Replace roof and HVAC?
Investor · Cleveland · Member since 2022 · 13 posts · 8 votes
Replace roof and HVAC?
Most Popular Reply
Melanie P.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 922 votesYes to the roof, yes to using one of the roofer insurance adjusters help you with the claim. We did 18 roofs this way before. Our premiums did go up but it was a half-million dollar claim. In our case we did have recent damage from severe weather but with PLENTY of wear and tear. As stated before do not sign a a contract with any of the roofers until the claim has been approved, you know what you're working with dollar wise and have some competing quotes. You can sign an agreement to use the roofer-adjuster provided their cost does not exceed your best price plus 10% of the claim payout (i.e. typical insurance adjuster rates). Once they get the claim paid a lot of these companies model is to fleece you on the roof.
I would not do the HVAC until it is totally dead. Totally dead to me means we've recharged it and it loses the recharge in the same season. Until that happens topping it up at the start of each year will add another 3-5 years life to it from when you first learn there's an issue.
40 Replies
- Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes2y
If it were mine I would replace the roof, including any roof decking underneath the shingles that need to be replaced, and look into the cost of doing a ridge vent at the top.
As far as the air conditioning system , you might be replacing a well built heavy duty unit with something that has a much shorter service life and instead of using freon it uses some incredibly expensive chemical .
The downside of not replacing it is air conditioning systems fail when it's hot out, when they are needed the most and when it's most unpleasant for the renter to go without air conditioning.
If you install a new one now it will give you some time to get any problems out of the installation.
Sometimes new installs have problems cooling the house correctly or just other problems- so doing it without tenants gives you some time to address any of these issues.
- Investor · Cleveland · Member since 2022 · 13 posts · 8 votes2y
Quote from @Scott Mac:
If it were mine I would replace the roof, including any roof decking underneath the shingles that need to be replaced, and look into the cost of doing a ridge vent at the top.
As far as the air conditioning system , you might be replacing a well built heavy duty unit with something that has a much shorter service life and instead of using freon it uses some incredibly expensive chemical .
The downside of not replacing it is air conditioning systems fail when it's hot out, when they are needed the most and when it's most unpleasant for the renter to go without air conditioning.
If you install a new one now it will give you some time to get any problems out of the installation.
Sometimes new installs have problems cooling the house correctly or just other problems- so doing it without tenants gives you some time to address any of these issues.
I really appreciate the reply.
Yeah my thoughts are that why not take care of these potential problems before a tenant is in there. Hopefully I can get in front of these particular issues and have a lot less to worry about for many years.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes2y
@Dan Frehmeyer
I would replace the roof and hvac if they were at end of life as it appears they are. Replacing hvac during an inopportune time with a tenant is most likely not going to be fun, so I would get it done now
7e investments53 Reviews - Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes2y
If you have shingles missing , thats probably from wind or storm damage . Have a roofer give you their opinion , and make a claim on insurance .
- Investor · Cleveland · Member since 2022 · 13 posts · 8 votes2yI have had multiple roofers say that insurance will replace the whole roof due to that damage. My concern is that I am putting myself in danger of being uninsurable moving forward if I go that route. Am I being unreasonably cautious?
Quote from @Matthew Paul:
If you have shingles missing , thats probably from wind or storm damage . Have a roofer give you their opinion , and make a claim on insurance .
- Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes2y
Quote from @Dan Frehmeyer:
I have had multiple roofers say that insurance will replace the whole roof due to that damage. My concern is that I am putting myself in danger of being uninsurable moving forward if I go that route. Am I being unreasonably cautious?Quote from @Matthew Paul:
If you have shingles missing , thats probably from wind or storm damage . Have a roofer give you their opinion , and make a claim on insurance .
Thats what insurance is for . i have 2 properties that had wind damage , Both were covered , both same insurance company and this was 4 years ago and rates didnt go up much at all . If you are not making claims all the time , you are fine .
DO NOT sign a contract with the roofer until its approved .
- Investor · Cleveland · Member since 2022 · 13 posts · 8 votes2yAwesome great datapoint. I’ve only owned the house since October leading to my concern at all.
Quote from @Matthew Paul:
Quote from @Dan Frehmeyer:
I have had multiple roofers say that insurance will replace the whole roof due to that damage. My concern is that I am putting myself in danger of being uninsurable moving forward if I go that route. Am I being unreasonably cautious?Quote from @Matthew Paul:
If you have shingles missing , thats probably from wind or storm damage . Have a roofer give you their opinion , and make a claim on insurance .
Thats what insurance is for . i have 2 properties that had wind damage , Both were covered , both same insurance company and this was 4 years ago and rates didnt go up much at all . If you are not making claims all the time , you are fine .
DO NOT sign a contract with the roofer until it’s approved .
- 2yOwen RosenBusiness MemberProfessional · Clinton Township, MI · Member since 2015 · 676 posts · 259 votes
Quote from @Dan Frehmeyer:
Awesome great datapoint. I’ve only owned the house since October leading to my concern at all.Quote from @Matthew Paul:
Quote from @Dan Frehmeyer:
I have had multiple roofers say that insurance will replace the whole roof due to that damage. My concern is that I am putting myself in danger of being uninsurable moving forward if I go that route. Am I being unreasonably cautious?Quote from @Matthew Paul:
If you have shingles missing , thats probably from wind or storm damage . Have a roofer give you their opinion , and make a claim on insurance .
Thats what insurance is for . i have 2 properties that had wind damage , Both were covered , both same insurance company and this was 4 years ago and rates didnt go up much at all . If you are not making claims all the time , you are fine .
DO NOT sign a contract with the roofer until it’s approved .
Do you know if you have replacement cost coverage on the roof? Any restrictions on cosmetic matching? Have these contractors seen your insurance policy? Do they know you've only owned it since October? What age did you say the roof was when you purchased the policy? I'd be very surprised if you have full replacement coverage if all of the factors you listed were in play when you purchased the home/policy.
Filing a legitimate claim won't make you uninsurable. It will most likely change your pricing.
Overall, I'd suggest you use common sense. If the roof was damaged by wind since you purchased the home, that should be a covered loss. If the roof is simply old, in bad shape, and in need of replacement, that is not a covered loss. You and or a contractor can try to make it one (and it might work) but you're playing with fire. Anyone telling you otherwise is uninformed or a liar.
Home insurance is NOT a maintenance policy. It's not a warranty or service contract. It's designed to protect you from sudden and accidental losses. Not wear and tear.
Don't be afraid to use your insurance for legitimate claims that are significantly more than your deductible. A claim is a claim. They don't go easy on you for having a smaller payout or hit you harder for a larger one. Claim frequency will impact your pricing more than anything.
Royal Oath Insurance Group4.9203 Reviews - 2yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
Definitely do the roof. I know when I did mine, my insurance went down. For the HVAC, has it been giving you problems?
- 2yCorey ConklinPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2021 · 129 posts · 209 votes
Replace the roof if you have the access to cheap money now and it really is in bad condition but I'd get a few opinions.
I'd get a few opinions on the HVAC. There are a lot of the old units that are built to last unlike the crap they sell today. I've had a few homes with units 25+ years old and they work like a champ. Just because you replace the old working unit with a new unit doesn't guarantee that you won't have break downs in the middle of hot/cold weather. New units break down just as much as the old units.
There's a saying that I learned on the farm growing up "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I catch myself saying it all the time when I come across decisions like the one you're facing now and it's worked pretty well.
- Investor · Ventnor City, NJ · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 34 votes2y
Absolutely- and it sounds like you've answered your own question. Even without the cheap money and the cash flow, I always make the rental as sound and maintenance-free as possible before occupancy. You know you are going to have to fix/ repair soon anyway. Once a tenant is in, those repairs take longer and cost you more money in stress and collateral damage. Suppose, for example, the tenant delays in reporting the leaking roof - then you've got mold, damaged ceilings, etc.
There are other reasons to take care of things upfront. If stuff breaks, even if you can fix it quickly, you still have an irritated tenant. A well- maintained home will likely cause the tenant to view it positively which will cause them to take better care of it and stay longer. You will also rent it faster and probably at a higher rent.
Making your rental as sound as you can before listing it is a win-win for everyone, especially you. Good luck.
- Investor · Cleveland · Member since 2022 · 13 posts · 8 votes2y
Quote from @Theresa Harris:
Definitely do the roof. I know when I did mine, my insurance went down. For the HVAC, has it been giving you problems?
Appreciate the input. The HVAC is functioning fine at the moment. Ive owned the property since October and havent run the AC yet but it was working at the time of purchase.
- Investor · Cleveland · Member since 2022 · 13 posts · 8 votes2y
Quote from @Pat Mulligan:
Absolutely- and it sounds like you've answered your own question. Even without the cheap money and the cash flow, I always make the rental as sound and maintenance-free as possible before occupancy. You know you are going to have to fix/ repair soon anyway. Once a tenant is in, those repairs take longer and cost you more money in stress and collateral damage. Suppose, for example, the tenant delays in reporting the leaking roof - then you've got mold, damaged ceilings, etc.
There are other reasons to take care of things upfront. If stuff breaks, even if you can fix it quickly, you still have an irritated tenant. A well- maintained home will likely cause the tenant to view it positively which will cause them to take better care of it and stay longer. You will also rent it faster and probably at a higher rent.
Making your rental as sound as you can before listing it is a win-win for everyone, especially you. Good luck.
Thank you for the reply! This is my exact thought process. It does feel like its worth it to check these items off the list now and not have them as line items to save for replacement costs. The house will cash flow just fine even with these added costs
- Investor · WNY/CNY/Adirondacks, New York State · Member since 2024 · 151 posts · 133 votes2y
I wouldn't replace the HVAC if it's running fine. Just maintain it and fix it when needed. There's no guarantee a new HVAC will last but the one you have is quality and has lasted more than two decades.
- Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes2y
Quote from @Dan Frehmeyer:
I am currently rehabbing my primary at the moment with plans to rent out this fall. I am doing mostly cosmetic fixes to a SFH currently.
I am looking for thoughts on whether I should be proactive with replacing a 20yr+ old roof (missing shingles, multiple layers, looks terrible) and a 25yr+ old hvac. The water heater was replaced a few months ago.
I have access to very cheap money so my thought is to be proactive with those major expenses before I turn it into a rental. The property will still cash flow with the extra cost of these expenses. Additionally, the house will likely appraise very favorably after as well with a cash out refi a big possibility
Thoughts?
YES replace the roof, about 250- 275 a sq depending on pitch. YES replace the furnace, 1800ish, ASSUMING is about 1k- 1500 sq ft house
- Investor · Cleveland · Member since 2022 · 13 posts · 8 votes2y
Quote from @Bob S.:
Quote from @Dan Frehmeyer:
I am currently rehabbing my primary at the moment with plans to rent out this fall. I am doing mostly cosmetic fixes to a SFH currently.
I am looking for thoughts on whether I should be proactive with replacing a 20yr+ old roof (missing shingles, multiple layers, looks terrible) and a 25yr+ old hvac. The water heater was replaced a few months ago.
I have access to very cheap money so my thought is to be proactive with those major expenses before I turn it into a rental. The property will still cash flow with the extra cost of these expenses. Additionally, the house will likely appraise very favorably after as well with a cash out refi a big possibility
Thoughts?
YES replace the roof, about 250- 275 a sq depending on pitch. YES replace the furnace, 1800ish, ASSUMING is about 1k- 1500 sq ft house
How does one buy a furnace for 1800? Im new so I am asking out of curiosity
- 2yMelanie P.Pro MemberRental Property Investor · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 922 votes
Yes to the roof, yes to using one of the roofer insurance adjusters help you with the claim. We did 18 roofs this way before. Our premiums did go up but it was a half-million dollar claim. In our case we did have recent damage from severe weather but with PLENTY of wear and tear. As stated before do not sign a a contract with any of the roofers until the claim has been approved, you know what you're working with dollar wise and have some competing quotes. You can sign an agreement to use the roofer-adjuster provided their cost does not exceed your best price plus 10% of the claim payout (i.e. typical insurance adjuster rates). Once they get the claim paid a lot of these companies model is to fleece you on the roof.
I would not do the HVAC until it is totally dead. Totally dead to me means we've recharged it and it loses the recharge in the same season. Until that happens topping it up at the start of each year will add another 3-5 years life to it from when you first learn there's an issue.
- Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes2y
Quote from @Dan Frehmeyer:
Quote from @Bob S.:
Quote from @Dan Frehmeyer:
I am currently rehabbing my primary at the moment with plans to rent out this fall. I am doing mostly cosmetic fixes to a SFH currently.
I am looking for thoughts on whether I should be proactive with replacing a 20yr+ old roof (missing shingles, multiple layers, looks terrible) and a 25yr+ old hvac. The water heater was replaced a few months ago.
I have access to very cheap money so my thought is to be proactive with those major expenses before I turn it into a rental. The property will still cash flow with the extra cost of these expenses. Additionally, the house will likely appraise very favorably after as well with a cash out refi a big possibility
Thoughts?
YES replace the roof, about 250- 275 a sq depending on pitch. YES replace the furnace, 1800ish, ASSUMING is about 1k- 1500 sq ft house
How does one buy a furnace for 1800? Im new so I am asking out of curiosity
They don't, they/we pay less, that's the remove and install price :) . Call around you will also get pricing from 300 -400 a sq for roofing. As I have posted 100x, so many get ripped off out there.
- WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes2y$1,800 if he doesn't need to bring anything up to code (or upgrade from downflow to upflow, etc.), and if it's straight out/in install sounds reasonable.
Quote from @Bob S.:
Quote from @Dan Frehmeyer:
Quote from @Bob S.:
Quote from @Dan Frehmeyer:
I am currently rehabbing my primary at the moment with plans to rent out this fall. I am doing mostly cosmetic fixes to a SFH currently.
I am looking for thoughts on whether I should be proactive with replacing a 20yr+ old roof (missing shingles, multiple layers, looks terrible) and a 25yr+ old hvac. The water heater was replaced a few months ago.
I have access to very cheap money so my thought is to be proactive with those major expenses before I turn it into a rental. The property will still cash flow with the extra cost of these expenses. Additionally, the house will likely appraise very favorably after as well with a cash out refi a big possibility
Thoughts?
YES replace the roof, about 250- 275 a sq depending on pitch. YES replace the furnace, 1800ish, ASSUMING is about 1k- 1500 sq ft house
How does one buy a furnace for 1800? Im new so I am asking out of curiosity
They don't, they/we pay less, that's the remove and install price :) . Call around you will also get pricing from 300 -400 a sq for roofing. As I have posted 100x, so many get ripped off out there.
- Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes2y
Quote from @Victor S.:
$1,800 if he doesn't need to bring anything up to code (or upgrade from downflow to upflow, etc.), and if it's straight out/in install sounds reasonable.Quote from @Bob S.:
Quote from @Dan Frehmeyer:
Quote from @Bob S.:
Quote from @Dan Frehmeyer:
I am currently rehabbing my primary at the moment with plans to rent out this fall. I am doing mostly cosmetic fixes to a SFH currently.
I am looking for thoughts on whether I should be proactive with replacing a 20yr+ old roof (missing shingles, multiple layers, looks terrible) and a 25yr+ old hvac. The water heater was replaced a few months ago.
I have access to very cheap money so my thought is to be proactive with those major expenses before I turn it into a rental. The property will still cash flow with the extra cost of these expenses. Additionally, the house will likely appraise very favorably after as well with a cash out refi a big possibility
Thoughts?
YES replace the roof, about 250- 275 a sq depending on pitch. YES replace the furnace, 1800ish, ASSUMING is about 1k- 1500 sq ft house
How does one buy a furnace for 1800? Im new so I am asking out of curiosity
They don't, they/we pay less, that's the remove and install price :) . Call around you will also get pricing from 300 -400 a sq for roofing. As I have posted 100x, so many get ripped off out there.
Simple remove and replace, 1800 ,Yep,
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes2y
@Dan Frehmeyer don't guess, KNOW.
Bring in trusted authorities to inspect, test, and make you informed vs guessing.
The roof, yeah it might be an issue, may make sense to replace. Or, you may be in a target hail prone area and current roof inspects as solid for at least another few years, which hold good chance % of getting hit by hail and thus diminishing your expense ~50% if not more if have right coverage.
HVAC, I NEVER replace an old system for being "old". Most often older the better actually, because manufacturing process's drastically changed and components have a quarter the use span older components have. A forced air unit is just a box of components. And newer ones are made with Engineered Obsolescence. "Old" ones are with the previous theory of build 3em to last and to be repairable. I have seen so many say a "furnace is going out" and think it's requires full replacement when after checking and testing, it was JUST a blower motor, and $400 later, vhullah, runs amazing.
Get informed, BE informed, and make INFORMED decisions. Emotions will LIE to you.
- Real Estate Broker · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2018 · 196 posts · 191 votes2y
@Dan Frehmeyer I’d say preserve the asset at all costs! If you have turn means to do it and still cash flow fix it all. It’s a much better situation than God for this something go wrong and it needs to be replaced and now you have to figure out how you’re going to do it.
- Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes2y
I would replace both so that you have peace of mind and don't need to rush when a roof leak appears or the HVAC stops working. Since you are looking to refinance, it will be favorable.
- Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes2y
Quote from @Bob S.:
Quote from @Dan Frehmeyer:
I am currently rehabbing my primary at the moment with plans to rent out this fall. I am doing mostly cosmetic fixes to a SFH currently.
I am looking for thoughts on whether I should be proactive with replacing a 20yr+ old roof (missing shingles, multiple layers, looks terrible) and a 25yr+ old hvac. The water heater was replaced a few months ago.
I have access to very cheap money so my thought is to be proactive with those major expenses before I turn it into a rental. The property will still cash flow with the extra cost of these expenses. Additionally, the house will likely appraise very favorably after as well with a cash out refi a big possibility
Thoughts?
YES replace the roof, about 250- 275 a sq depending on pitch. YES replace the furnace, 1800ish, ASSUMING is about 1k- 1500 sq ft house
Boy things are cheap where you are . roof is $450 to $600 a sq depending on pitch here in Maryland
- 2yOwen RosenBusiness MemberProfessional · Clinton Township, MI · Member since 2015 · 676 posts · 259 votes
Quote from @Theresa Harris:
Definitely do the roof. I know when I did mine, my insurance went down. For the HVAC, has it been giving you problems?
This is correct. If you replace your roof, notify your insurance and your pricing is likely to decrease. In some cases it might open up better forms of coverage as well.
You will need to provide proof of update.
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