Roofing Quote Expert Advice

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Roofing Quote Expert Advice

Brenda Whittaker
Investor · Cottonwood, AZ · Member since 2015 · 287 posts · 57 votes

Any experts on roofing who can tell me if this looks like a good quote?  I;m sure it does but are those good "coil fasteners", and does a city require a permit for this, I dont think so, and my biggest question here is, is there a potential problem with overlay versus total replacement?  House was built 1952, roof is about 20 years old, my intent is to sell either now or in 2 years. Currently a rental, I want to get it FHA ready.  Any FHA requirements on overlays vs total replacement?  Thank you for any information you might be able to share.  I researched FHA roof requirements, there is no mention of overlay vs replacement.  

Overlay Estimate

We will install Malarkey Duraseal 3-tab shingles on slopes and the ridge. We will use 1 ¼” coil nail fasteners and apply roof caulking around pipe jacks and furnace pipes. install a synthetic permeable underlayment and obtain a city permit as required. We will do a thorough cleaning and haul off any of the discarded material. We will protect windows and landscaping with either tarps or OSB during the installation.

Total overlay cost is $5,297.00

We will install Malarkey Duraseal 3-tab class 4 Impact Resistant shingles (potential insurance discount) on the slopes and ridge, galvanized pipe jacks, 1 exhaust cap, 1 electrical boot and 1 wind turbine is included in this bid. We will use a synthetic permeable underlayment on the slopes. Valleys will be protected with an ice and water shield underlayment. Ice and water shield will be applied to any areas of concern where a leak could potentially be created. This extra preventative cost is not passed onto you, we want ensure we install a solid roof. We will remove the discarded shingles and other material. We will protect windows and landscaping with either tarps or OSB during tear-off and installation. Full roof replacement comes with a 25 year manufacturer and a 5 year labor warranty.

Total replacement cost is $6,860.00

We try to leave your house and yard cleaner then when we started. Magnets are rolled through the yard, flowerbeds & driveway by the crew to pick up any roofing nails. If the job takes two days, we clean up most the first day. The second day will be the final clean up. We typically have one crew member cleaning up throughout the day to minimize the amount to clean at the end of the day.

- We are a certified Malarkey shingle installer

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Jay M.
Contractor · Fairhaven, MA · Member since 2018 · 167 posts · 159 votes
6y

Option #1 is a hack job / band-aid.........  Going over an existing roof is a hack job....period, no discussion. Is it possible to get a quality job going over shingles?  It's possible.........It's also possible for me to walk across a 5 lane freeway without looking and not get hit.  Odds are about the same....

  It also includes caulking around the pipe jacks not replacing (hack job x3)....   The pipe jack boots usually fail before the roof so I'm sure they've already failed if the roof has.  Since option 2 lists new ridge vent and option #1 does not it leads me to believe they'll go over ridge and not vent it?  If you have soffit venting and only ridge vent at present not gable vents then you need to vent ridge.

Coil nails just mean they're using a roofing gun.  The nails for the guns come in coils.

Both options list 3-tab shingles.  Check you neighborhood for like houses.  If they're all using the "architectural type" shingles rather than 3-tabs your house may stand out when going to sell as an obvious "cheaper" option that jumps out at you as soon as the buyer pulls up.  I don't know about the area in AZ you're in but within a 100 miles of where I live in the northeast I couldn't even guess which decade was the one I last saw a new roof being replaced or new construction using 3-tabs...

If anyone doesn't agree with my personal opinion that going over a roof is a hack job I'll outline my argument if you would like....  I figured most would agree and  I could save some typing..

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  • Erik B.
    Rental Property Investor · Amityville, NY · Member since 2018 · 351 posts · 441 votes
    6y

    @Brenda Whittaker

    i would get 2 more quotes. Look for a company that specializes in roofing. (Roofing will be in there name) ask around in your area for a recommendation!

    1Reply
  • Brenda Whittaker
    OP
    Investor · Cottonwood, AZ · Member since 2015 · 287 posts · 57 votes
    6y

    @Erik B.  I actually did do that, I have 2 other quotes from roofing companies that are closer to $8000.  Both were recommended by my gutter installer.  Tough choices here.  Of course if I can have a handy guy do an overlay for $5000 vs a roofer for $8000 I have to look into the options, but usually I get what I pay for.  Though I am planning to sell either now or in 2 years, I possess a level of integrity that wants me to do the best quality job for a new homeowner, and not just get out of it as cheap as possible just to get out from under it.  Many contractors have that attitude, which I despise, I hate when they say, "it doesnt matter, you're selling anyway"... no, just no.  So everyone, which few last questions should I ask all 4 of my bidders?  Quotes range from $8000 (WOW prices have risen!) to that overlay quote of just over $5000 above.  What last questions need to be addressed to all of them before deciding on who should get the job?  

    0Reply
  • Brenda Whittaker
    OP
    Investor · Cottonwood, AZ · Member since 2015 · 287 posts · 57 votes
    6y

    Again, its not leaking. Its just old looking (granuals are thin), the comment above about doing it before it becomes a problem is my situation, I just want it done before it starts leaking and I want to get FHA compliant, and have always wanted to fix the issue of the old shingles not extending far enough out to keep water off the fascia. Thanks everyone!

    0Reply
  • Mike ReynoldsPro Member
    construction · Nacogdoches, TX · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brenda Whittaker:

    @Mike Reynolds 7 layers!! That sounds crazy, I am surprised any roofer would be willing to go over any more than one layer.  Most I talked to say you can only do one lay over and most (well I have only spoke to 3 or 4) seem reluctant to do overlays, and with overlays the workmanship guarantee is shorter.  It is north Texas near Sherman, close to the Oklahoma border.  Rains a LOT there, mild winters, major storms, but the old 3 tab is holding up, no leaks that I know of.  It's just old. Any reason to go with arch type instead of 3 tab besides looks?  Its a lower end home, functionality would be more important than appearance. 

    I would go with the arch because it has a longer warranty and doesn't really cost that much more in terms of the whole job. Some insurance companies give you a break because of it but some don't. 

    0Reply
  • Victor S.
    WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    i, too, am surprised they offered you a 3-tab as an option. i'm in a process of replacing my 3-tab with architectural myself and the roofer wouldn't even suggest using a 3-tab. you could opt for a metal roof, but the insurance would not cover replacement unless it leaks. it could be banged up to hell and visible from 100 yards away and still not deemed replacement worthy. metal rusts, too. 

    1Reply
  • Alyssa Dyer
    Rental Property Investor · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 694 votes
    6y

    I've seen around 200 investment deals this year and not a single second layer roof had an issue with insurance as long as the condition is good. I know you're asking for bigger picture beyond that, but I just wanted to offer that pov! 

    2Reply
  • Mike ReynoldsPro Member
    construction · Nacogdoches, TX · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Erik B.:

    No one is concerned with 1-1/4 nails on a overlay???????

    Theres already lots of info here so I'll keep it short.

    If the roof looks great now why replace? FHA will only say something if roof shows defects or needed repairs.

    If your selling in 2 years go with overlay BUT make sure you get new pipe boots and flashing around chimneys etc.

    The fact that they are offering 3 tab raises a red flag to me. (PLUS 3 tab in my area is now more money then architectual)

    They were very vague on where ice and water should be. I'dook into this and ask them for more clarity 

    Good catch on the 1 1/4" nails. That wont work at all. 

    1Reply
  • Mike ReynoldsPro Member
    construction · Nacogdoches, TX · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Victor S.:

    i, too, am surprised they offered you a 3-tab as an option. i'm in a process of replacing my 3-tab with architectural myself and the roofer wouldn't even suggest using a 3-tab. you could opt for a metal roof, but the insurance would not cover replacement unless it leaks. it could be banged up to hell and visible from 100 yards away and still not deemed replacement worthy. metal rusts, too. 

    There are still a lot of 3 tab here in Texas even though the architectural shingles are not that much more. I was driving by a 200k house that had new 3 tabs on them. 200k here is above average home. 

    1Reply
  • Monique O.
    Rental Property Investor · Visalia, CA · Member since 2019 · 44 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    @Brenda Whittaker what is the square footage of the roof?

    0Reply
  • Monique O.
    Rental Property Investor · Visalia, CA · Member since 2019 · 44 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    @Jay M. I agree!!

    Though I think the code (in CA) you can have up to 2 layers.

    1Reply
  • Brenda Whittaker
    OP
    Investor · Cottonwood, AZ · Member since 2015 · 287 posts · 57 votes
    6y

    Thanks everyone!  The roof is 1300 sf. approx.  After all Ive learned here I will ask all roofers who quoted about these details - strange none of them offered arch type, but all were reluctant to do an overlay.  Though Im selling now or soon, I still want a good solid job done.  I will ask about all these details and try to get a feel for who to hire hopefully today.  Must focus.  I'm leaning toward hiring an actual roofing company that was recommended by the gutter guy, and total replacement although I could save $2000 by doing an overlay.  So today is question day for all 4 I got quotes from.  I'll let you know what happens and thank you so much for all of your input, it is very much appreciated.  

    2Reply
  • Erik B.
    Rental Property Investor · Amityville, NY · Member since 2018 · 351 posts · 441 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brenda Whittaker:

    Thanks everyone!  The roof is 1300 sf. approx.  After all Ive learned here I will ask all roofers who quoted about these details - strange none of them offered arch type, but all were reluctant to do an overlay.  Though Im selling now or soon, I still want a good solid job done.  I will ask about all these details and try to get a feel for who to hire hopefully today.  Must focus.  I'm leaning toward hiring an actual roofing company that was recommended by the gutter guy, and total replacement although I could save $2000 by doing an overlay.  So today is question day for all 4 I got quotes from.  I'll let you know what happens and thank you so much for all of your input, it is very much appreciated.  

     Something to keep in mind.  1300sf is 13 squares. In the busy and expensive northeast I pay $300 per square for tear off and new Install labor and materials. That's a good deal. Regular consumers pay about 400 per square.

    So your roof in my area would be APPROX $3900-$5200. 

    Find another investor in your area and them for a recommendation.

    2Reply
  • Anthony Rosa
    Rental Property Investor · New York City · Member since 2019 · 703 posts · 538 votes
    6y

    Id say go for the new roof. Did you get a SF cost for replacing rotted lumber where needed?

    0Reply
  • Brenda Whittaker
    OP
    Investor · Cottonwood, AZ · Member since 2015 · 287 posts · 57 votes
    6y

    @Erik B.  Thanks, I am having a lot of trouble keeping all the info together.  I can't pick a roofer.  The prices are all around $7000 which seems very high as I did one 2 years ago for $5000.  They all talk too much about insurance, what will be covered, warranties, 30 year vs. 25 year, etc.  It confuses me terribly.  I can't seem to get apples to apples comparable information..  

    0Reply
  • Brenda Whittaker
    OP
    Investor · Cottonwood, AZ · Member since 2015 · 287 posts · 57 votes
    6y

    @Anthony Rosa  What is SF?  I will make sure I ask about replacing rotted lumber, thank you. 

    0Reply
  • Brenda Whittaker
    OP
    Investor · Cottonwood, AZ · Member since 2015 · 287 posts · 57 votes
    6y

    Finding another investor in the area?....  now I am paralyzed with total overwhelm. 

    0Reply
  • Erik B.
    Rental Property Investor · Amityville, NY · Member since 2018 · 351 posts · 441 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brenda Whittaker:

    Finding another investor in the area?....  now I am paralyzed with total overwhelm. 

      Use this forum to ask for a recommendation for a qualified roofing contractor from either a another investor or a realestate agent in your area

    0Reply
  • Brenda Whittaker
    OP
    Investor · Cottonwood, AZ · Member since 2015 · 287 posts · 57 votes
    6y

    Ok, I started a new topic asking for roofer recommendations in N. Texas. 

    0Reply
  • Victor S.
    WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Erik B.:
    Originally posted by @Brenda Whittaker:

    Thanks everyone!  The roof is 1300 sf. approx.  After all Ive learned here I will ask all roofers who quoted about these details - strange none of them offered arch type, but all were reluctant to do an overlay.  Though Im selling now or soon, I still want a good solid job done.  I will ask about all these details and try to get a feel for who to hire hopefully today.  Must focus.  I'm leaning toward hiring an actual roofing company that was recommended by the gutter guy, and total replacement although I could save $2000 by doing an overlay.  So today is question day for all 4 I got quotes from.  I'll let you know what happens and thank you so much for all of your input, it is very much appreciated.  

     Something to keep in mind.  1300sf is 13 squares. In the busy and expensive northeast I pay $300 per square for tear off and new Install labor and materials. That's a good deal. Regular consumers pay about 400 per square.

    So your roof in my area would be APPROX $3900-$5200. 

    Find another investor in your area and them for a recommendation.

    this. find a roofer that will walk you thru the whole process (including insurance, if you have a valid claim - hail/wind, storm damage, etc.). if you are using insurance, you don't want an adjuster showing up and denying your claim outright. 

    0Reply
  • Anthony Rosa
    Rental Property Investor · New York City · Member since 2019 · 703 posts · 538 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brenda Whittaker:

    @Anthony Rosa  What is SF?  I will make sure I ask about replacing rotted lumber, thank you. 

     Square Foot.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Contractor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2018 · 432 posts · 221 votes
    6y

    @Brenda Whittaker I didn’t have enough time to read all arguments for tear offs etc. but I will say I just did a roof over inspected by the local building department and it went fine. The existing roof did not leak and t was a smooth 3 tab. I roofed over it with architectural and replaced all boots. Added a ridge vent. I would definitely say go architectural on a roof over. They are way more gracious and look richer. Metal is the new cheap option in my opinion. It can look bad if installed sloppy. Most shingle installations aren’t as vulnerable to bad trim outs on the edges. You must only have one layer of shingles to do a proper roof over. It doesn’t really help to do underpayment on a roof over if the existing doesn’t leak. I’m not the biggest expert on roofs, but when time is tight, I think a non leaking shingle roof is better underpayment than on layer of felt. I should take a little heat for the unconventional stance. I’m listening..

    1Reply
  • Brenda Whittaker
    OP
    Investor · Cottonwood, AZ · Member since 2015 · 287 posts · 57 votes
    6y

    @Anthony Rosa For the life of me I tried and tried to figure out what SF meant and could not come up with an answer, I can't believe I didn't realize it was square foot.  My ignorance amazes me.  I don't know what my problem is, it's like I'm operating on a fraction of the brain power I should have.  The wood replacement on all my bids are mentioned as an hourly rate. 

    1Reply
  • Brenda Whittaker
    OP
    Investor · Cottonwood, AZ · Member since 2015 · 287 posts · 57 votes
    6y

    @Victor S. Thank you, I don't think I have a valid insurance claim, the roof is just old and worn but not necessarily storm damaged.  I have been asking for many details from bidders, and it still seems impossible to get apples to apples.  Especially from a distance.  It's a 2 day drive to get to the house and I can't seem to get there because of a house full of animals at home that need babysitting and a part time job I can't find subs for.  I'm doing it all by phone and email. Very tough situation.

    0Reply
  • Anthony Rosa
    Rental Property Investor · New York City · Member since 2019 · 703 posts · 538 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brenda Whittaker:

    @Anthony Rosa For the life of me I tried and tried to figure out what SF meant and could not come up with an answer, I can't believe I didn't realize it was square foot.  My ignorance amazes me.  I don't know what my problem is, it's like I'm operating on a fraction of the brain power I should have.  The wood replacement on all my bids are mentioned as an hourly rate. 

    Don't be hard on yourself, no reason to be, its all good!  "The wood replacement on all my bids are mentioned as an hourly rate" - Is there a cost for lumber material since the roofer is pricing labor rate?.. Its up to you, but I know contractors that require a SF price on lumber replacement (different items too) so there are no surprise costs when you get the bill. IE:  Suppose a contractor gives an hourly rate and bases the hourly rate on 2,3,4...man-hours, that cost could be double or triple of what it should be.  Billing based on hourly rate can allow the workers to work below a normal pace so they can accumulate more hours.  If a 4'X8' section of plywood needs to be removed & replaced the total cost is based on 32SF and there is no argument because the SF price to remove & replace is already set.  

    0Reply
  • Brenda Whittaker
    OP
    Investor · Cottonwood, AZ · Member since 2015 · 287 posts · 57 votes
    6y

    @Anthony Rosa  Wow that makes sense, I thank you, I will contact the one I am considering tomorrow tell them I need a sf quote for roof repair. Much appreciated advice. 

    1Reply
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