Rich Dad says a home is a liability………

Rich Dad says a home is a liability………

Arn CenedellaPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2008 · 786 posts · 1k+ votes

Many investors quote Rich Dad to support their contention that a HOME is not an investment.

Often this is done as an argument to invest capital in their commerical real estate deal instead of buying a home. Let me also say, I love buying rental real estate. I own everything from single family real estate to 200 unit plus apartment complexes. I am PRO rental real estate ownership. 

This argument is simplistic at best and in my opinion often false because it ignores the cost of shelter.

If one doesn’t own a home they have to pay rent somewhere else, right?

Before looking at numbers. let’s frame the question by posing the following two questions:

1. If paying a mortgage payment is a liability, then what’s paying a rent payment? An asset?

2. As an investor, we are told it’s a great thing to have our tenants pay the mortgage. I agree.

But if an investor doesn’t buy a house, he is a tenant and laying that investor’s mortgage down.

There’s a logical inconsistency here. If it is good for YOU to have a tenant pay down YOUR mortgage, why is it good for YOU to pay down someone else’s mortgage? That makes no sense, does it?

Let’s look at some numbers:

Let’s compare rent v ownership numbers.

First, let’s recognize paying $3,000 in ownership costs AFTER TAX is equivalent plus minus to $2,000 a month rent. Often the after tax cost of ownership is equivalent to rent. And if you get a 30 year fixed rate mortgage, it is almost certain the cost of rent will go up much faster than the cost of ownership.

What about the down payment required to buy a house?

Let’s assume 10% down - one can actually buy a residence for 3% down.

Let’s say one buys a $300,000 house with 10% down.

That’s $30,000 investment.

Let’s say value of house goes up 5% per year.

After 5 years, the $300,000 house will be worth $375,000.
Equity increases from $30K to $105K in 5 years.

That’s a 50% annual increase in value.

Is that not a good return?

Run the numbers anyway you want.

At 3% annual value increase, rate of return is 30% annual return.

Buy a house first, get great long term debt and then start building your rental empire.

Don’t believe every real estate mantra you here, they often are not correct.

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Bjorn AhlbladPro Member
Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
3y

Never really got that notion either, my wife and I held rentals in San Mateo for 30 years and made a ton when we sold them. We also had a primary in Los Gatos for over 30 years and made a lot more money when we sold that. To me Real Estate that makes money is an asset whether you live in it or not. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
    Quote from @Steve Harlow:

    My wife and I differ on this.  I prefer to buy a house to live in that is distressed and fix it up or build my own house.  Both ways I have built in equity. My wife is the opposite.

    I see a house as an investment and treat it as such. The home I bought 27 years ago is now worth 12X's so its been a pretty good investment. If I rented it I would be paying 5K per month.

    I tell people to buy if the numbers work and we are in the right part of the cycle.  Its not going to be the best investment you make but not the worst either. 


     Anything that's appreciating to upside is investments LOL

    THe Rich Dad doesnt understand this.

    You don't understand RichDad.  You have to look at the entire picture, not just focused on "the house appreciates".  So what, if the cost to hold that house is greater over the years than the appreciation.
  • Brian M. AdamsPro Member
    Member since 2018 · 20 posts · 6 votes
    3y
    Quote from @David M.:

    @Brian M. Adams

    so, I gotta ask about the endof your post:  "...but have also incurred a massive tax bill."

    If the value of the property is less than the purchase price in your example and this whole thread is about primary residences, how can you have any sort of tax bill?  One should be tax-loss harvesting...  If anything, being financially destitute to qualify for the short sale is your real problem..  Could you elaborate?


    If you short sell, the IRS considers the difference in what you owe and what was paid to the lender as income to you. In other words, what ever amount that was forgiven is reported to the IRS and is income.

    That means that if you owe $250K on a property, but end up doing a short sale for $150K, then you now have an additional $100K of taxable income.

    The same applies to charge offs on credit cards and credit lines. It's part of the reason why the big push for student loan forgiveness is so funny to me.

  • Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    @Arn Cenedella, you have been coming with some great, albeit, controversial topics lately.

    What I find interesting is: paying rent, paying a mortgage, collecting rent, paying utilities, etc are all CASH FLOW.  Some are negative and some are positive.  

    Is owning your primary, generally, a good investment?  Yes.  Can it be a liability?  Sure, in a general sense.  Technically, I view all property as an asset.  Some are going to be negative assets and some positive.  I see and read about the properties many people on these forums want to buy, and they are taking 3.5% down loans trying to make it work.  Whether it is a primary, a house hack, a rental, etc.  And I think: THAT IS GOING TO COST YOU SO MUCH.

    Owning your own home helps your credit score (better access to cheaper money). It is a forced savings account. It hopefully appreciates. Your "rent" is generally fixed (at least the PI piece). It is a very cheap credit card (HELOC).

    It also costs a lot of money, directly and indirectly.  It can keep you from moving to a higher paying job in a different market.  It can depreciate.  It requires regular work.

  • Arn CenedellaPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2008 · 786 posts · 1k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Evan Polaski:

    @Arn Cenedella, you have been coming with some great, albeit, controversial topics lately.

    What I find interesting is: paying rent, paying a mortgage, collecting rent, paying utilities, etc are all CASH FLOW.  Some are negative and some are positive.  

    Is owning your primary, generally, a good investment?  Yes.  Can it be a liability?  Sure, in a general sense.  Technically, I view all property as an asset.  Some are going to be negative assets and some positive.  I see and read about the properties many people on these forums want to buy, and they are taking 3.5% down loans trying to make it work.  Whether it is a primary, a house hack, a rental, etc.  And I think: THAT IS GOING TO COST YOU SO MUCH.

    Owning your own home helps your credit score (better access to cheaper money). It is a forced savings account. It hopefully appreciates. Your "rent" is generally fixed (at least the PI piece). It is a very cheap credit card (HELOC).

    It also costs a lot of money, directly and indirectly.  It can keep you from moving to a higher paying job in a different market.  It can depreciate.  It requires regular work.

    @Evan Polaski

    Thank you! Yes I like to stir the pot a little. 😀

    I find so much investor discussion gets put on “autopilot”. Mantras are repeated and taken as “gospel”. As you well note, owning real estate is GOOD and there are numerous ways to go about it that work. It’s for each investor to figure out what works best for them.

    I’m touched an experienced investor like you sees some merit in my musings. Your firm is an industry leader and I go to the Best Ever Conference every year!

    I know you speak with dozens of investors every week and you probably don't remember but we spoke about 3 years ago as I transitioned from SFR to MF. Excellent to reconnect on BP!

    Arn

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    3y

    Figured throw my 2 cents into the pot

    1. A home is an asset

    2. A mortgage is a liability.

    Arguments that say your home does not cash flow every month - yes that is correct / but name another asset where you can borrow 75% of its value as a loan and that asset appreciates

    The other argument against cash flow

    1. Your 401k does not provide monthly cash flow until 30+ years down the line.

    2. Most stocks do not pay dividends, so those also do not provide cash flow.

    Most generational wealth for current boomers was built through their primary residence when they stayed their for 20+ years

    While personally Ramsey style isn’t for me because I like to think I understand and know how to manage my finances- for many he is not wrong

    7e investments53 Reviews
  • Brady MullenPro Member
    Denver, CO · Member since 2021 · 61 posts · 100 votes
    3y

    I agree with the overall sentiment of the post.  Unless you're going to live outside, you have to choose to rent or own.  When you consider the wealth difference, when all the financial components are accounted for, owning the roof over your head is one of the first foundational wealth-building decisions one can make.

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