Hold or Sell help (Real Decision)

Hold or Sell help (Real Decision)

Member since 2018 · 11 posts · 3 votes

Looking for outside opinions on a hold vs. sell decision. Here's the full picture:

The property:

Single-family, 3bd/2ba, ~1,650 sqft, built 2021, Hernando County, FL

Purchased 2021 for ~$192-195k, 20% down.

Current estimated value: $260-280k (getting an actual listing estimate soon)

The problem:

Rent has been flat at $1,745 for 5 years. Feels like a hard local ceiling, not particularly a management issue (though I think they could do better in reducing vacancy by pre-listing the home and searching for tenants before it goes vacant/the prior lease is over). And while rent is stagnating, FL tax and insurance is rising.

Turnover has been almost every year (4 of the last 5 years). Vacancy + placement fee runs ~2 months' rent each time.

No obvious value-add lever. Since it's a newer build, there's nothing to renovate that would meaningfully move rent.

The longer I hold, the closer I march towards those more costly capex issues like more flooring replacements, AC, water heater, etc. And the further away I march from the post 2020 appreciation surge and subsequent settling.

The numbers (return on current equity, not original investment):

Cash flow:

Gross rent: $1,745/mo ($20,940/yr)

After a ~7% PM fee: $1,645/mo ($19,740/yr)

Mortgage (PITI): $1,128/mo ($13,536/yr) — $300 principal / $408 interest / ~$420 escrow

Raw cash flow before turnover/capex: $517/mo ($6,204/yr)

Turnover cost:

~2 months' rent per turnover (vacancy + placement fee) ≈ $3,246. I put this into a weighted average since I've had turnover the last 4/5 years: $2,597/yr

Capex reserve of 8-10% of gross rent: ~$1,900/yr

Net annual cash flow: $6,204 − $2,597 − $1,900 ≈ $1,707/yr

Principal paydown: $300/mo = $3,600/yr

Total annual return: $1,707 + $3,600 = ~$5,300/yr

Equity: $120,000-140,000 (loan balance $140k @ 3.5%, est. sale $260-280k)

ROE: ~$5,300 ÷ $130k ≈ 4.1% (range 3.8-4.4%)

If I self-managed and shopped for better insurance, I could potentially bump this up to a 5.3-5.9% ROE.

Other factors:

I have an old business judgment (~$105k, uncollectible for 5 years) I could potentially claim as a bad debt loss the same year I sell, offsetting most of the capital gains tax, pending my CPA confirming it's independently triggerable this year.

What I'm asking you all for help with:

Does a ~4-5.5% ROE with rent-capped upside sound like "sell" to you, or am I missing an angle in favor of holding? Should I be using a different metric to measure it? I've felt I should always be asking "how well is my current money performing," and ROE seems like a good metric for that. And yet that actual ROE number can fluctuate wildly if I don't have turnover or all my appliances hold up in a given year (a miracle!), making the investment performance swing wildly in a given direction.

Has anyone dealt with a similar rent-ceiling situation in a newer-build FL submarket? Did it ever break?

I know some of this is emotional rather than rational, but since cash-flowing FL properties are hard to find right now, part of me feels like I'd be giving up a "good find," even though the actual 5-year performance doesn't support that feeling. There's also a generational piece: I've always wanted to be a buy-and-hold guy, and it's hard not to think about what I'm passing up for my kids by selling, like I'm taking away a generational asset/opportunity from them. But when the return is barely ahead of a savings account (in part to how well it's managed) and yet comes with real landlord headaches on top, I'm having trouble justifying holding on emotion alone.

Maybe I'm missing something; I'm open to pushback. A tenant just moved out, completely trashing the carpet and walls, so I've been in a mind tunnel going back and forth between holding/selling, something that's been on my mind for a bit.

Thanks!
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Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
1mo

Annual turnovers of a 3 BR is highly unusual, even in "bad" neighborhoods. A two month cost for each is ridiculous. Add your statement about the most recent move out condition, seems obvious your PM is not properly marketing and/or properly screening applicants. 

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  • Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    1mo

    Annual turnovers of a 3 BR is highly unusual, even in "bad" neighborhoods. A two month cost for each is ridiculous. Add your statement about the most recent move out condition, seems obvious your PM is not properly marketing and/or properly screening applicants. 

  • Aaron ZimmermanBusiness Member
    Accountant · Chicago, IL · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1mo
    It seems like you want to sell. I would sell because your cash flow is going to decrease every year because you can’t raise rents. Before selling, I would really look to understand why your previous residents left. Perhaps there’s an issue with the unit that you’re unaware of.
  • Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    1mo

    Try a different PM? I have exclusively 3-4 bed SFR. In almost 30 years my average tenant stays over 6 years. The shortest ever was 2.5 years when they bought a house. Either the PM is screening poorly or there's a problem with the house or neighborhood. Maybe a bunch of loud dogs, a bad neighbor, or "kids" riding gas powered bike/atvs around, something. Unless the house is destroyed the turnover should be about a month. Your numbers get much better if you remove half the turnover.

    OTOH: if you want to sell, sell. I have a couple properties I want to sell because of the neighborhood or the HOA, the property itself, or the tenants.so every year I just raise the rent $100/mo above what I think it should be. It's like bonus money for dealing with it/them. Are you still getting appreciation? Are you going to be done with real estate if you sell? Are you going to make a lot higher return with the money? You're probably going to pay 10% of your equity maybe over 15% in selling costs. So if you can do 3% better it will still take 5 years to break even if you're achieving zero appreciation and a new PM can't fix your problem.

    Lastly, what’s your current interest rate> the property may be irreplaceable, at least in your local market if you have to pay 2-3% higher interest.  It’s your call. Let us know what you decide. 

    • Member since 2018 · 11 posts · 3 votes
      1mo
      Quote from @Bill B.:

      Try a different PM? I have exclusively 3-4 bed SFR. In almost 30 years my average tenant stays over 6 years. The shortest ever was 2.5 years when they bought a house. Either the PM is screening poorly or there's a problem with the house or neighborhood. Maybe a bunch of loud dogs, a bad neighbor, or "kids" riding gas powered bike/atvs around, something. Unless the house is destroyed the turnover should be about a month. Your numbers get much better if you remove half the turnover.

      OTOH: if you want to sell, sell. I have a couple properties I want to sell because of the neighborhood or the HOA, the property itself, or the tenants.so every year I just raise the rent $100/mo above what I think it should be. It's like bonus money for dealing with it/them. Are you still getting appreciation? Are you going to be done with real estate if you sell? Are you going to make a lot higher return with the money? You're probably going to pay 10% of your equity maybe over 15% in selling costs. So if you can do 3% better it will still take 5 years to break even if you're achieving zero appreciation and a new PM can't fix your problem.

      Lastly, what’s your current interest rate> the property may be irreplaceable, at least in your local market if you have to pay 2-3% higher interest.  It’s your call. Let us know what you decide. 

      Thanks for the reply! I think the last three tenants moved for job related reasons. I've never heard any complaints. Perhaps the PM isn't doing good in seeking people with long-running employment that might be a good predictor of a longer stay. I'll have two other rentals if I sell this one. I have gotten appreciation on the property in the five years it's been built, an average of 6%, but that was a post 2020 thing; things have slowed down quite a bit.

      If I sold, I was going to plan for something more passive and diversified, like a total market index fund, so I don't have so much idiosyncratic risk being heavy in FL real estate in proportion to my net worth.

      I'm impressed with your tenant history! Across four properties I've ever owned over 7 years, the longest tenant stay has been three years. And it's not like I'm raising rent up or anything. If I keep this property, I think I will try a different PM to place a tenant.

  • Lender · Tampa/Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2014 · 356 posts · 148 votes
    1mo

    I think you're looking at it the right way. I'm personally going through this on my own portfolio.

    The 3.5% rate is definitely worth something, but if rents have been flat for years, turnover is constant, and taxes/insurance keep climbing, I don't think selling is a crazy decision, especially if you have a better place to put the equity.

    Also, I have an agent in Hernando who works almost exclusively with investors. He actually went through this same exercise recently and ended up selling his own rentals after running the numbers. If you decide to explore selling, I'd be happy to connect you with him for a second opinion on value and strategy.

  • Dave FosterBusiness Member
    Qualified Intermediary for 1031 Exchanges · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    1mo

    @Joshua Cook, unfortunately, there are lots of investors who find themselves in this same position: you're not drowning, but the waters are rising, and you're not sure when to pull the life raft. If you think holding onto the property will ultimately be a burden and decide to sell the property, you could do a 1031 exchange.

    A 1031 exchange allows you to defer all of the tax and depreciation recapture and reinvest it into any type of investment property, even out of state if your market isn't favorable. You mentioned leaving something for your children to inherit and enjoy. That's exactly the thinking that causes investors to continue their 1031 journey to retirement.

    Investors will many times 1031 till they retire and pass away. The tax will go away, and their children or grandchildren will inherit the property/properties at a stepped-up basis, so they won't have to pay any tax either. That's a pretty nice gift to the kiddos!

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  • Ashish AcharyaBusiness Member
    CPA, CFP®, PFS · FL · Member since 2017 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1mo

    Based on what you shared, a 4–5% ROE isn't terrible, but it's also not a slam dunk, especially if you're dealing with frequent turnover, rising insurance and taxes, and there's no obvious way to increase rents or add value. At that point, I'd compare this property against what the same $120k–$140k of equity could realistically earn in another investment after accounting for selling costs and taxes.

    One thing I'd be careful about is the tax side before making a decision. Selling could trigger capital gains tax and depreciation recapture, although your potential bad debt deduction may change that equation if your CPA confirms it's available this year. That's one of those situations where running the numbers before listing the property can make a meaningful difference.

    Personally, I wouldn't let the "I've owned it for years" mindset drive the decision. I'd let the after-tax numbers decide. If another investment can produce a meaningfully better return with similar or less risk, it may be time to move the equity.

    Happy to connect!

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