What Would You Do? Frustrated Young Investor...

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What Would You Do? Frustrated Young Investor...

Clay Manship
Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 549 posts · 310 votes

I am 23 years old. And I wish I wasn't. I am an aspiring buy and hold investor, and have already closed on my first property. I make $50,000+ annually, have a 720+ credit score, and no debt. But I am stuck. Here is why:

-I closed my first property on a conventional fixed rate mortgage, 30/30. It was a Fannie Mae loan, and since I closed on it in October, lending parameters have changed so much that no bank will allow me to conventionally purchase an investment property.

-Because I am 23, no portfolio lender will lend to me either. ALL that I have spoken with require at least three (3) years of tax returns indicating a stable job before they pre-qualify me for a loan. They also want to see real estate investing experience, which I can't get due to not qualifying for a conventional mortgage on an investment property.

-Sellers are unwlling to accommodate reasonable seller financing terms with me due to my 1) lack of real estate experience and 2) only having worked in a corporate job for 8 months.

I see you all with multiple properties and questions every day and I envy it so bad. I feel like I am stuck at a glass ceiling that those who are not entry level investors right NOW are unable to see. How do I break through? Any creative strategies? I hope that this post is not misconstrued as whining, because I have been exploring every avenue possible.

For those of you who have been here, please help me break through. I am excited to make this a career, and I was told that my first deal would be the hardest. Just isn't the case right now. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks to all...

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Shawn Holsapple
Residential Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 557 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Adrian DeGraff:
Originally posted by @Shawn Holsapple:
@Clay Manship - I'm jealous at the fact that you have a 20+ year head start on me.
I've found the local small State banks and credit unions being open to helping us investors out.

To get around the needed 25% down one needs - I use private lenders to purchase the property for cash [yes, they are out there] and then do a refi base on 75% LTV of the APPRAISED value instead of purchase price. If you are buying correctly [which I know you are] then you should be able to pay off your private lender and fund the entire project with "no money down". I've done this several times and it works great.

Just so I'm on the same page here. (Cause that's one hell of a magic trick....)

You'd effectively have to find a property with an appraised value of 125% over the foreclosure amount and then you'd start paying a 30 yr mortgage with no equity, but outside the loan, closing costs, etc. you didn't actually pay for the property?

In general, I understand the frustration Clay is facing. Either you have the net worth to start making moves immediately towards building a portfolio or you don't. Most young people fall into that latter category. And yes, you can get creative, but a couple of wrong moves could do years of damage to your credit.

Yes, I believe you have that correct.

Here's a real world opportunity I just completed:

  • Purchase price - $27,000
  • Rehab - $10,000
  • Private lender fees - $1,500 [$750 per month for 2 months]
  • Total invested - $38,500
  • Appraised value after rehab - $53,500
  • 75% LTV loan from bank - $40,125
  • $40,125 - $38,500 = $1,625 equity back in my pocket [tax free by the way]

Most banks will only do a 20 or 15 year "commercial" loan on non-owner occupied homes. My payment is about $230 @ 5.5% APR. Gross rent is $775.

Otherwise, I would have only been able to get 75% of the purchase price $20,250 and that would mean I would need to come up with $16,750 out of pocket. I don't really like that option!

Plus, the private lender loves me because he just made more in 2 months than he normally makes in 2 years on his money.

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  • Misty W.
    Real Estate Investor · Winchester, VA · Member since 2014 · 53 posts · 42 votes
    12y

    I would be looking at creative options. Learn about doing deals subject to and lease options. The sellers in these situations need a solution and don't typically care about your age. Most people think I'm 15-20 years younger than I am, so I get asked a lot in everyday situations, but have never been asked in real estate dealings. As long as you sound like you know what you are doing, there is not an issue. For the other times, pull out your "partner" that has been doing this a long time. This should be a mentor or other local REI member that has been doing it a long time and is available for any questions. Letting someone know you are new isn't a bad thing if they feel like you can always get answers and help when needed.

    1Reply
  • Steven J.
    Urbana, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 425 votes
    12y

    Partner up with other investors. If you've got the money and the approval you can provide the credit and money for an investor and split up the profit.

    Partnering can be the opportunity to build credibility and at the same time learn from someone who knows the business.

    1Reply
  • Jean BolgerPro Member
    Aurora, CO · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    These are all problems (situations, more like) that could happen to a person at any age. You are far too young too develop a persecution complex (OK yes, that's a joke).Banks have their rules and lending requirements for a reason. We all have to live with that, and/or find alternative strategies.

    You have your whole life to build an investment portfolio, and that life is going to come at you faster than you can possibly guess. Keep your eyes and your mind open, and focus on the positive aspects of your situation, which are so plentiful that I'm not even going to bother listing them.

    2Reply
  • Phil Mays
    Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2014 · 20 posts · 2 votes
    12y

    Hi Clay,

    No, age has nothing to do with your inability to get a loan. I'm assuming that the one you closed on was owner occupied. As stated before, banks have their rules which we all have to abide by. Perhaps developing a seller financing strategy that enables you to refi after say, 3 years. This gives you the "landlord experience". I've seen land contracts work well but you would need to focus on properties owned free and clear to avoid the due on sale clause. But with rates as low as they are, you can negotiate a much lower rate with a seller. Good luck!

    0Reply
  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Clay Manship:
    I am 23 years old. And I wish I wasn't.

    I am older than 23 and I would trade you my age for yours with all the knowledge I have right now. :)

    There are ways to invest without banks. Have you just investigated 30 year conventional lenders? What about all the portfolio lenders -- you've contacted some, but sometimes you have to make 50 phone calls? What about more creative finance such as peer-to-peer or seller financing? Doesn't Indy have relatively cheap houses that you could buy, renovate, and rent out?

    Podcast Guest on Show #29
    1Reply
  • Paul Wurster
    Investor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2014 · 129 posts · 79 votes
    12y
    Get recommended to a banker by someone in your local REIA.
    2Reply
  • Mark Ferguson
    Flipper/Rehabber · Greeley, CO · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    23 is a blessing not a hindrance. You are getting started much younger than most and even if you can't buy a house for a year or two you can perfect your strategy and save money in that time.

    My portfolio lender requires two years taxes or a relationship. When I first talked to my portfolio lender I was annoyed they wanted me to move all my accounts over to them. A year later I happily moved everything over and never looked back. You need to talk to every portfolio lender you can find, pick the best one. Move all your accounts over to them and talk them on a regular basis. Let them know you are serious and eventually they may relax on some of their guidelines.

    I am curious how you got a loan with only one month on the job at the time? You say you bought a house in October, but have only been on the job for 8 months?

    2Reply
  • Clay Manship
    OP
    Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 549 posts · 310 votes
    12y

    @Mark Ferguson

    I often ask myself the same question--ha. Got lucky I guess. I applied for a conventional mortgage that did not have a minimum loan amount and got preapproved for an investment property. I bought a 3 BR 2 BA house for $24,000 on a 30/30 conventional mortgage. It rents for $650...so needless to say it has been a great purchase. And I actually CLOSED on my property literally 10 weeks after I started my first time job. My twin brother tried to do the same thing a month ago and was told lending parameters had changed and probably would remain the same for some time.

    I have spoken with a dozen portfolio lenders. I have even been referred to them by other investors I have met. It just seems as if nobody wants to break away from the YEARS of tax returns. I have however been told that if I can provide some extra collateral, as well as put one of my parents on the hook as a cosigner, they may work with me. It irks me to death.

    @Dawn Anastasi I have been exploring all kinds of seller financing options, as that seems to be the most promising way to proceed thus far. In my area, however, sellers charge 125% of market comps, 30% down, and 12% interest rates for their homes on contract. Things just don't make sense at those absurd prices.

    It has been an incredible learning experience thus far, just really frustrating. At this point, I have the OPPOSITE of the "analysis paralysis" I had a year ago. I want to acquire, and will keep working to do so. Your responses have been great so far. Keep them coming!

    0Reply
  • Jay C.
    Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 308 posts · 170 votes
    12y

    Clay,

    Take a big breath. You are so far ahead of the game with that great job and already a property. In time you will save money if you live in your means and will be able to buy another. Dont be in such a hurry cause its not all wine and roses. Many of the posts you see here on BP are from people who are doing well. Many of these posts are from people who are going to fail. More has never been better. Remember that. All that leverage you see in so many posts is what cratered housing a few years back along with those folks. How soon many forget. Be patient, the world will come to all in good time.

    2Reply
  • Anthony GaydenPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    I have found a ton of ways to finance a property since I joined this site. I bought my first property as an investment property and put 25% down with a conventional mortgage. Hopefully that will be the last time I put down that much of my own money on a property.

    My next property will be an owner occupied 4 plex and I'm using FHA 203K with 3.5% down. After that I still have enough credit to squeeze out an inexpensive ( less than $100,000) property or two through traditional financing before switching to different techniques.

    There are some banks that will allow you to use your rental property income as part of your personal income sooner than three years.

    Podcast Guest on Show #21
    0Reply
  • Clay Manship
    OP
    Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 549 posts · 310 votes
    12y

    @Anthony Gayden

    I did the same thing--how funny. My first deal was 25% down as an investment property. I have toyed with the idea of dabbling into a 4-plex that is owner occupied, it seems to be a good way to at least start getting doors going all at once.

    I am currently working on seller financing deals and trying to close them up. It just seems like those who offer seller financing often want WAY too much for their property in regards to price and terms. Anyone else have suggestions or experience?

    0Reply
  • Anthony GaydenPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Clay Manship:
    @Anthony Gayden

    I did the same thing--how funny. My first deal was 25% down as an investment property. I have toyed with the idea of dabbling into a 4-plex that is owner occupied, it seems to be a good way to at least start getting doors going all at once.

    I am currently working on seller financing deals and trying to close them up. It just seems like those who offer seller financing often want WAY too much for their property in regards to price and terms. Anyone else have suggestions or experience?

    Honestly, the owner occupied route seems like a good path to take, I'm doing it myself. It is a very low amount of money down, and the 203K allows you to make repairs and do work on the property. This will help you add value, and hopefully lead to higher rents being paid. I believe you only have to owner occupy for 1 year, then you can do the process again with another 4-plex. Meanwhile your tenants are paying your mortgage and you are living for free, and maybe even making a little money. You will be able to save/invest even more money if you aren't paying housing costs.

    Podcast Guest on Show #21
    0Reply
  • Brian Gibbons
    Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Clay Manship:
    @Anthony Gayden

    I did the same thing--how funny. My first deal was 25% down as an investment property. I have toyed with the idea of dabbling into a 4-plex that is owner occupied, it seems to be a good way to at least start getting doors going all at once.

    I am currently working on seller financing deals and trying to close them up. It just seems like those who offer seller financing often want WAY too much for their property in regards to price and terms. Anyone else have suggestions or experience?

    Hi Clay,

    Regarding people offering seller financing, they're usually investors who want way too much the property.

    Some ideas:

    One, buy a list through list source or Melissa data, houses bought at the top of the market, 2006 to 2008, and get postcards out to them. Talk about asking them to sell even if they have little equity. Do not discuss how you you propose to help them. The marketing piece should talk about their problem, not your solution.

    Two, find landlords that have houses for rent, and offer seller financing.

    Three, Dr. listed houses and give them a piece that talks about lease to own instead of selling with an agent, where they can make more money by selling on terms.

    Four, expired listings, knock on their door, and ask them if they would like to sell the property privately. Then show them their choices: sell w and agent, rent it out, sell on terms.

    Five, look for FSBOs and ask if they would consider selling on rent to own. Fast sale and full price.

    I like subject to and lease option assignments which I have written extensively on bigger pockets about. Best of luck to you.

    1Reply
  • Aaron A.
    Long Island City, NY · Member since 2014 · 19 posts · 2 votes
    12y

    @Clay Manship - have you tried commerical loans? I don't think that they use the Fannie Mae criteria for underwriting. Even if you are looking at a property with 4 units or less, you can use commercial loans to purchase the property.

    0Reply
  • Shawn Holsapple
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 557 votes
    12y

    @Clay Manship - I'm jealous at the fact that you have a 20+ year head start on me.

    I've found the local small State banks and credit unions being open to helping us investors out.

    To get around the needed 25% down one needs - I use private lenders to purchase the property for cash [yes, they are out there] and then do a refi base on 75% LTV of the APPRAISED value instead of purchase price. If you are buying correctly [which I know you are] then you should be able to pay off your private lender and fund the entire project with "no money down". I've done this several times and it works great.

    I've also opened a personal line of credit at any bank that would give it to me. Even it's only a few thousand, you can build it up by pulling it out every 6 weeks or so and then putting back in a few days later. You only have to pay a few dollars in interest while building up a track record. After 4-6 months, request an increase. Rinse and repeat. After a year or so, you should have several thousand available at a moments notice for purchases or down payments.

    To supplement that, I use the 0% balance transfer offers from credit cards. I simply write a check to my LLC for the full "balance transfer" and use that money for free during the offer period - usually 12-18 months.

    NOTE: This takes discipline. DO NOT go to Vegas, buy a car or take a vacation with these funds! Read Rich Dad Poor Dad for examples of good and bad debt.

    I hope that helps.

    1Reply
  • Matthew Baumberger
    Manchester, CT · Member since 2013 · 14 posts · 3 votes
    12y

    Try a private lender and purchase the property with cash.

    0Reply
  • Ryan Shuchman
    Rental Property Investor · Ann Arbor, MI · Member since 2013 · 55 posts · 4 votes
    12y

    If I was 23 with no wife/no kids/no huge pile of junk to move I would be buying owner occupied, fixing up at night, and moving in 9 to 12 months. Rinse and repeat. 23 isn't a problem its a gift.

    0Reply
  • Bob E.
    Queen Creek, AZ · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    If I was 23 again and seeing property at a 24k purchase price and renting for $650 a month I would move into my moms basement, walk to work, and eat roman noodles until I could buy 2-3 more. At that point the cash flow would buy another house every year or two. With no mortgages you would have awesome cash flow to cover any vacancies or maintenance.

    1Reply
  • Adrian DeGraff
    Cary, NC · Member since 2014 · 21 posts · 3 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Shawn Holsapple:
    @Clay Manship - I'm jealous at the fact that you have a 20+ year head start on me.

    I've found the local small State banks and credit unions being open to helping us investors out.

    To get around the needed 25% down one needs - I use private lenders to purchase the property for cash [yes, they are out there] and then do a refi base on 75% LTV of the APPRAISED value instead of purchase price. If you are buying correctly [which I know you are] then you should be able to pay off your private lender and fund the entire project with "no money down". I've done this several times and it works great.

    Just so I'm on the same page here. (Cause that's one hell of a magic trick....)

    You'd effectively have to find a property with an appraised value of 125% over the foreclosure amount and then you'd start paying a 30 yr mortgage with no equity, but outside the loan, closing costs, etc. you didn't actually pay for the property?

    In general, I understand the frustration Clay is facing. Either you have the net worth to start making moves immediately towards building a portfolio or you don't. Most young people fall into that latter category. And yes, you can get creative, but a couple of wrong moves could do years of damage to your credit.

    0Reply
  • Shawn Holsapple
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 557 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Adrian DeGraff:
    Originally posted by @Shawn Holsapple:
    @Clay Manship - I'm jealous at the fact that you have a 20+ year head start on me.
    I've found the local small State banks and credit unions being open to helping us investors out.

    To get around the needed 25% down one needs - I use private lenders to purchase the property for cash [yes, they are out there] and then do a refi base on 75% LTV of the APPRAISED value instead of purchase price. If you are buying correctly [which I know you are] then you should be able to pay off your private lender and fund the entire project with "no money down". I've done this several times and it works great.

    Just so I'm on the same page here. (Cause that's one hell of a magic trick....)

    You'd effectively have to find a property with an appraised value of 125% over the foreclosure amount and then you'd start paying a 30 yr mortgage with no equity, but outside the loan, closing costs, etc. you didn't actually pay for the property?

    In general, I understand the frustration Clay is facing. Either you have the net worth to start making moves immediately towards building a portfolio or you don't. Most young people fall into that latter category. And yes, you can get creative, but a couple of wrong moves could do years of damage to your credit.

    Yes, I believe you have that correct.

    Here's a real world opportunity I just completed:

    • Purchase price - $27,000
    • Rehab - $10,000
    • Private lender fees - $1,500 [$750 per month for 2 months]
    • Total invested - $38,500
    • Appraised value after rehab - $53,500
    • 75% LTV loan from bank - $40,125
    • $40,125 - $38,500 = $1,625 equity back in my pocket [tax free by the way]

    Most banks will only do a 20 or 15 year "commercial" loan on non-owner occupied homes. My payment is about $230 @ 5.5% APR. Gross rent is $775.

    Otherwise, I would have only been able to get 75% of the purchase price $20,250 and that would mean I would need to come up with $16,750 out of pocket. I don't really like that option!

    Plus, the private lender loves me because he just made more in 2 months than he normally makes in 2 years on his money.

    4Reply
  • Clay Manship
    OP
    Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 549 posts · 310 votes
    12y

    @Shawn Holsapple

    Have always appreciated your insight, Shawn. I have always thought that finding a private lender to front the capital necessary would be the way to go, I am just having a hard time convincing potential investors that they should loan me at 125% LTV when I have no track record of that kind of success.

    I have been in contact with the Credit Union you referred me to, but they have been very stringent on providing three years of tax returns, etc. They are things that I don't have and are out of my control. So hopefully we can do business down the road, but right now I am probably moving forward with the first bank/credit union who can see my unique situation.

    Also, Shawn, do you use a contractor or are you doing these repairs yourself? How are you sourcing your deals? Feel free to send me a PM as well--many thanks!

    0Reply
  • Clay Manship
    OP
    Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 549 posts · 310 votes
    12y

    @Adrian DeGraff

    What @Shawn Holsapple is doing is common. He is essentially creating value (and therefore, equity) by improving the property he buys. However, he is doing this using someone else's money, so he has "0% down" and can refinance out his private investor after the repairs are made, and equity is added.

    Basically, if Shawn can make a deal where 75% of his ARV can pay off his private investor in full, he is good to go. Obviously he would want a smaller percentage to pay off the investor in whole so he can either put some money in his pocket via a cash-out finance, or leave equity in the property, but either way this is what makes the deals go.

    My struggle (and possibly yours too) is trying to convince an individual to front the cost of the home purchase in cash, as well as the repair costs in cash, in hopes that we can then take that ARV and refinance them out of the deal completely, I'm sure I will get there eventually, as this is ideally the deals I want to be doing. In the mean time I am trying to figure out how to establish deals and credibility.

    0Reply
  • Brian Gibbons
    Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Clay Manship:
    @Adrian DeGraff

    What @Shawn Holsapple is doing is common. He is essentially creating value (and therefore, equity) by improving the property he buys. However, he is doing this using someone else's money, so he has "0% down" and can refinance out his private investor after the repairs are made, and equity is added.

    Basically, if Shawn can make a deal where 75% of his ARV can pay off his private investor in full, he is good to go. Obviously he would want a smaller percentage to pay off the investor in whole so he can either put some money in his pocket via a cash-out finance, or leave equity in the property, but either way this is what makes the deals go.

    My struggle (and possibly yours too) is trying to convince an individual to front the cost of the home purchase in cash, as well as the repair costs in cash, in hopes that we can then take that ARV and refinance them out of the deal completely, I'm sure I will get there eventually, as this is ideally the deals I want to be doing. In the mean time I am trying to figure out how to establish deals and credibility.

    Clay, have you been to a REIA meeting?

    Have you tried to find private lenders? REIs to mentor from?

    This is a team sport, not solo, and you need to find team members. Get to the REIAs.

    Read about Self directed iras

    http://www.amazon.com/IRA-Wealth-Revolutionary-Strategies-Investment/dp/0757000940

    Read about the Private Banker Concept through TrustEtc.com, my favorite custodian.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/lubeo04p7o5d8rk/PrivateBank_2011_Final.pdf

    Once you understand the Custodians, Prohibited Transactions, Disqualified Persons, etc, you can give speeches to Rotary, Lions, Chambers, etc. about Main Street vs Wall St. Investments.

    People will fund projects to newbies if you can market for great deals.

    I would find a partner that is a great marketer for motivated sellers, and you go get the funding.

    Drilling this down,

    Master SDIRAs - see links above

    Go give speeches about the basics - Get a good rate of return with real estate security. Compare CD rates with volitility of Wall Street Mutual Funds and Stocks (Enron, etc) to SDIRA Private 1st mortgages.

    Hook up with wholesalers for JV deals - they get the property under contract, you get the funding.

    Hope that helps.

    -------------------------------------------------------

    Other ways -

    JV with Sellers on a light rehab for a quick $5K to $10K.

    JV with Doctors - Credit Partner - Money Partner

    See my post on this thread

    http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/125303

    1Reply
  • Rick H.
    Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    Clay - I, too, was 23 when I started--in 1978.

    Eerily, these times remind me very much of the Carter years, uncontrolled spending and the certainty of inflation on the horizon. The major difference was the higher interest rates that took some years to get under check during the Volker era.

    So, any real estate that you can control for the long run will likely pay you handsome dividends later. However, it's hard to get excited about a game of patience when you're 23. I remember how anxious I was to get going, too.

    A lot of people, both here and elsewhere, will give you advice as to what you should do. I won't do that. I will tell you that I wasted some years trying to chase the wrong kind of deals, or to be mire accurate, deals that were marginal.

    I got my agents license in 1978, didn't hang it with a broker, and tried to wing it, without any real guidance or accountability. For me, I think that was a mistake. Although I did obtain my broker's license in 1991, I fiddle-farted around while I worked at a corporate career that I hated, but didn't have the courage to quit, becoming addicted to a paycheck. I call the 1980's my lost decade.

    I wish I had: learned more about real estate title; had developed more discipline in buying criteria; found a group of active investors to connect with (perhaps Jack Miller?); had a better plan. Woulda-coulda-shoulda.

    As it turned out, I discovered a niche, entirely by accident and the gift of desperation, that has served me well. When starting out, it's pretty hard to imagine what your specialty might be when you are, hopefully, checking out various area of real estate, both as investor or in the business.

    So, I invite you to look at every aspect of real estate and learn everything that you can and become a sponge. You will learn tools that you will not know if you need them until much later.

    And to quote my buddy Mike Cantu, "if you will do what others will not do for five years, you can do what others can't do for the rest of your life."

    1Reply
  • Jason Hull
    Investor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2014 · 23 posts · 10 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Mark Ferguson:
    23 is a blessing not a hindrance. You are getting started much younger than most and even if you can't buy a house for a year or two you can perfect your strategy and save money in that time.

    This.

    You're making $50k a year. Hopefully you get a raise each year, but let's assume you don't. You bought a place that required 50% of your income. Let's say that you have a 15% tax rate, so you keep $42,500 per year. If you can save 25% of your income, you could buy one of those properties every approximately 2 years and 3 months free and clear. Use 50% of the net income from the property to add to the war fund, and lather, rinse, and repeat.

    You only need 6 1/2 houses free and clear for 50% of your annual rents (at the same numbers/rates) to buy you another free and clear property every year. You could reach 40 with 10 or so free and clear rental properties if you're patient and disciplined.

    Hello PIRE.

    Not many people will be in that position at 40 or at 80.

    1Reply
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