Old timer investors. Are you going to be one?

Old timer investors. Are you going to be one?

Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes

The two investors I knew growing up kept at it their entire lives. Here is an article about a local Portland guy that is a legend in RE. Do you plan on investing forever?

Joe Weston unplugged
Published: Monday, November 19, 2007, 8:21 PM Updated: Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 9:35 AM
By Ryan Frank, The Oregonian

I had lunch Monday with Portland's 69-year-old godfather of real estate, Joe Weston. Weston has been at it for decades. He owns 2,500 apartments and industrial and commercial property across Northwest Oregon. He also remains the controlling interest behind the Hoyt Street Properties. I love this job because the real estate industry is full of personalities. Joe Weston is one of the Old School guys. He's worked in the same aging office building on NE Broadway for 40 years. The building happens to be a short drive from where he grew up at 31st and Flanders. At lunch, Weston wore his trademark red, white and blue tie with bald eagles.
Weston is traveling more these days but he remains busy as always. A quick run down what's on his to do list:
- Hoyt Street still has two blocks left in its current Pearl District phase and a whole other phase to follow. They're working to get more height bonuses from the city. He says sales are "extremely slow" at the Encore, his current project under construction.
- Weston is now doing some projects on his own. Benson Towers was the first. The Cosmopolitan in the Lloyd District will be next. He has OK'd the Cosmopolitan through construction documents. He plans to shelve the plans, then restart the project when the market returns. Weston pushed the Cosmopolitan ahead of another condo, the Manhattan. The Manhattan had been planned downtown just west of I-405. "Why did I reverse? It has smaller units and when the market comes opens up it will at a lower price point," Weston said. He plans to serve Lloyd District workers and people who live elsewhere but have a second home in the city.
- How long until the condo market returns? Weston says it will be "at least two years."
- Weston has a small place in NE and another place near Oregon City. "I don't go out there too often. Gas is too damn expensive."
- Over the last five years, Weston has purchased a bunch of land near 12th Avenue and Sandy Blvd. His holdings are now equal to 20 city blocks or about 800,000 square feet. "What am I going to do with it? Damned if I know." Weston likes the property because its platted for superblocks -- 460 feet long instead of the standard 200 feet -- that make it easier for development.
- He's also bought hundreds of acres near the Scappoose airport. He's in talks with the city of Portland for a new a police/fire training center, Mayor Tom Potter's big project.
- Weston moved across the river to buy about 73 acres at 192nd Ave. and Highway 14 near Camas. He said: "Vancouver is no longer a bedroom community of Portland, Oregon. It is a city unto itself."
- Weston says Central Oregon's market is dead, dead, dead. He sold much of his land and owns only two big lots in the Broken Top Highlands.
- In California, he owns about 78 acres in Palm Springs that he's developing for housing lots. "The nicest lots in Palm Springs."
Clearly, Joe Weston is not retiring any time soon.

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Will BarnardPro Member
Moderator
Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
13y

Hello, my name is Will and I am a realestateoholic and will happily be for life.

Also attend AA meetings - Acquisitions Anonymous

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Lexington, KY · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    I agree with you 100% Jeff S.. I was not referring about the outside perceptions of real estate investing and whether it is in or not, but whether or not an individual still has the determination and drive and still gets fulfillment from investing. I have seen what happens when people continue to do things they no longer enjoy, and when they press on despite the fact they are no longer getting internal benefits from it...it usually does not end well.

    I think it is admirable to admit when it is time to hang up and move on. For some people this will be 10 years and for some it will be 50 years or till death...hopefully for me it will be the latter (I honestly believe it will be). What I do not want to do is become some one who dreads dealing with other people, treats contractors, tenants and others like dirty and just chases the dollar. If that were to happen to me at any point, I hope for my sake and the sake of others I would either retire or find something that made me happier.

  • Lender · Denver, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 597 votes
    13y

    Jeff S. I really enjoyed reading this post, thank you for sharing.

    The comments are great, don't get me wrong I love real estate just as much as the next person. Retiring from real estate and having the freedom not to work are different in my eyes. Life is too short to work hard forever. Depending on your market it is fairly simple to put together $10-$15k in passive income before your golden years.

    Good Luck to everyone.

  • Lender · Denver, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 597 votes
    13y

    "Depending on your market it is fairly simple to put together $10-$15k in passive income before your golden years."

    **$10-$15k per month**

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Travis Sperr:
    "Depending on your market it is fairly simple to put together $10-$15k in passive income before your golden years."

    **$10-$15k per month**

    I agree that this is doable, but I would guess that less than one in thirty retirees is doing it.

  • Investor · Milford, CT · Member since 2012 · 592 posts · 285 votes
    13y

    The only reason I am continuing the family tradition of landlording is so I can retire. I plan on doing this till the day I die.

    Although I doubt I will be an old timer. The old days of landlording are gone past. Today's landlord has to be very proficient in tenant rights and laws. The Future landlord will need to continually reinvent themselves in order to continue cashflowing $$$.

  • Bismarck, ND · Member since 2011 · 142 posts · 16 votes
    13y

    I can't see myself ever completely retiring. I saw what happened to my grandfather who retired, didn't really have any hobbies, and lost his purpose in life. Its really a sad situation.

    Im just trying to get to the point where I can choose to work only as much as I want. I strongly desire a flexible schedule that keeps me engaged yet doesn't inhibit me when I want to do something. Something like a part time instructor at a college, oversee the real estate holdings, travel extensively, and never miss a family function.

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Yes I am an old time investor. As one of the old guys on your pockets I'm able to look back and see a lot of decisions I made that I am very happy with and others not so much. I'm sure it doesn't matter whether you're young or old, everyone goes through those same thoughts.

    I certainly agree that real estate is addictive and and suffering from being OCD, I have to be careful with what I do! When I was very young and very overweight, I was told by a doctor I would be the richest man in the graveyard. Having four small children at the time caused me to reflect on what he had said. I chose to quit doing real estate full-time and raise kids instead and move to a ranch setting in Oregon. I did cut back on real estate and decided to become self-sufficient instead. Again, the OCD kicked in. I planted a 50 tree fruit orchard, purchased 10 steers, and put in a a stream fed pond of nearly 2 acres with island and Dock.

    I lost interest and started doing real estate once again! Purchasing, managing, rehabbing, and constructing new homes. Once again, I became addicted! When my last of six kids left home, three days later my wife and I were full-time RVers and I took up golf. Here we go again, I became addicted to golf! This continued for six years, and I was asked to start speaking at real estate seminars-big mistake! It got the juices flowing once again and my OCD kicked in. I accepted a challenge that one of the seminars to buy a house a day for 30 days. I failed. I closed on 26 homes in 35 days, mostly in Texas. This real estate addiction continued for approximately 4 more years as I purchased more apartments, homes, and began building homes again.

    Owning a small home in Arizona and having not visited their in five years, early in 2012 wife and I decided to spend a couple of months. This small home is in a community which offers golf (our home is on the 18th green), softball, pickle Ball, and about 50 other sports. I'm now quite addicted on golf, softball, and pickle Ball. We also own a home in southern Utah which is where I currently am addicted to those three sports and play at least two of the three every day. It keeps me healthy and skinny after weighing well over 350 pounds.

    I do continue to oversee the construction of a couple of homes here in Utah and in my subdivision in South Texas. This requires almost none of my time, and that is the way I like it.

    Let me chat about passive income since that has been covered in this same thread. This is a wonderful way to live and I love the first part of each month. Having just under 1000 rentals (of which the majority are self storage units) and management overseeing all of them, I am extremely blessed. I think I just build homes to keep the juices flowing. I would certainly urge everyone in real estate to work towards the passive income scenario. Once you reach that location, you may then decide whether you want to invest until the day you die or whether you would rather do something else with your time. It is very doable.

    I'll be turning 65 in June and I don't choose to do cold or hot weather locations anymore. I expect to continue playing these three sports until the day I die and keep my help so I might enjoy whatever those golden years turn out to be. I'll be closing on another small home on the coast in northern California, Redwood country, where I belong to a golf club as well as a softball team and a pickle Ball group. I will spend April through September in California, and October through December in Arizona.

    I also find time to travel and spoil my wife. We'll be leaving February 5 for a combination land/cruise in Dubai. This will be our 43rd cruise and we'll visit country 106, 107, and 108 on this trip.

    One other comment. Jon K mentioned passive income and that may be one in 30 retirees are in that position. I have no idea what the actual percentage is but my Arizona home is in an over 55 community with just under 1900 spaces. Many of these folks are working outside of the park and others do jobs inside the park to help subsidize their lifestyle. They might serve as marshals on the golf course, or work in the front office, or at the security gate, or many other options that are available to them. I have no reason to doubt the one in 30 number but if I had to guess, that might be low.

    Last comment. I also disagree with the numbers and the percentages that are thrown out as being required to live and enjoyable life at retirement age. I've posted threads and blogs about how inexpensive it is to live in some of these same type parks as we live in Arizona. If you are able to obtain the 10 to 15,000 per month passive income that will be fantastic. However, I know that you can currently do that for a number significantly less and see it being done on a regular basis by people that are truly enjoying their lives. So, don't lose hope, keep your eye on the ball, work towards a goal, and even if you fall short you will probably still be in a super location. Rich

  • Real Estate Professional · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2010 · 609 posts · 163 votes
    13y

    Stumbled across this thread because of the new key work alert feature which I love. I am 50 and my wife thinks I will never retire and she is probably right. My efforts as we speak are to build a business my 14 year old son son can work after college and a couple of years of service with our church. If he wants to continue the business the older step kids already entrenched in their careers can benefit as well.

  • Real Estate Investor · Hartford, CT · Member since 2011 · 222 posts · 17 votes
    13y

    Will Barnard@Rich Weese...Incredible post. Literally guys, all of the posts were amazing. Believe me, it keeps the fire lite for young investors like me when you guys share your thoughts...

    BP Nation for life!

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Thanks Geoffrey. I don't post much anymore, but it is still nice to be part of BP and appreciated. Rich

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    13y

    Thanks Geoffrey. Staying active on this site has helped me (and hopefully others) tremendously and as a long time member, I can say that BP adds to my RE addiction.

  • Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    Joe Bertolino it is so interesting that at 99 she is still a good business head. Would like to meet her. She would be a depression person so knows that value of a buck. Bet she has great stories.

    James Vermillion they say people who love their work are blessed. They are also rare. Like you say, being honest with yourself is number one. Growing can require change and like you say, sometimes it is time to move on.

    Travis Sperr retiring is the ultimate goal of most people IMO. At least that is what Jim Cramer says. Funny thing is though he could easily retire but he keeps working helping others retire. Being able to is in my mind the important thing. Knocking down 10-15k a month in retirement is certainly a home-run. Personally, just happy to have a little more coming in than is going out w/o working. Since retiring, my time has become very important to me. Money a little less so.

    George Paiva it seems like the idea of landlording and being retired is almost consensus. Wonder how many self managed units starts stretching what we call retirement.

    Zachary Dosch know what you mean about people retiring and not having purpose. Where I worked many retirees get lazy, have no hobbies and die soon. The active ones last longest and do best IMO.

    Rich Weese nobody has more fun being OCD than you do. Am sure many wish they had half the energy you do. You are the example of RE success many aspire to. All that AND you know how to have fun. That pretty much sums up what old timer investors hope for.

    Geoffrey Murphy looking long-term is best IMO. Just keep looking forward and the present just keeps getting better. Good luck.

  • Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2013 · 76 posts · 35 votes
    13y

    I associate with real estate addicts often. Those that are new to the game need the most attention. Those that are successful make good mentors. We don't celebrate, nor study, those that have failed.

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Paul- Good point with one caveat. I have learned from a few that were successful---and then I actually learned as much or more seeing what they did just before they went under.... Rich

    Jeff S- I have absolutely zero complaints. Playing life as I choose.

  • Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    Paul Falbo agree with Rich W that understanding what makes people fail is as important as what makes them successful. What do you see Rich Weese that makes people fail? How does one skirt that potential pitfall when leveraging through good times and bad?

  • Accountant · Denver, CO · Member since 2012 · 154 posts · 61 votes
    13y

    @Rich Weese

    I got your book in the mail today man, and I got through about 50 pages, it's a great read. Thanks for the note inside it made my day! All this is definitely good to hear for those of us that are a bit younger, it helps us put things in perspective and put more guided plans in place.

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Jeff S-I will detail a couple specific examples I'm aware of, but it always seems like there are several threads that run through all of these failures and I've seen it over and over again.
    1. This will never happen to me.
    2. I'm protected fully, even if things go bad.

    Here are a couple specific examples and I'm on my Dragon speak so they may be longer than normal!

    The first one occurred back in the 80s during a tremendous downturn in the economy. I was living near Eugene Oregon and was contacted by a great guy. This gentleman lived outside of Eugene in a 14,000 ft.² home that looked like a Swiss chalet on the top edge of a hill surrounded by pine trees and looking down on a 3000 ft.² guest house. The home included indoor pool and racquetball court and had hundreds of acres of pine trees around it. It also had a mother-in-law quarters in the lower level.

    This gentleman contacted me one day and asked if I would meet with him to hear a business proposal. In addition to this home, and all the pine tree acreage, he also owned I five property at both the Redding California and red Bluff California off ramps. It was zoned commercial and he had loans on both these properties. He had taken out a second mortgage on his chalet to buy additional time. Now, all of these loans were in default. His proposal to me was, to give me the chalet valued at well over $1 million. If I remember correctly, the two loans were around $400,000 in total. In exchange for the home, I would escrow sufficient money to take care of the commercial payments on the to California properties for 18 months. He would keep ownership of those parcels as well as the acreage with timber and he would move into the guest cottage. I seriously considered the proposal and even went through his house and books several times with my wife. She was not very excited about living in such an ostentatious home and the market was not great to be selling $1 million plus homes at the time.

    After giving it significant thought and trying to work out other options with this gentleman, we decided to pass on the proposal. In conversations with him, the two factors I mentioned above did come up. He was sure it would never happen to him and he figured he could always sell one of the smaller five-acre parcels of pine to make mortgage payments for a few months. When both of those options fell through, he was left with no other method to make money other than sell properties in a bad economy. It had turned on him quickly. Some time later, he did lose the big home and move into the guest cottage below. I lost contact with him and don't know what happened to the California property or the gorgeous pine mountain behind the home in Eugene Oregon. If anyone lives in that area, I'm sure you can go and see that home from the Valley. It is gorgeous.

    I bumped this post before I was done. Now, there will be 2 parts!! Sorry. Rich

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Part two – this new techie stuff really drives me crazy as most of you are aware.

    Now let's move on to the 2000's. I finished raising my six kids in St. George Utah between 1988 and 2002. During that time, I met a lot of great people, did a lot of real estate, and built 44 spec homes ranging from 1600 ft.² to 6000 ft.². I want to details to of the people, the first one a builder and the second one a realtor.

    1. When I moved to St. George in 1988 I moved into a large home that I had just purchased from an investor with a tenant as the occupant. The tenant was a builder and had just built a beautiful new home. My family was literally moving in through the garage as this family was moving out through the front door! We became good friends due to a variety of reasons that I won't go into in detail. He began building homes and was very successful even building multimillion dollar homes for the annual St. George Parade of homes on a yearly basis. He continued to build bigger and bigger homes and even eventually started buying land which he would develop into lots and then sell finished homes. He had forgotten both the items that get people in trouble as I mentioned above. The next economic downturn in the 2000s caught him by surprise. Same story. Unable to make the land payments, sell finished product, and pay subcontractors. My wife and I left St. George to become full-time RV years in 2002. When we returned in 2011, this gentleman had lost everything and had actually moved to central or south America.

    I will not use names, because there is probably too much information being given, that local people who Peru's bigger pockets would probably be able to connect the dots already.

    My second example was a very good friend of mine here in St. George. I met him when he was fairly young and managing a

    convenience store and delicatessen. I could tell he was a great salesman and had all the PR talents necessary to be successful in anything he sold. After meeting with him and his wife on multiple occasions and explaining real estate and what I was doing, he made the leap. He was tremendous and his business grew exponentially. He was one of the top brokers in the area and possibly even the top broker several years while I was gone. He continued to purchase real estate, leverage highly, and start developing large parcels assuming the real estate spigot would run forever. When I returned in 2011, I found that my friend had moved out of the area, lost everything, and was now buying and selling used cars. Despite my concerns and warnings to him about becoming overextended, he never felt that was what he was doing and would always be able to make a sale or two to pay the bills. Once again, this didn't prove true.

    I know on bigger pockets that sometimes I may post doom and gloom. The reason for that, is that I am experienced enough to have seen that on multiple occasions with many people. These are just three examples of probably 100 I could list in a combination of all the states where I've lived. Currently, I'm hearing the same two things again. This can never happen to me, and I'm prepared for the worst. If you have already seen the worst and experienced the worst in the last 40 years, and have come out unhurt on the other side, then you have a right to feel that way. I assure you, that the people I have mentioned certainly felt it would never happen to them.

    My mottos for this year are sort of like the military.
    1. Tread lightly.
    2. Preserve and protect the assets I have.

    Baltazar-thank you for the nice comments about my book. I do try to personalize a message to each purchaser that buys a hard copy. Hopefully you will update me when you have completed the entire book.

    Rich

  • Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    Thanks for the great replies Rich Weese. With the idea that it "can't happen to me" isn't there a way to make sure? Is there a "correct" amount of leverage that will help prevent failure? I can tell that you and Joe Westin have had the petal to the metal for a good portion of your lives to accumulate like you have. There must be a rule you follow or some sense when to hit it and when to back-off. In other words you drive a hundred miles an hour but know when to slow for the corners and bad weather, right?

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Jeff S – I'll try to give you a couple thoughts in reply to your questions that you asked. You might not find as many numbers and percentages in my answer as you might have thought you would.

    I think the answers to all the questions you formulated would differ least on where on the investing latter you were currently at. If you are on the first rung of investing, and have very little in reserves, your chance of it happening to you in a bad economy are very high. I also don't think there is a specific amount of leverage that would help present failure. In the most recent recession/depression the answer would've been 50% in some states. If you were leveraged higher than that, all your equity was gone. Prior to the most recent downturn, I would imagine an investor could have survived with 40% equity or possibly even 30%. If you had asked the same question prior to the most recent 50% downturn I would've answered differently than now. Are we all 100% confident that a larger than 50% downturn will never occur in the future? If so, then that is your number. I prefer to look at it in a different way.

    First, here is my answer to your last question and it is part of a list of 10 items that I've formulated to answer your questions in general terms.
    1. When everyone is getting on the bandwagon of real estate, I slow down or get off. When everyone is abandoning the bandwagon of real estate, I start taking a strong interest once again.

    2. When I was just a kid, I was very active in Boy Scouts. I've always believed in the motto of Be Prepared. This continues to serve me well.

    3. Plan for the worst and work for the best possible outcome.

    4. Never put all your investment eggs in one basket.

    5. Don't try to do it yourself when it comes to legal and accounting knowledge. These two items can take you down or completely under in my opinion.

    6. Learn all that you can about taxes, stay current, and use the tax code to benefit you in the highest way possible as dictated by Judge Learned Hand.

    7. Make sure to use all legal entities in the best way possible and do extensive Estate preparation. This includes LLC's, corporations, and trusts. When it comes to trusts, I believe a successful investor should have revocable trusts, IRREVOCABLE trusts, and at least a GST. There are other trusts that might also be good matches for certain investors.

    8. Diversify in real estate. By this I mean leveraged and non-leveraged as well as using as many possible characteristics available in real estate. Residential of all types, commercial in certain situations, land or lots, etc. When an investor has surplus assets, it is time to diversify even more with becoming a lender.

    9. Never allow yourself to be involved with a partner whose financial standing or situation could take you down or under.

    10. I saved this one for something not necessarily oriented towards real estate but in my opinion definitely oriented towards being prepared. I try to take 20% and donate part in contributions, conserve cash, buy food and other storage necessities, and also precious metals bullion.

    I'm well aware that this list would be different if I was compiling it as a 20-year-old, or 30-year-old, or 40-year-old, or 50 year old. I'm looking at all of this now in my rearview mirror through many years of experience and involvement in real estate. To your questions, these would be my answers.

    It would be interesting to see you other input from other investors in other age groups or of different beliefs as well as from legal counsel and accountants. I am definitely not either of the latter to but have had significant involvement with both!.

    Jeff S – unfortunately this might have created more questions than it answered. I know what has always been comfortable to me in reserves, security and preparations. As long as it works for me, I'll continue with it. Rich

  • Accountant, Enrolled Agent · Grayslake, IL · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    Just figured I'd put the quote Rich Weese was referring to:

    "Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as
    possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the
    treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.
    Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister
    in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone
    does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any
    public duty to pay more than the law demands."

    -Judge Learned Hand

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Thanks Steven H!

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