect when you start renovating correct? Because I can tell you right now they'd make us update all the electrical panels.

    But hopefully our inspections will give us some idea as to what we will have to replace when we start renovating. Thanks!

    Get to know them. I reluctantly sat down with ours in weekly meetings going over the math & design implications of all we did to make the building code compliant. Then had to repeat myself explaining what we were doing again the following week just like those old engineering meetings I hated & dreaded when I had a JOB. It was painful but you need to suck it up & once completed you should have a very valuable piece of property. 

    Our 6-plex is now fondly called the 'frankenstein house'. Sitting on a semi rural 4.5 acres, its very safe, quiet & it has a unique appeal to renters. In fact one young tenant couple got married in the back field.

  • Specialist · Tampa, FL · Member since 2012 · 933 posts · 492 votes
    6y

    @Holly Stoltz due to the age of the property a inspection is needed. It would be smart to have money for capex repairs up front so you're not using cash flow to take care of repairs. Think about if there was a big repair that needed attention immediately it may not leave you with enough cash flow to cover the debt. Have the inspection done and determine if the deal still has enough merit

  • Valier, MT · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    So is it best to get an inspector or have a plumber, electrician, and heating company inspect everything?   Our realtor suggested the latter because of expense.  Any thoughts?

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