Alternatives to Installing Central Air Conditioning

Colorado Springs, Colorado
General Real Estate Investing
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Alternatives to Installing Central Air Conditioning

Garrett D.Pro Member
CO · Member since 2020 · 31 posts · 8 votes

Since it was -10 here yesterday I figured what better time to ask a question of you all regarding AC :).  consider it planning ahead.

We have a SFH in the Highlands neighborhood (what has become a more upscale area) in Denver which currently has a swamp cooler. The swamp cooler is on its last legs and while replacing it is an option, it seems many of the similar SFH's rentals and certainly all the newer apartments in the area now have moved to AC.

My question is - What options do you recommend for the most cost effective install of AC in your rental houses?  Have you gone with Central Air?  I have heard of mini-splits but have no experience?  Are there other options?  Or have you proposed to tenants for them to purchase floor standing units, or possibly provided them yourself  - And if so how have you set such up so they can be vented securely? (some tenants have understandable concerns with having a vent in a window).

I have received a ball park estimate of ~$15 - $17K for Central AC, New Furnace, and New Electric Panel.

We do plan to have a new electric panel installed for other reasons regardless of whether we upgrade to AC or not.  The furnace is 20yrs old but operating fine (with exception that its a little oversized for the house and at least according to one HVAC tech apparently the motor runs on the higher side of normal amps range).  I'd rather leave not replace an operational furnace simply due to age.


Thank you in advance for any and all suggestions/thoughts/considerations/conversations on this topic.  


Garrett

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Jeff WhiteBusiness Member
Realtor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 278 posts · 371 votes
2y

It really depends, as you know in Denver, we don't have extreme summers like places such as Phoenix, so AC isn't necessarily as requirement for sure, basically you really need it in the summer months. 

If you already have a furnace with vents, then adding central AC would be the cheaper option than minisplits. Also, portable AC units and window units jack up your utility bill in the summer, and those can sometimes fry the outlets since they draw a ton of power compared to central AC. 

Since you are located in a premium area, I would definitely recommend adding AC to your single family, it is worth the extra cost vs. fixing the swamp cooler. 

I have a good HVAC guy that can definitely help you. Not sure if you need a full upgrade on your panel.  Feel free to DM me.

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  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    2y

    Also there is an option that maybe @Alan F. could weigh in on...using dampers to create multiple zones in a standard house (with a typical FAU system)...

    1Reply
  • Alan F.
    Flipper/Rehabber · CA · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

    Also there is an option that maybe @Alan F. could weigh in on...using dampers to create multiple zones in a standard house (with a typical FAU system)...


     Its gotta be a dual zone system, then the FAU actually operates as 2 separate HVAC systems. 2 thermostats etc. The challenge with a single zone is dampening raises the static pressure across the fan coil. It literally affects the design of the system and shortens the life of various components.

    Interestingly enough I'm getting dual zone units like Bryant/Goodman for almost the same price and disabling the 2nd zone for future needs, plus the fan coil/fan & capacitor are better quality. To note they have bearings instead of bushings which is better.

    The small non sexy things that affect the envelope are easy DIY type items, but it's slow going.

    A hole behind the thermostat is a big deal because its sensing unconditioned wall space as well as the envelope.

    Every single gang electrical box passes around 1 cubic foot per minute of air, 6 in recessed light even more. Its death by papercuts lol.

    I've got 2 houses that maintain 25 degree splits without any conditioning, BUT they rely on night temps to affect heat saturation. 100 degree nights in AZ would still need more conditioning.

    To note; mini splits certainly do have applications but there's distinctions. I think the DIY splits folks are mentioning are Mr. Cool's, they come with precharged line sets that can be goofed up if not careful. They also have pre-set lengths, so sometimes the line sets are too long, now a coil of extra length has to be "stashed" somewhere.

    Samsungs, Fujitsu's etc still require purge and charge. Personally I think their quality is better.

    For the lurkers keep in mind the higher the voltage, the lower the amps. Current i.e. amps is what people pay for. Also higher voltage circuits allow for lower gauge wire. Ohm's law.

    Don't run mini's without a dedicated circuit! I'd also make sure the circuit is rated at 80% RMS.

    All of the above is also variable when considering that landlords have to weigh out, cost to purchase/install and operating costs (may not care) equity, permits (if done) and occupant comfort plus class of property.

    2Reply
  • Garrett D.Pro Member
    OP
    CO · Member since 2020 · 31 posts · 8 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Tim Jacob:

    If you have a 3 bedroom or more the amount of zones could make a condenser more economic negating install.  When I had mine installed it was about 50% labor don't know if that's the case for mini split.  Also wonder what other costs would be associated like the coil and the heat pump itself and not just the zones which can add up on a large enough place.

      Furthermore if you replace the furnace with a heat pump what sort of actual heat will it produce.  I have seen mini splits work great here is Maryland.  The thing is they only work great in upper unit apartments with a high level of resonant heat from a lower unit.  If there is no heat source from below I would not recommend them as this time if year you will have issues and need to provide additional space heaters.  They do work great for ac or supplemental heat.  If you really want to do that maybe add additional baseboard heaters on the lowest finished level.

    Furnaces in my opinion are a lot more durable and have a longer life than ac and especially since the old freon is so expensive these days.  My furnaces are old 20 plus years old and doing very well and many of the units I manage have ones from the 90s or earlier.  You can tell from the color of the flame.  The gas valve might need to be changed.  If it absolutely needs changing the replacement should last longer than the mini splits.

    Mini splits certainly have their place but not in a  larger ducted unit.  More a smaller unit with ductwork preferably with either supplemental heat from below or in an area of the country that's warmer and I don't think Denver qualifies.



    @Tim Jacob That is good guidance.  Thank you!









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  • Garrett D.Pro Member
    OP
    CO · Member since 2020 · 31 posts · 8 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Alan F.:
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

    Also there is an option that maybe @Alan F. could weigh in on...using dampers to create multiple zones in a standard house (with a typical FAU system)...


     Its gotta be a dual zone system, then the FAU actually operates as 2 separate HVAC systems. 2 thermostats etc. The challenge with a single zone is dampening raises the static pressure across the fan coil. It literally affects the design of the system and shortens the life of various components.

    Interestingly enough I'm getting dual zone units like Bryant/Goodman for almost the same price and disabling the 2nd zone for future needs, plus the fan coil/fan & capacitor are better quality. To note they have bearings instead of bushings which is better.

    The small non sexy things that affect the envelope are easy DIY type items, but it's slow going.

    A hole behind the thermostat is a big deal because its sensing unconditioned wall space as well as the envelope.

    Every single gang electrical box passes around 1 cubic foot per minute of air, 6 in recessed light even more. Its death by papercuts lol.

    I've got 2 houses that maintain 25 degree splits without any conditioning, BUT they rely on night temps to affect heat saturation. 100 degree nights in AZ would still need more conditioning.

    To note; mini splits certainly do have applications but there's distinctions. I think the DIY splits folks are mentioning are Mr. Cool's, they come with precharged line sets that can be goofed up if not careful. They also have pre-set lengths, so sometimes the line sets are too long, now a coil of extra length has to be "stashed" somewhere.

    Samsungs, Fujitsu's etc still require purge and charge. Personally I think their quality is better.

    For the lurkers keep in mind the higher the voltage, the lower the amps. Current i.e. amps is what people pay for. Also higher voltage circuits allow for lower gauge wire. Ohm's law.

    Don't run mini's without a dedicated circuit! I'd also make sure the circuit is rated at 80% RMS.

    All of the above is also variable when considering that landlords have to weigh out, cost to purchase/install and operating costs (may not care) equity, permits (if done) and occupant comfort plus class of property.

    Thank you @Alan F.  There is a lot of valuable info here, thank you for that.  The input from all of those that have graciously provided valuable input and insight above taken together with the considerations of your last sentence provide the framework to make necessary decisions.


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